How to read the output of vis viewer?

(Shaderman) #1

Hi!

I can’t find some documentation about the vis viewer :confused: Could someone please point me to some howto/tutorial or explain how to read such an nice, colourful output please?

Thanks,

Shaderman[/img]

(]UBC[ McNite) #2

Fancy stuff… could be a screenshot from Stanley Kubricks 2001 (the LSD trip at the end).
What is it good for?

(kamikazee) #3

Hmmm… I didn’t remember it coloured the 2d window as well.

You can’t really ‘read’ it in a map as complex as this, better use the 3d window to fly around and find small vis portals.
As you probably know, too much portals are bad for bsp size. By flying around you can spot zones with serious portal clustering. If you encounter such zones you’ll need to find out what brush is causing it and probably make it detail. Of course, you’ll need to fix the hull if you’re detailing brushes at the edges of your map…

(Shaderman) #4

Thanks for replying kamikazee.

I think the 3d view shows something like r_showtris 2 in game. First I thought the colours would maybe show the amount of tris for each portal, but colours and portals don’t seem to coincide. After playing around with the vis viewer again, I think those colours are only helpers for the 3d view. It’s sometimes hard to see which tris you see at which distance in 3d view. But if you see some yellow coloured tris for example, you can use the 2d view to see where they are located.

As you probably know, too much portals are bad for bsp size. By flying around you can spot zones with serious portal clustering. If you encounter such zones you’ll need to find out what brush is causing it and probably make it detail. Of course, you’ll need to fix the hull if you’re detailing brushes at the edges of your map…

Yes, I’m aware of the number of portals and the resulting bsp size. But I’m working with blocksize 0 and try to a) optimize the map for maximum fps b) keep the number of portals low and clear :slight_smile:

Shaderman

(kamikazee) #5

It’s not the tris you’re viewing. It truly are the portals.

I’ll show some screens to show the difference in the just-decompiled headshot map and when I re-detailed everything.

(]UBC[ McNite) #6

Hmmm respect to using blocksize 0, i bet that s not making things easier.

However all I used was showtris 2 and when you are in the map that was really showing me all I needed cuz I kept the structurals as simple as possible. I tried the -safeprt once and it gave me nothing.
There also is an option in the q3map2 which will mark all sides of the leafnodes with a slightly white transparent “texture”, and I found that a lot more useful than the prt-viewer.

(kamikazee) #7

Well, it’s quite the same, except you 're actually in game and can use your other stuff like r_showtris and r_lockpvs (the last one is the one you’re looking for to find excessive visibility, and low fps problems.)

However, the nice feature of the portalviewer is that you can see where the problem is and fix it at the same time. You still need to think what portals will be visible from that one you’re in if you’re working in the editor, but that doesn’t hurt.

(EB) #8

I think he understands that portion despite the confusion with the terms he’d chosen for explanation.

EDITED** I can not even load my vis viewer as it crashes my program. (this is not the PRT VIEWER)

@ Shaderman…what radiant version are you using ?

(Shaderman) #9

Now I’m even more confused :moo:

I’ll show some screens to show the difference in the just-decompiled headshot map and when I re-detailed everything.

It would be nice if you could clarify it with some pictures and valorize this forum :wink:

However, the nice feature of the portalviewer is that you can see where the problem is and fix it at the same time.

That’s true. I try to block vis with antiportal where possible and have to see which parts of my map are gone “by accident” again in game (aren’t visible because those damn antiportals can give nasty side effects if you don’t arrange them carefully).

If you use the default (or any other “best fitting”) blocksize, you may for sure have good results. But I’m working on a map for competition and want the maximum of performance (fps) where possible in this early build stage and loose those fps later again with more details :smiley: It’s not the bsp size which I try to reduce (IMO it’s a nice side effect when you’re working with blocksize 0 and don’t have too many unnecessary portals).

@EB
I’m using 1.4.0. And yes, I think I’ve got the point now. I think I only was confused by those colours that are used by the vis viewer (thought every colour would have a special meaning).

Thanks for your help guys!

Shaderman

(kamikazee) #10

ARGH!
:banghead:

Ok, you were talking about the vis viewer, I was talking about the PRT Viewer.

The colors do seem to mean something though, I’m looking into it. Since ‘my’ headshot map contains 1 isolated portal for the intermission screen, I can try out some stuff there. At first sight it seems it colors the tri’s which are part of more then 1 portal.
The color seems to origin from the portal it’s the most located in.

(Shaderman) #11

Hehe. This one is yours: :moo:

At first sight it seems it colors the tri’s which are part of more then 1 portal. The color seems to origin from the portal it’s the most located in.

Interesting. I’m still at work but will have a look at this later at home.

(EB) #12

I think there was confusion between PRT viewer and Vis viewer. I may be wrong though.

Edit- I was typing this while you guys were posting-EDIT

(Shaderman) #13

No, only too late. Here’s one for you EB: :moo:
:smiley:

(FireFly) #14

just wondering: atm i’m still using radiant 1.3.13 , and it doesn’t contain any vis-viewer, only the prt-viewer… what version of radiant are you all using that does contain this vis-viewer?

(kamikazee) #15

Mine here is 1.4.0 build 21/12/2003 (21 December)

It comes with Bobtoolz.

(EB) #16

I think the best bet on receiving a full explanation would be to await a reply from SCDS_ReyalP.

@ Shaderman : back at yA !!! :moo:

(kamikazee) #17

I just came to the same conclusion SCDS_ReyalIP should know how it works…
http://www.splashdamage.com/index.php?name=pnPHPbb2&file=viewtopic&highlight=vis+viewer&p=29550#29550

(Sometimes you’d ask yourself what he doesn’t know or can’t find out)

(FireFly) #18

It comes with Bobtoolz.

Aah, found it: it’s also in the version I am using (1.3.13) :smiley:

Just played with it, but it doesn’t make any sense to me: I can’t understand what the colors I am getting when I select differnt brushes do represent…

I agree ; SCDS_ReyalP might have an explanation how to work with the vis-viewer?

(SCDS_reyalP) #19

It should show you what tris are visible from the selected entity. I don’t really know much about how it works, the only change I made was to allow it to read accept version 47 (RTCW and ET) .bsp files.

From a very quick look, the colors look like they have something to do with what cluster the surfaces associated with or something… There’s only 6 colors used, so they repeat.

Note that vis viewer (as the name suggests) works from the vis’ed BSP file. PRTView works from the .prt file (which is generated in the BSP phase.)