How I think ranked could be fixed

[spartamania302]

[quote=“spartamania302;c-223870”]I’m pretty sure SD has more then enough money from their other projects. DB is not their only game + they made the gears of war 4 multiplayer. They also said that they’ve been increasing their team size, but yet still we don’t see any difference?

And as such

A. Their teams are working on multiple projects not just DB
B. They fund projects based on financial performance, not on player forums
C. Their team is really small even if it’s expanding. They have to train employees and bring them up to speed before they can consider production experience. I wouldn’t expect something as resource-heavy as weekly balance updates for another year or two AFTER ranked is ‘fixed’[/quote]

Answer on A: This is kinda worrying me, I think they might not take DB serious enough as a game and take it more like a side project.
Answer on B: I never said they funded it on player forums? No idea how you could even earn money from forums. But I do know that GOW4 is played a lot so they should, and I say should because if they don’t they probably got scammed, get a part from the earnings of GOW4. GOW4 is a AAA game and pretty popular correct me if I’m wrong here.
Answer on C: You have a point there I can not disagree on that.

I just don’t know man, I think that they should start over with DB and look for another publisher and not nexon. I know they parted from it but still, their own publisher is not much better. I hope that if DB dies they make another competitive shooter without going to a bad publisher like nexon, or without using their own.

[GatoCommodore]

[quote=“bgyoshi;c-223928”][quote=“spartamania302;c-223870”]I’m pretty sure SD has more then enough money from their other projects. DB is not their only game + they made the gears of war 4 multiplayer. They also said that they’ve been increasing their team size, but yet still we don’t see any difference?

And as such

A. Their teams are working on multiple projects not just DB
B. They fund projects based on financial performance, not on player forums
C. Their team is really small even if it’s expanding. They have to train employees and bring them up to speed before they can consider production experience. I wouldn’t expect something as resource-heavy as weekly balance updates for another year or two AFTER ranked is ‘fixed’[/quote]

Answer on A: This is kinda worrying me, I think they might not take DB serious enough as a game and take it more like a side project.
Answer on B: I never said they funded it on player forums? No idea how you could even earn money from forums. But I do know that GOW4 is played a lot so they should, and I say should because if they don’t they probably got scammed, get a part from the earnings of GOW4. GOW4 is a AAA game and pretty popular correct me if I’m wrong here.
Answer on C: You have a point there I can not disagree on that.

I just don’t know man, I think that they should start over with DB and look for another publisher and not nexon. I know they parted from it but still, their own publisher is not much better. I hope that if DB dies they make another competitive shooter without going to a bad publisher like nexon, or without using their own.[/quote]

@bgyoshi is saying that the boards of director wont finance a project based on some guys in the forum who said so, they look at financial prediction and stuff to fund a project

they only do the multiplayer of GOW4, so probably not that much
(if im not wrong, publisher gets 80%, Dev gets 20% if its EA, i dont know about Microsoft tho.)

[x3onn]

[quote=“x3onn;c-223892”]There are a lot things that I would change to make the game more balanced and fun, but one thing almost everyone agrees is that Thunder and his concussion nade are way too strong and annoying, it’s not fun to play or to play against.

you like the thunder Concussion before he was buffed?
sure go ahead. Spam #NerfThunder everywhere. Just dont say its too weak again like before he was buffed

i remember when his concussion is very weak everybody said thunder is useless, his gameplay sucks, #BuffThunder.

his main damage dealer is his own gun and people said its OP because “its annoying”

but sure go ahead ask SD to nerf him[/quote]

Sure, people complained that Thunder is weak before he got buffed, but it’s always better to have something that is not so great than something that is too strong and ruins the fun for everyone. He just got buffed too much at once, in same patch some other stuff got slightly nerfed (fragger hp for example). This is why it would be nice to see balance patches more frequently with small changes instead of huge changes once per year.

