How to fix Phantom for good, without a massive rework.

(watsyurdeal) #1

First, watch this video, and pay attention to a few things.

One, notice how movement affects the visibility of the cloak. Two, notice how visible he is from the first person perspective, this is good tell sign of a few things and will be the majority of this thread.

So, how do we fix Phantom once and for all? Well, here’s my personal take.

  • Phantom standing still with Refractive Armor should be completely invisible, 100%
  • Crouch walking Phantom should be 5% visible
  • Standing Walking Phantom should be 10% visible
  • Running, Sprinting, taking damage, all should be 25% visible, essentially looks like a walking shadow.
  • Tweaking his visibility to reward a more slower tactical play is imo ideal for him, and would fix a number of problems with the Refractive Armor’s usability. If he’s still too visible while walking and crouch walking, then keep reducing until it’s so good it hides him perfectly from the best players.

Next, some other specifics regarding the Refractive Armor

  • Change how much damage the armor can effectively Tank, in exchange for giving Phantom more HP, 120 HP like he used to be, or buff his speed so it matches with other 110 speed mercs.
  • Change how Undercover interacts with Refractive Armor, should it give it more duration, or should it give it more Armor? As in tanking more damage?
  • Should the Refractive Armor’s duration be changed from a constant time ticking, or motion sensitive, like the Cloak and Dagger watch from Team Fortress 2 and the Stealth Pack from Tribes?

And finally, some new adjustments or additions

  • I am going to propose that Phantom get a Decoy, this Decoy acts like a normal player and is essentially a hologram that even fools Motion Sensors and Red Eye’s Goggles as an actual enemy. This can be used to misdirect players or lure them in, due to the slow pace of how Refractive Armor works.
  • Throw it into the wind, and just make Phantom an Engineer, for a totally different style of play from the others.
  • Give Phantom a Sticky Cam, basically works exactly like a Turret, bur instead of shooting people, it just spots them on radar.
(Verticules) #2

Off topic the guy in the video is pretty good, but he doesn’t know you can get ammo through the office wall.

(CCP115) #3

120 HP?

I feel against making Phantom tanky, because then what is he?

He’s just a gun guy. Nothing exciting. He just comes out of nowhere and shoots you. Against most mercs, he would be a strong competitor, due to his health pool, combined with his surprise attack.

Still kind of unfun to play against.

(watsyurdeal) #4

Imo, the problem with his tankiness comes from his armor, not his health pool.

Cause the armor shouldn’t protect a Phantom when he’s caught, at least that’s how I feel

(Dieu-Sama) #5

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;24942”]First, watch this video, and pay attention to a few things.

One, notice how movement affects the visibility of the cloak. Two, notice how visible he is from the first person perspective, this is good tell sign of a few things and will be the majority of this thread.

So, how do we fix Phantom once and for all? Well, here’s my personal take.

  • Phantom standing still with Refractive Armor should be completely invisible, 100%
  • Crouch walking Phantom should be 5% visible
  • Standing Walking Phantom should be 10% visible
  • Running, Sprinting, taking damage, all should be 25% visible, essentially looks like a walking shadow.
  • Tweaking his visibility to reward a more slower tactical play is imo ideal for him, and would fix a number of problems with the Refractive Armor’s usability. If he’s still too visible while walking and crouch walking, then keep reducing until it’s so good it hides him perfectly from the best players.

Next, some other specifics regarding the Refractive Armor

  • Change how much damage the armor can effectively Tank, in exchange for giving Phantom more HP, 120 HP like he used to be, or buff his speed so it matches with other 110 speed mercs.
  • Change how Undercover interacts with Refractive Armor, should it give it more duration, or should it give it more Armor? As in tanking more damage?
  • Should the Refractive Armor’s duration be changed from a constant time ticking, or motion sensitive, like the Cloak and Dagger watch from Team Fortress 2 and the Stealth Pack from Tribes?

And finally, some new adjustments or additions

  • I am going to propose that Phantom get a Decoy, this Decoy acts like a normal player and is essentially a hologram that even fools Motion Sensors and Red Eye’s Goggles as an actual enemy. This can be used to misdirect players or lure them in, due to the slow pace of how Refractive Armor works.
  • Throw it into the wind, and just make Phantom an Engineer, for a totally different style of play from the others.
  • Give Phantom a Sticky Cam, basically works exactly like a Turret, bur instead of shooting people, it just spots them on radar.

[/quote]

without a massive rework Cough*

Real “without a massive rework” : total 100 % noiseless invisibility while cloaked (sprint included), remove damage absorption, make phantom unable to attack while cloak. The End.

(Keter) #6

Decrease visibility, decrease noise and give him a throwing knives skill that could be used without de-cloaking.

(TheVulpesFox) #7

[quote=“Dieu-Sama;158002”]

without a massive rework Cough*

Real “without a massive rework” : total 100 % noiseless invisibility while cloaked (sprint included), remove damage absorption, make phantom unable to attack while cloak. The End.[/quote]

He can’t attack while cloaked.
He is decloaked immediately…

(Reddeadcap) #8

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;157976”]Imo, the problem with his tankiness comes from his armor, not his health pool.

Cause the armor shouldn’t protect a Phantom when he’s caught, at least that’s how I feel[/quote]

Which was what the main nerfs on him were all about his refractive armor, if any recon should have the most health it’s Phantom.

Just look at the guy, he’s head to toe in armor.

