How do you feel about shotguns?

[AirborneAsian]

Shotgun + Empire 9 = Op plz nerf

[Fiktio]

People who get salty about shotties are the ones who get #rekt by them by some pub, scrub, or any other rhyming word that denotes a lower class player compared to their “eliteness”

People that dislike shotguns very likely know how does it feel to get killed by shotguns, you are right with that.
But some people have also tried to use them against other players and these same players - like me - still thinks that shotguns aren’t that nice at current shape.
In my opinion shotguns were alright as they were before and this buff wasn’t needed.
And the most important thing: I’m not calling anyone as scrubs who dare to disagree with me or just because they complain of the shotgun.
After all these are opinion questions and it’s impossible to make everyone happy.

[_retired]

Severe butthurt in this thread.

-They don’t work in comp because other weapons are better/they have less range
-Shotguns work on close range since some of them are one shot to the head
-Player runs around corner and get shotgunned

Process of thinking:
=> Shotguns are bad because I got shot on close range and not further range and shotguns don’t of course require skill since I would had prevaled otherwise with my weapon that has more range with burst ability.

Then the player continues to run as fast as they can with their SMG around the corners.

facepalm

[Fiktio]

There’s a difference in being “butthurt” because you’re getting killed by shotguns, and playing with shotguns, easily killing enemies and still having a negative opinion about the weapon itself.

[_retired]

[quote=“Fiktio;75411”]There’s a difference in being “butthurt” because you’re getting killed by shotguns, and playing with shotguns, easily killing enemies and still having a negative opinion about the weapon itself.
[/quote]
It seems some people are butthurt (not meaning this thread particularly) since they cannot just have automatic/burst fire parties while running as fast as they can. They are dumbfounded when game introduces something that doesn’t fit that picture.
Since that what comp is about then everything else is “noobie/pub” other slandering term.

It doesn’t make any sense to complain about the lack of efficiency of shotguns in long range and then complain when you get shot by them from close range. I mean, where’s the intelligence of that?

I just hate these complete WHINING about “I ran around the corner and guy just killed me”.
What’s the difference if somebody jumps around the corner and happens to empty his SMG clip to your face? Nothing really. If you think it requires masterful “tracking” or whatever to shoot someone to the face with burst fire, you are wrong.

Only thing people complain about is that why they get killed with weapon that isn’t their own pick for weapon in the game or when they run end up headlessly in to situation that gets them killed…quickly.

I’m not good with shotguns and I do hate getting shot by them but I don’t find excuse If I run around the corner towards a SHOTGUN and get taken down by it. At least then they have one thing going for them.
I haven’t anyone really to say they are OP but instead just the opposite, but still complain them being somehow “unfair”.

"X thing is weak = If I get killed by it = annoying = no skill required =butthurteeeee!
Next stop: Let’s tweak corners and play just in round maps because they offer help to “noobs” and work only in pub games.

[affableTricycle]

[quote=“RyePanda;75198”][quote=“affableTricycle;75170”]They’re skilless pubstomp weapons that are useless competitively and only exist to let shitters get cheap frags in pubs. Pretty much like Phantom honestly. The Ahnuld is the only fair one. Can’t instakill people without a headshot (if I get instakilled with the Ahnuld I just press v56) and it’s only available on slower mercs.

They’re not OP. They’re just skilless and anti-fun.[/quote]

Salt detected.[/quote]

I die to shotties about as often as I blow myself up from trying to use stickies in CQC. By no means am I salty. I just dislike them. I dislike the idea of them in a high TTK shooter.

[_retired]

[quote=“affableTricycle;75443”] die to shotties about as often as I blow myself up from trying to use stickies in CQC. By no means am I salty. I just dislike them. I dislike the idea of them in a high TTK shooter.[/quote]Saltmountain.

You dislike the idea?
You dislike simple weapon being in a shooter game because you lack the skill to understand them?
They’re here to stay. Too bad for you.
Are you’re saying they are OP or they are bad?

And you’re saying this while having Nader as your avatar? You seriously went there.

[Fiktio]

@crabbyDimension It’s not only about getting “shot behind a corner”, even it’s used often as an example.