[GatoCommodore]

[quote=“GatoCommodore;c-223921”][quote=“x3onn;c-223892”]There are a lot things that I would change to make the game more balanced and fun, but one thing almost everyone agrees is that Thunder and his concussion nade are way too strong and annoying, it’s not fun to play or to play against.

you like the thunder Concussion before he was buffed?
sure go ahead. Spam #NerfThunder everywhere. Just dont say its too weak again like before he was buffed

i remember when his concussion is very weak everybody said thunder is useless, his gameplay sucks, #BuffThunder.

his main damage dealer is his own gun and people said its OP because “its annoying”

but sure go ahead ask SD to nerf him[/quote]

Sure, people complained that Thunder is weak before he got buffed, but it’s always better to have something that is not so great than something that is too strong and ruins the fun for everyone. He just got buffed too much at once, in same patch some other stuff got slightly nerfed (fragger hp for example). This is why it would be nice to see balance patches more frequently with small changes instead of huge changes once per year.[/quote]

https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dirtybomb.gamepedia.com/7/74/Concussive-3-smaller.gif?version=e6abb837e987ebbe7e5e981c1a8e4923

here is thunder pre-nerf pre-buff
you notice the screen is not completely covered in white and you still have 100% movement speed and accuracy. When you conc a room they go spam jump so they wont get hit, effectively reducing thunder ability to kill someone and the EMP taste like complementary.

[Szakalot]

[quote=“GatoCommodore;c-223921”][quote=“x3onn;c-223892”]There are a lot things that I would change to make the game more balanced and fun, but one thing almost everyone agrees is that Thunder and his concussion nade are way too strong and annoying, it’s not fun to play or to play against.

you like the thunder Concussion before he was buffed?
sure go ahead. Spam #NerfThunder everywhere. Just dont say its too weak again like before he was buffed

i remember when his concussion is very weak everybody said thunder is useless, his gameplay sucks, #BuffThunder.

his main damage dealer is his own gun and people said its OP because “its annoying”

but sure go ahead ask SD to nerf him[/quote]

Sure, people complained that Thunder is weak before he got buffed, but it’s always better to have something that is not so great than something that is too strong and ruins the fun for everyone. He just got buffed too much at once, in same patch some other stuff got slightly nerfed (fragger hp for example). This is why it would be nice to see balance patches more frequently with small changes instead of huge changes once per year.[/quote]

the problem with small changes often, at least for pubs, is that the data you collect lose credibility. Did that 10hp nerf/buff on merc X put him in right power level, or are people still learning to play around/with the change?

You can make small changes all year round, and meta will constantly shift, but that doesn’t mean the game is actually balanced. I’d rather SD not go Hearthstone route of balancing, where any OP deck gets destroyed with a singular nerf to a critical card, and any new print elevates one archetype to ridiculous power levels.

[pumpkinmeerkat]

[quote=“Szakalot;c-223986”]the problem with small changes often, at least for pubs, is that the data you collect lose credibility. Did that 10hp nerf/buff on merc X put him in right power level, or are people still learning to play around/with the change?
[/quote]

PTS still a thing?

[Nail]

[quote=“pumpkinmeerkat;c-223989”][quote=“Szakalot;c-223986”]the problem with small changes often, at least for pubs, is that the data you collect lose credibility. Did that 10hp nerf/buff on merc X put him in right power level, or are people still learning to play around/with the change?
[/quote]

PTS still a thing?[/quote]

yes, but not big enough data sink to do weeklies

[GatoCommodore]

[quote=“Nail;c-223991”][quote=“pumpkinmeerkat;c-223989”][quote=“Szakalot;c-223986”]the problem with small changes often, at least for pubs, is that the data you collect lose credibility. Did that 10hp nerf/buff on merc X put him in right power level, or are people still learning to play around/with the change?
[/quote]

PTS still a thing?[/quote]

yes, but not big enough data sink to do weeklies[/quote]

i forgot there are people doing test over there

in my thick head sometimes i forgot im just a number in statistics

[spartamania302]

[quote=“x3onn;c-223981”][quote=“GatoCommodore;c-223921”][quote=“x3onn;c-223892”]There are a lot things that I would change to make the game more balanced and fun, but one thing almost everyone agrees is that Thunder and his concussion nade are way too strong and annoying, it’s not fun to play or to play against.

