How HotS draft mode can work for DB

(tokamak) #1

This video briefly explains HotS ranked play and draft mode. The actual draft session starts at the 2:23 mark.

//youtu.be/aZ9O-bzpbQg

DB can do exactly the same! This can be a really cool way to increase the uniqueness of a team.

Each player gets a turn to pick one single merc (in the 1-1-2-2-1-1- turn style).

These mercs will be the spawn choices of the team.

So rather than each player having 3 of their own mercs to respawn as, they get to have a collective 5 merc respawn choice as selected by their team.

Though the mercs that are picked are collective, each player can still assign their preferred card and cosmetic skin to the available mercs. Just to add a sense of personalisation to the mix.

What this does:

  • A team has a more narrow scope of mercs to work with. 5 mercs rather than a potential of 15 (if each player has a unique set of 3 mercs)
  • A player has a wider scope of mercs to play with, 5 rather than 3.
  • This means both teams will know exactly what type of configuration they’re up against. They get to anticipate and rule out various tactics.
  • This makes a match more consistent and easier to follow, both as competitor and as an E-sports spectator (or shoutcaster).
  • This will reward the team that has the best approach to putting their own known strengths against the opponents known weaknes
  • This will reward the team that has the best approach to putting their own known strengths against the opponents known weaknesses.

Overall I think a system like this will make a competitive DB match less chaotic as it gives both teams more control over the outcome.

(Protekt1) #2

I feel like DB can even improve upon it and make it unique for DB.

Basically everyone picks 1 merc. And then reserve mercs are picked. Could lead to even more interesting drafts. And reserve mercs can be switched out by anyone on that team. Just a spitballed idea and I can see reasons why it might not work well.

On an unrelated note, I need to play more HOTS. I’ve been in the game since alpha but I’ve only played a few games in co-op mode vs AI. protekt1#1871 is my ID if anyone wants to friend me over battlenet. I usually play hearthstone, but am interested in playing more HOTS.

(tokamak) #3

Sounds interesting. How do reserve mercs work?

(prophett) #4

As long as I can always play skyhammer…

(Glottis-3D) #5

1 merc for a round? or a map?? no thnx. not gonna play this.

1 merc + 5 reserved mercs for a round for whole team - interesting.

(Protekt1) #6

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;520983]

1 merc + 5 reserved mercs for a round for whole team - interesting.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, this is basically the idea. Your team has a set of mercs that anyone can swap into (while a reserve is being used, it can’t be selected by another player to avoid duplicates).

I am starting to realize my idea is much like the OP’s lol

(tokamak) #7

Yeah it’s similar. Though I think duplicates should be allowed otherwise you have no liquidity.

You get to play with 5 mercs for the full round. Each merc is picked by one team member in the draft mode.

(Glottis-3D) #8

so, it is 5 mercs for whole team with duplicates
hmmm. this is better.
it is less than 15 mercs for a team, but in general those 15 are usualy 10 or even less different mercs. and only 6-7 are played.

i like that every player will have more mercs to play.

(tokamak) #9

Yes, it’s the potential of 15 different mercs that makes the game quite difficult to follow. In a moba match, every player is their own, singular character. This means that the players in both teams, the shoutcasters and the audience are all on the same page. They all follow the same narrative on which they can base their predictions and strategies.

Now obviously one merc per player won’t work in DB, too often that results in dead-ends for one team. So the ability to pick a new merc to respond to a new situation is important. But once each player has three different mercs to respond with, then the whole thing becomes really diffuse and scattered.

Imagine being a shoutcaster of the current DB build. That person would constantly have to keep everyone up to date on each merc choice. A real nightmare. Players are constantly swapping and introducing new mercs to the game.

In the 5 merc draft system, everyone is back on the same page again. The teams can still come in different configurations of those 5 mercs, but at least you know the possibilities. That gives you oversight and a sense of control.

And MAYBE this is even a fun system for solo pub play. Each player brings their own merc to the match and the whole team gets to share in that merc as one of their five options.

(ToonBE) #10

I like this! I also think it would be hard for shoutcasters if there were 15 mercs possible per team. And if you play in a team you’ll probably have a merc you specialise in so that would be your pick. The additional mercs are there to cope with special situations or to execute a certain tactic.

(tokamak) #11

There’s two ways to handle customisation:

  • The augments and skins of the merc you select is what your team will have to play with as well.

  • Players can set a primary card (and/skin/configuration) for each merc in their collection. Whenever they pick a merc selected by someone else, then their premade load-out will be used.