I used to play for awhile with shotguns and it seemed to be easy to take someone down even from a bit longer distance. And that impression was even from the time before the shotgun buff happened.
I’ve been also playing a lot with SMGs and those guns can be also very accurate and effective, but hey, at least I won’t do one hit kill by pressing one button.

Also disliking one weapon in the game has nothing to do with “being salty” or “having a lack of understanding the game.”
Some people dislike certain weapons, some people dislike certain mercs and etc.
We have as many opinions as we have players and it’s impossible that everybody agree with everyone on everything.

[_retired]

[quote=“Fiktio;75527”]@crabbyDimension It’s not about only getting “shot behind a corner”, even it’s used often as an example.[/quote]Yes, not about only, but certainly ONE of the excuses hating something.

[quote=“Fiktio;75527”]I used to play for awhile with shotguns and it seemed to be easy to take someone down even from a bit longer distance. And that impression was even from the time before the shotgun buff happened. [/quote]But the whole point of shotguns that they aren’t viable in comp because they lack efficiency in range compared to other weapons and since they still CAN be effective close range, some people dislike them when they get surprised by their efficiency on close range.

It doesn’t make any sense.

[quote=“Fiktio;75527”]I’ve been also playing a lot with SMGs and those guns can be also very accurate and effective, but hey, at least I won’t do one hit kill by pressing one button.[/quote]Bit like snipers?
How it differs that you run around the corner and happen to get so close to SMG it’s in front of your face. Let alone that sniper rifle.

Do you know why shotguns are in real life used?

[quote=“Fiktio;75527”]IAlso disliking one weapon in the game has nothing to do with “being salty” or “having a lack of understanding the game.”[/quote]If you have reason to dislike it?

But with unreasonable contradicting statements, it’s nothing but salt from less skillful players.

[quote=“Fiktio;75527”]Some people dislike certain weapons, some people dislike certain mercs and etc.We have as many opinions as we have players and it’s impossible that everybody agree with everyone on everything. [/quote]Well, it’s a shooting game and some people dislike such a basic weapon like shotguns for illogical reasons is only because they are butthurt.

IT would be different case if they would be OP but they aren’t but just work currently on specific situations and/or close range.

It’s totally this “I run with automatic/burst weapon just looking my crosshair to get headshots” with total lack of understanding what other aspects the game might have. Therefore disrupted and disctracted something that they then claim to be these “spam” or “noobie” things.

I have seen these same kind of discussions about other games and it’s always the same drill.

If somebody dislikes something it’s fine. But when they are contradicting themselves or they are claiming things that they are for noobs/pubs it smells.

[affableTricycle]

[quote=“crabbyDimension;75447”][quote=“affableTricycle;75443”] die to shotties about as often as I blow myself up from trying to use stickies in CQC. By no means am I salty. I just dislike them. I dislike the idea of them in a high TTK shooter.[/quote]Saltmountain.

You dislike the idea?
You dislike simple weapon being in a shooter game because you lack the skill to understand them?
They’re here to stay. Too bad for you.
Are you’re saying they are OP or they are bad?

And you’re saying this while having Nader as your avatar? You seriously went there. [/quote]

I’m not saying they’re OP, I agree that overall they’re bad. In the same way that in the overall 5v5 competitive scene Rhino is bad. But in 6v6+ pubs Rhino is an annoying piece of shit.

Also how does lacking skill mean I don’t understand something? I mean, you can call me a shitter or you can call me an idiot but you can’t call me both at once. Also referring to individual skill while arguing with someone is a load of shit. First of all you’ve never played with me and you have no idea how good or bad I am. Second of all skill has nothing to do with anything in the first place.

I don’t play Nader anymore. I used to play her a lot. I still like her as a character but I main Fletcher now. Hence, y’know, talking about stickies. I’ll prob switch to Phoenix if he’s good on release. Also she’s in your avatar too.

[Fiktio]

@crabbyDimension My opinion was basically from the general view, not limited for comp or public. People might have reasons why they don’t like shotguns in comp, but I’m not going to create any kind of opinion about it at this case. I’ll let someone tell his/her own opinion about it in case they have more experience from especially from comp view.