you like the thunder Concussion before he was buffed?
sure go ahead. Spam #NerfThunder everywhere. Just dont say its too weak again like before he was buffed

i remember when his concussion is very weak everybody said thunder is useless, his gameplay sucks, #BuffThunder.

his main damage dealer is his own gun and people said its OP because “its annoying”

but sure go ahead ask SD to nerf him[/quote]

Sure, people complained that Thunder is weak before he got buffed, but it’s always better to have something that is not so great than something that is too strong and ruins the fun for everyone. He just got buffed too much at once, in same patch some other stuff got slightly nerfed (fragger hp for example). This is why it would be nice to see balance patches more frequently with small changes instead of huge changes once per year.[/quote]

https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dirtybomb.gamepedia.com/7/74/Concussive-3-smaller.gif?version=e6abb837e987ebbe7e5e981c1a8e4923

here is thunder pre-nerf pre-buff
you notice the screen is not completely covered in white and you still have 100% movement speed and accuracy. When you conc a room they go spam jump so they wont get hit, effectively reducing thunder ability to kill someone and the EMP taste like complementary.[/quote]

Any player with decent aim can hit a player that is just jumping like crazy. Ok sure it makes it harder to hit them but that is the thing, at least then he requires skill. At this moment thunder doesn’t require any skill except for the aim off course. My point is if you are not able to kill him before he throws his conc, concussion is unavoidable. Nerfing his HP WILL help a lot, keeping his conc the way it is is ok, but his HP MUST go down. Going back to fragger, if you are smart and see a fragger backing off, or you just know they have a fragger, backing off untill you see the nade go off will save your life, just saying, his nade is easier to dodge, a conc is either blindness or concussed, or both, but dodging any of em is almost impossible.

[spartamania302]

And maybe it is better to bring back the EMP effect on it and remove the conc effect. At least he will be usefull then, hes like a rhino, high health and high damage. Giving him the ability to disable deployables is a usefull ability to clear out a room with a health station, without needing a phantom to sneek in.

[Szakalot]

conc nade is the problem, and you have correctly identified the reason (undodgeable).

changing HP will not address that

[spartamania302]

[quote=“Szakalot;c-224028”]conc nade is the problem, and you have correctly identified the reason (undodgeable).

changing HP will not address that[/quote]

Yea you are probably right, still, lowering his HP might add the ability that he falls before he can throw it, or that a teammate who is not blinded can take him out more easily. But yea lowering his HP will probably not help, thats why I was thinking about bringing the EMP back and either lowering the effect of concussion or remove it.

[GatoCommodore]

@spartamania302

sure, any decent player can shoot a proxy jumping up and down, but what about proxy that jumps up and down that can shoot back at thunder and resulting in his death? his ability sounds useless no? (this actually happen a lot back in the day, my friends pulling their hair when playing thunder and finally declaring the merc useless)
(1v2 with thunder is pretty much useless, even tho he is assault merc)

but fragger grenade doesnt need the enemy to jump up and down to kill , it just dead/gibbed on the spot, or injured, can be fixed immidiately with some of those burst rifle rounds and fletcher, ooh fletcher, he can just stick one and blow it up then get maximum 3 bullets the target is ded hell, both of this does not require fragger or fletcher to be in the same area as the target.

the thing is with fragger, he can walk in with the frag in hand, facing you and blow you up without having to back off (i saw good players dont even need to back off to keep track of the target)

meanwhile, thunder

he throw the nade, people went blind if they see it, if they dont, they can just turn around and shoot thunder or if worst case scenario, theres a health station or sentry that can just fu ck everything up and making thunder dead-er. Thats why he gets high HP, Thats why his cooldown is lower than fragger, thats why all of his gun is fast firing for effect-type of guns.

thunder EMP arent even that good to begin with, even tho its vital when facing HP station or Sentry or mines. Now, thunder is more balanced since if theres a mine, or HP station or a sentry, it can cancel thunder assault into a halt (thunder begins shooting but ends up dead or needing to retreat when assaulting). Fragger is balanced, Thunder Is balanced. Its a different side of the same coin. One of them rely on Shock And Awe the other relies on timing and accuracy.