Personally I’m leaning towards the first but I think that most players will prefer the second plan. It gives exclusivity, it rewards their own effort and it still gives some ‘wiggle room’ in the 5 merc selection.

(Protekt1) #12

Would augments really be used in a mode like this? I guess we still don’t know how exactly how augments will be earned once the game goes live.

(Glottis-3D) #13

if the sugments are done like

gunner
objective
scout
medic
support

then there can be simple icon-based identification for spectators. so that they get, why the guy with the objective icon starts to repair, and not the guy with some other augments

but to be realy realy honest i do not like augments, and would like them to be switched off.

(AssortedStuff) #14

Limiting mercs sounds good BUT only for ranked matches and competitions.
When it comes to public matches I can predict some players just disconnecting if they can’t play as their preferred merc.

(Szakalot) #15

Sounds like you can go about augments HotS style, where at each level you pick one from a set. That would go against card design.

What is the opposition for having only one merc for a whole SW game? I would say its a matter of balance. If some mercs will always be picked (skyhammer, stoker, etc.) due to their versatility, just push the balance towards the niche mercs more (make rhino more ‘rhiney’, make arty more powerful, etc.) and things will smooth out.

I don’t really see any other way to make comp presentable, than to have identifiable mercs with unique impacts on how a 5v5 is played. Maybe a swap or two after half-time?

Draft system could also work, but I think you need a few more mercs for that, its ~20 atm, I think above 25 would be good already.

(tokamak) #16

Yeah let’s explore both options:

Draft each round:

  • Teams can pick mercs both for attack and for defense
  • Leads to more specialised tactics
  • Draft between the rounds gives a break in the game.
  • This makes a match last longer. Especially once it’s best out of three or five, that quickly adds up.
  • A break between matches howver, can also be welcomed in the Esport scene. The draft gives shoutcasters more stuff to talk about and will probably involve the audience more as well.

One draft per match (thus for both rounds):

  • Drafting becomes more challenging. The mercs you pick will have to suit your defense and offense at the same time.
  • First draft is more meaningful. Your choices vs theirs matter more when each selection is going to be used in both rounds
  • Matches go faster. It keeps the pace in the game.

I think for ranked games the faster version is preferred, but overall I think a separate draft for both attack and defence is very interesting in professional play.

And a wider selection of mercs is tantamount indeed. Right now drafting would be about which mercs you exclude rather than the ones you pick.

(Szakalot) #17

I was addressing these issues separately:
a) DRAFT mode where only one MERC of each type can be picked by one (but not the other) team
b) commitment to playing one merc for the entire map (both attack or defense)

Draft each round:

  • Leads to more specialised tactics

I’d argue that being stuck with one merc will lead to specialised tactics more. If you can swap around, you’ll follow the ‘optimal’ meta, if you have a great RHINO defense strategy, you will be forced to come up with valid uses for such rhino on offense as well.

  • Draft between the rounds gives a break in the game.
  • This makes a match last longer. Especially once it’s best out of three or five, that quickly adds up.
  • A break between matches howver, can also be welcomed in the Esport scene. The draft gives shoutcasters more stuff to talk about and will probably involve the audience more as well.

I find these reasons little far-fetched. Match lasts longer because of a break? you are talking 1-2 min vs. a game that can last anything between 5-20 min based on speed of offense, map? I’d leave esport shoutcasters out of it at this time.

Agreed on all other points.

It all kind of depends on the amount of mercs available. It can be definitely true that being able to pick only one merc for the entire round could lead to >50% mercs being considered unviable in comp, due to there being more versatile mercs available. Again: why pick niche Rhino, when you can get sawbonez or stoker, who will be useful in most types of engagements.

I’m thinking its not such a big deal if both teams can have clones of mercs, provided that the team of 5 has different mercs only. Who cares, really, that there are two sawbonez(ez), one on attack, one on def, what people would want to see is the team of 5 working together, this will be the only visible element of the game anyways, as fights themselves are too fast-paced to keep track of.

I see draft as being picked for both offense and defense at the same time.
Single map draft:
Team A picks a merc for offense round 1.
Team B picks a merc for offense round 2.
Team B picks a merc for defense round 1
Team A pick a merc for defense round 2.
etc.

(tokamak) #18

Ooh making the mercs exclusive for one team is spicy! I love that. It would completely do away with the usual bread and butter mercs. Actually eliminating options from your opponents is really interesting. Even more so if that same exclusive merc becomes available for your whole team.

That’s the kind of asymmetrical gameplay I’m missing right now.