There’s a point where any merc can be complained about as annoying, but I will agree that the auto-damage types tend to be the most justifiable. Again a reason why I like abilities as debuffs or boosters outside of combat. But I’ve made the suggestions on this subject since pre-alpha and nothing ever happened.
How to balance turret.
Szakalot
(Szakalot)
#23
Some top-cap for team cooldowns can be okay. In W:ET you had team cooldowns for airstrikes and firesupport. You’d only see them on 16+ people servers, and only on a few maps were FOpping around is particularly easy (battery, oasis). Ever recall airstrike-no-go on radar? Maybe once in years of gaming : )
I agree that they shouldn’t be necessary, but I don’t think its a problem if 8 bushies can’t all spam turrets every freaking 30 seconds.
tokamak
(tokamak)
#24
I’d rather see their effectiveness reach saturation than running into externally imposed limits. And airstrikes would be a good example of very fast saturation due to there being very few mercs to bomb in the first place.
Agreed. Same goes for diminishing returns or soft limits. I’d rather see passive buffs that stack. Like a medic boosting all assault mercs’s max hp passively like in ETQW.
Also, specialised teams shouldn’t be discouraged either. If an entire team consists of one or two different mercs then that’s called a strategy. It shouldn’t be easy for this team to function, but if all players know what they’re doing and find a way to cope with the huge achilles heal their lack of diversity presents, then they should be able to kick ass.
Szakalot
(Szakalot)
#25
It all sounds nice on paper; but if the alternative is extremely spammy pubs, id rather have limits. Thus, I can agree: lets work/think as if limits were never an option; and maybe in the end, when the game is released and problems like this still persist - put some limits in.
I recall lengthy discussions on similar issue with Tokamak on QW’s competitive 6v6 format, where many ‘honor’ rules had to be imposed, to make the game playable (in my, and most comp’s scene view): like, only one engy turret of each type; one fops arty piece; one sniper,etc.
It would be great if 8 bushies wouldn’t break the game, if teams were balanced so that a mix of medics+fops+whatever would kick bushies arses. But, if this is not the case, than I would much rather see incrementally increased cooldowns for next each turret, or sth; just so that the game is fun to play.
Poorman’s fix is better than the thing staying broken, right?
Glottis-3D
(Glottis-3D)
#26
how do you saturate spamming EV 1 second after repair?
in my opinion EV should be destroyed 2-3 times maximum during its way.
now it is like 8-10 times
once again, too much theory, where more experimantal work must be done.
team cooldowns to some extent needed for sure.
tokamak
(tokamak)
#27
[QUOTE=Szakalot;512702]I recall lengthy discussions on similar issue with Tokamak on QW’s competitive 6v6 format, where many ‘honor’ rules had to be imposed, to make the game playable (in my, and most comp’s scene view): like, only one engy turret of each type; one fops arty piece; one sniper,etc.
[/QUOTE]
Ah yeah good times. I think a good part of those rules were incredibly subjective but I have to admit that it’s not easy fitting a 12 player setting into a game that is balanced around 24 players.
INF3RN0
(INF3RN0)
#28
Again this whole discussion is just making the integration of ability counters so much more relevant. What is the reason for all the intimidation/annoyance of over-saturated teams of single mercs? The ability of course. Given a pre-match merc selection period and being able to view the merc set of the enemy team in game allows you to make an intelligent decision on reacting to the situation. Cross-archetype timing based counters in a limited form would not only solve the issue, but it would also make the game much more interesting from a strategical perspective.
On the other side of how abilities should function, I still strongly believe they should be oriented around setting up situational advantage to which the end goal is accomplished by the player and their gun- rather than the ability doing all the work on its own. Without immediate follow up a well timed ability has no real impact or reward. It’s the reason why the weak players have always crutched on the turret/mine/sticky/martydom loadouts since they involve the highest automated damage.
tokamak
(tokamak)
#29
Yeah agreed. A mono-team should be able to freely kick ass, but if a few too many of their nemesis mercs are on the opponent side then it’s over for them.
That’s how you achieve limits.
Glottis-3D
(Glottis-3D)
#30
not agreed.
once again there is already too much ability-spam
adding counter abilities without increasing cooldowns will only increase this spam.
for every strike there will be anti-strike.