now, why i think thunder is very bad currently?
because you can bring more than one in ranked and theres no merc limit because not everyone owns every mercs

[Szakalot]

‘dont have to back away to throw a nade’? not sure if troll or not

[GatoCommodore]

‘dont have to back away to throw a nade’? not sure if troll or not

naw, the guy already know where the enemies at based from the sound like gunfire and usual camp spot.

in this case, its underground.
he already saw proxy on the way to the door he already pulled the pin and he just waltz inside to throw to the left side yellow box stacks. Situational Awareness is a thing

[bgyoshi]

‘dont have to back away to throw a nade’? not sure if troll or not

If you have the 20% less damage from your own explosives perk, you can cook the nade and explode it in hand and not die, while killing most everything around you.

I do it all the time lol

People are just salty about top tier mercs. If you change thunder’s conc, he will be unplayably bad, just like he was before the buff, just like he was after the initial nerf. He is a perfectly balanced character that gets broken off the rails when you have 2+ on a team of 5. Throwing one conc every 15 seconds is mostly fine. A team tossing concs every 6 seconds is abhorrent and degenerate.

[neverplayseriou]

[quote=“Szakalot;c-224034”]‘dont have to back away to throw a nade’? not sure if troll or not

If you have the 20% less damage from your own explosives perk, you can cook the nade and explode it in hand and not die, while killing most everything around you.

I do it all the time lol

People are just salty about top tier mercs. If you change thunder’s conc, he will be unplayably bad, just like he was before the buff, just like he was after the initial nerf. He is a perfectly balanced character that gets broken off the rails when you have 2+ on a team of 5. Throwing one conc every 15 seconds is mostly fine. A team tossing concs every 6 seconds is abhorrent and degenerate.[/quote]

so you’re just a fucking terrible fragger that will die by the second enemy after throwing his nade, good to know.

All sd has to do is pull Thunder’s hp down to 140, turn the flashbang into a cs go/cod style flashbang where you can actually turn away from it and nerf the stark.

[jooshoyes]

[quote=“bgyoshi;c-224043”][quote=“Szakalot;c-224034”]‘dont have to back away to throw a nade’? not sure if troll or not

If you have the 20% less damage from your own explosives perk, you can cook the nade and explode it in hand and not die, while killing most everything around you.

I do it all the time lol

People are just salty about top tier mercs. If you change thunder’s conc, he will be unplayably bad, just like he was before the buff, just like he was after the initial nerf. He is a perfectly balanced character that gets broken off the rails when you have 2+ on a team of 5. Throwing one conc every 15 seconds is mostly fine. A team tossing concs every 6 seconds is abhorrent and degenerate.[/quote]

so you’re just a @$!# terrible fragger that will die by the second enemy after throwing his nade, good to know.

All sd has to do is pull Thunder’s hp down to 140, turn the flashbang into a cs go/cod style flashbang where you can actually turn away from it and nerf the stark.[/quote]

That would kill the merc again, and I would rather they remove the flash and keep the concussion tbh.

Though the stark needs a hit with that nerf hammer again for sure.

[bgyoshi]

so you’re just a @$!# terrible fragger that will die by the second enemy after throwing his nade, good to know.

Not really, it’s more like the enemy ambushes me 3v1 and there’s no way I can win that fight so I just pull out a nade and chase them all down. Worst that happens is I die anyway and dump a nade that nukes a player or two, but more often than not I just get an easy triple kill with no repercussions.

[SnakekillerX]

And maybe it is better to bring back the EMP effect on it and remove the conc effect. At least he will be usefull then, hes like a rhino, high health and high damage. Giving him the ability to disable deployables is a usefull ability to clear out a room with a health station, without needing a phantom to sneek in.

They already gave the EMP effect to Phantom, who I feel it actually fits a lot better with anyway.

The problem with Thunder’s ability is as most people have stated that it is extremely hard to dodge… I often get hit with it when I feel like I’m completely behind cover, even after the latest patch. The blind effect is in my opinion much more annoying than the slow it causes but its hard to nerf that without making it too easy for the enemy to fight back… Its one of those abilities I think where no one is going to be completely happy with the outcome.