How to make field ops more useful?

(Szakalot) #61

I definitely witnessed the lots of people taking suicide for granted. Imo youve played ET for 5 years too long! : p

Aye, I think the main culprit for the TDMy feel are the objectives. Plant takes 50 seconds to blow, so you have all the time in the world to clear out the attackers before trying to defuse. Respectively, PLANT TAKES 50 SECONDS TO BLOW, so there is no rush in trying to plant, better kill the entire enemy defense. This would be better if you could plant multiple C4, or at least do trickplants.

And dont get me started on delivery. Havent seen the last nights cup yet, so maybe there were some epic doc runs… something tells me to doubt it though!

I’m willing to bet that once more people realize direct ammo packs reduce cooldowns we’ll see a lot more FOps in comp. :>

wouldnt be a bad idea to even buff the cooldown reduction even more!

(Rémy Cabresin) #62

[QUOTE=Szakalot;528023]Im not convinced that this is the case. It will definitely make regrouping harder too do, as you cant just tap out as a team everytime clock approaches 0. A SW game in which regrouping has to be done by actually falling back to your teammates would be an interesting take on things, esp. considering how fragger would have a hard time running away from the charging proxies:wink:

I just think that once /kill meta got established in ET, it got a little TOO easy to regroup as a team, and the game didnt punish you much for charging enemy spawn with a 4 sec nade, or making a positional mistake.

Seflkilling definitely adds a layer of skill, etc. to the game. But other approaches to spawnwaves could add a layer of skill as well, Im particularly a fan of Pixels take on waves being set by the first teammate dying. I believe you were a part of the discussion in the suicides thread.

Im happy to be able to see past the pissing contest, cause man, it POURED:tongue:

Trust me, I understand how ET SW works, with /kill when it suits you, pushing the enemy to catch them on fullspawn, regrouping, trying to punish the enemy for /kill by nice spawncamp etc. I played more than my share of all three SW games, even though there wasnt nearly as much /kill in QW 6v6, mostly due to vehicles though.

This is a new game however, and I dont necessarily think that the exact same format that has been used for over a decade has to be copied over Dirty Bomb, which - after all - tries to be something new.

At least we both agree that symmetrical 30/30 spawns are ****, right?:wink:[/QUOTE]

Every spawncycle system is going to have its own problems, there is no perfect fix. It can become RNG factors, both teams always same, ET system also wasn’t perfect, pixels system potentially creates a meta fixed on getting the first kill which in turn only enhances the importance of Fragger which everyone is already complaining about. The current 30/30 system is arguably broken, but on its own also in a weirdly fair way(not that I think this is the best option) to balance it out as long as teams are about the same distance from objectives(though I would suggest defenders to be able to get their quicker if this remains the spawn system, if defenders are closer to obj it atleast takes away part of the ‘kill defenders completely and push obj after cuz they cant get to obj fast anyway’) On CF lately there has been a discussion about having 21/30 spawntimes opposed to its old 20/30 which I disliked at the start due to its randomness but its actually a decent system where the spawntimes almost never line up, meaning that the whole ‘kill them on full with low risk’ becomes a lot less potent. Might be a decent variation on ET’s system that could work for DB.

(Szakalot) #63

My main gripe with symmetrical 30/30 is how, while ‘fair’, it creates stale maps, with always the same areas being contested by the new waves. There is no ‘we have 10sec ahead of them, we can setup an ambush at this transit point’ or ‘if we rush in now, we can choke the spawn defence would be coming through’, its constant smashing of newly spawned players at the same areas, over and over. There is also no advantage to trying to catch enemies on fullspawn, as you expose yourself to the exact same thing.

Naturally, fiddling with spawntimes creates all kinds of balance issues, as travel distance and potentially chokes themselves have to be adjusted. Which is why im in favor of an ‘organic’ dynamic spawn system that takes the present map state into consideration more (how many people are alive). Forward spawns did this job in ET well, but since SD has been keeping it tighter than a catholic nun, im grasping at any other option.

Pixels system can be more subtle than seems at first, as the first team to get a pick now has to make a choice between trying to clear out more players in the next X seconds, or wait until wave completes to stagger the enemy team (2 people dead/in transit at all times). In the meantime, the remaining 4 players from the opposing team can try to bumrush the opponent before their wave completes with a /kill at the end to spawn as a full 5people wave against whatever is remaining.

One other thing that comes to mind in the context of TDM is how useful fragger is to open up on the enemy, making positional advantage dubious at best, since you can get naded out with no notice.

(kenpokiller) #64

binoculars.
Enemies in sight/seen through remain spotted for longer.
Or marked as an icon (in the sort of sense, someone was there)

(Chux) #65

The intervals don’t even have to be the same for every map, gives some extra room for map tweaking that way. Asymmetric waves are the way to go, defenders should take longer to spawn imo. And as I’ve said, when the map starts, the first respawn time should be randomized (ET style) so you don’t always have the same dull waves that get boring really fast. This should be on the agenda to try out asap.

(jazevec) #66

Two options I didn’t see mentioned:
a) when you use /kill, you automatically drop a health or ammo pack
b) when you use /kill, you respawn with 1 health

Both options are designed to encourage people to stay and fight.
Option “a” penalizes suicide abuse by providing resources to nearby enemies. Something like this is already in the game in the form of Looter perk. Correct me if I’m wrong, but by using /kill you actually deny the medpack/ammo pack to your opponent ?
Option “b” is the logical next step after cooldown abilities not getting refreshed on kill (like in ET). If /kill made you respawn with 1 life, suddenly doing it whenever you’re in an inconvenient situation would be less hot. You would have to wait a few seconds until natural health regen kicks in, then some more seconds until you are safe to go. On most maps you probably wouldn’t be fully battle-ready by the time you reach frontlines. One loophole in “b” is medic abilities, with medics healing we’d be back to square one. There would need to be a special case against that. For example you can’t receive medic healing, even from revives, until your health finishes regenerating or you take damage from an enemy.