Like @TheVulpesFox and @Dieu-Sama No Attacking while cloaked, forced to decloak if he wants to but buff to invisiblity and audio.

(Naonna) #9

Cloak and dagger-type play would be VERY fun: just know that in pubs, someone will just afk while cloaked and be -1 player.

Also, Phantom’s armor doesn’t help after he takes a shot: he goes back to being wimpy/squishy after 1 bullet: head shot or not. - After a battle, Phantom can’t exactly escape with the cool down length of his armor. - Especially with the ‘highly visible while running’ issue.

Requiring a manual de-cloak would be nice if it allows me to actually sneak without being a snail/ weeping angel: having to stop/slow the moment people get near or look at me. Leave the sound if you want: just make him hard to see while moving and let his cloak give him the chance to actually escape combat after a successful pick… pls. ‘-’

(reciprocal) #10

I disagree with making him completely invisible. It gives him an uncounterable advantage against 120hp or lower mercs and a massive advantage against higher hp mercs.

I am not against mechanic augment or a secondary ability. I like your decoy idea as it serves as a counter to good snipers. I am also not against some form of sapper.

(solace_) #11

i still feel he should be of more use to his team. lets face it, most people will not be able to utilize him to his full potential if he is like this. If they give him some kind of support ability at least he will be able to help his team.

(Szakalot) #12

I made a post some time ago on SD forums that goes in line with OP:

Phantom

  • almost at the right spot, don’t think he needs a secondary recon ability
  • main issue with non-katana (the only THEORETICALLY comp viable version of the merc - yeah, you wont ever be able to balance a melee weapon at high skill levels without making it OP on pubs) Phantom is that he doesn’t bring enough to the table. The armor doesn’t regen fast enough, he is quite visible, and doesn’t have any special killing potential/utility.
  • imo Phantom is almost viable as a hit&run flanking merc but suffers from some of these issues:
    *armor is pretty weak now that it doesn’t absorb infinite amount of one-off damage
  • armor activation is very slow and almost never works as a run-away tactic against good opponents
  • armor deactivation is slow and clunky, lowering his ability to be all around.

Imo the most interesting change would be to increase armor activation speed and/or allow Phantom to activate WHILST SPRINTING. This would allow Phantom to poke opponents and quickly run away, potentially making it a viable strategy in comp.

If SD is truly fixed on a secondary ability my favorite option is a cloak-field generator. Phantom can throw a generator similar in size/style to the heartbeat sensor that, in a few pulses would cloak all teammates (no armor, just cloak) for a short period of time. using any ability would decloak said teammates. Thus Phantom would have a direct teamplay (rather than indirect, by pulling enemies off choke, etc.) ability that would help his team to get through dangerous territory, and provide interesting ambush options (now a teammate can team up with phantom to 2-on-1 an opponent). Sensor can be destroyed just like vassili’s and cloak should be relatively short in duration (no more than half of phantom’s default sprinting cloak length)

(SirSwag) #13

I actually really like the idea of Phantom being an engineer. I mean his cloak is on the same level as proxy mines, sticky bombs and turrets. His weapons and hp are almost identical to Bushwacker, and it would give him the team player aspect that people want from him. Also we’d finally have another engineer to play around with. I really want this to happen.

(Reddeadcap) #14

But the thing is, he isn’t.

Many people complain that him not having a detection ability and smgs rather than snipers doesn’t count him as a recon.

In a case like that, Does that mean that Rhino isn’t an Assault for not using grenades? Is Nader not an assault for not having high health? Is Stoker not a Fire Support for not having an airstrike?

It’s better to look into what he has at the moment, and see possible changes, rather than just giving him better arming/disarming and repair speed.

Like I’ve said in other threads

Why not buff his cloak in many aspects; Visibility, Audibility, Length, etc.
But remove it’s ability to work as a shield, instead giving him 120 health and the speed of a 100 health merc? Explained that the Refractive armor is lightweight but durable.

Compared to mercs like Sawbonez, Bushwacker, Fletcher who are similarly armed like Phantom.
Phantom would have more health and be faster than them and could cloak and sneak up on people so he’d be better in a head on fight but he wouldn’t have the ability to heal and revive teammates, set defenses and interact with objectives quickly.

(Szakalot) #15

removing armor from phantom would make him extremely weak

(streetwiseSailboat) #16

I don’t think removing the armor would make him weak at all. If it is 100% silent and invisible, and he couldn’t attack out of it, he could use it to position himself in an advantageous area before striking. Think TF2 Spy before the gave him 20% damage resistance while cloaked.

(bizarreRectangle) #17

I like Szakalot’s idea the best. Not crazy but still helpful.

(Szakalot) #18

i dont know TF2 but cloak is never going to be extremely effective in 5v5s, not with the relatively long TTK and respawn waves.

Phantom is great in execution to pick people off quickly, but in obj/sw you need firepower and heal above all else. If Phantom is trying to setup a sneaky flank for 20seconds, thats 20 seconds when his team is playing 4v5. Id rather have another gun fixed on the enemy where the battle is actually taking place.

Yes he is better on pubs where general chaos contributes to his ability to sneak, but majority of balance should go towards 5v5, and in that context Phantom is one of the worst mercs in the game.

(JJMAJR) #19

There should be 8v8 competitive.

(Szakalot) #20

@JJMAJR that would require redoing half the game, including all the maps