After all it’s quite logical thing that getting shot from short distance kills you quickly, no matter is it shotgun or SMG or even “very lucky panic shot with sniper rifle.”
Not to mention that it’s quite logical thing that sniper rifle can kill with one hit from very long distance and that’s common in other games as well. Meanwhile I doubt shotguns were meant for “sniping people” from further distance.
However the thing is the range I’m talking about here. The reason why I dislike shotgun is especially effectiveness of shotgun from medium/long range. It’s logical that shotgun works effectively from short range, but does it have to be that effective at long range as well? I get it that some other weapons in this game have also things devs could give some attention, but aren’t we basically talking about shotguns? At least that’s what this topic is about.

I wouldn’t even bring real life argument to this discussion, since this game in general has so many things that aren’t realistic in real world. (Wall jumping in real life would be effective and reviving dead people back to live by shooting them with reviving gun. Everybody gotta love those necromancers!)

[_retired]

[quote=“affableTricycle;75534”]I’m not saying they’re OP, I agree that overall they’re bad. In the same way that in the overall 5v5 competitive scene Rhino is bad. But in 6v6+ pubs Rhino is an annoying piece of shit.[/quote]Yeah, but what’s the point?

You don’t think every freaking merc carrying SMGs or assault rifles isn’t annoying?

[quote=“affableTricycle;75534”]Also how does lacking skill mean I don’t understand something? I mean, you can call me a shitter or you can call me an idiot but you can’t call me both at once. Also referring to individual skill while arguing with someone is a load of shit. First of all you’ve never played with me and you have no idea how good or bad I am. Second of all skill has nothing to do with anything in the first place.[/quote]Well…you started it. Don’t start something you cannot go to end with:

[quote=“affableTricycle;75534”]They’re skilless pubstomp weapons that are useless competitively and only exist to let shitters get cheap frags in pubs. Pretty much like Phantom honestly.
…
They’re just skilless and anti-fun. [/quote]

Actually since they aren’t viable on comp because they lack efficiency against SMGs…makes them require MORE skill to play them? Doesn’t it? That the first shot have to hit, you cannot miss with them or use sticky+shotgun combo example?

IF somebody would excel on Phantom on comp now wouldn’t it mean he has pretty high skill playing him?

[quote=“affableTricycle;75534”]I don’t play Nader anymore. I used to play her a lot. I still like her as a character but I main Fletcher now. Hence, y’know, talking about stickies. I’ll prob switch to Phoenix if he’s good on release. Also she’s in your avatar too.[/quote]And Ahhnnuld is the only “fair” one since you are using it, right? It requires skill but others don’t?
Aren’t stickies annoying to you?
How they fit to your picture of high TTK shooter? One throw and then detonate when you want. With Nader it’s lobbying someone with blast effect.

These all things like Rhinos, shotguns and yes even Phantoms (EDIT: and stickies as well!) offer variety and above all variables to the game.
Only problem with these all are is that I would like them to be more viable in comp (EDIT:well stickies are already) but the problem is of course since it’s 5v5 match and secondly these abilities like invisibility, one shot kills etc. are hard to balance/work only in specific situations (that might be true with Phoenix too).

So maybe instead just disliking about them or saying silly things about “only exist to let shitters get cheap frags” why not give suggestion how to change them for better?

What if I would say “Sticky bombs only exist to scrubs get cheap thrills”?

EDIT: Answer you later Fiktio, I’m not disagreeing with you greatly what you said.

[CCP1151]

Shotguns are annoying because of only 2 reasons.

There are a lot of close quarter areas.
And they don’t suffer enough accuracy penalty while jumping.

Yea I know, dumb reasons aye?
It’s just infuriating sometimes getting one/two shot, simply because shotguns are surprisingly accurate.
I wouldn’t have a problem with them, it’s just that if you jump and fire with a shotgun, the accuracy penalty is negligible, meaning you can play as Aura and Proxy and go jump around crazily while still landing shots reliably.

[_retired]

[quote=“Fiktio;75535”]@crabbyDimension My opinion was basically from the general view, not limited for comp or public. People might have reasons why they don’t like shotguns in comp, but I’m not going to create any kind of opinion about it at this case. I’ll let someone tell his/her own opinion about it in case they have more experience from especially from comp view.[/quote]Well, usually people have their opinion whether they are useful or not and good/bad in comp. They fit to their role very well which is CQC unfortunately they just aren’t as good as SMGs so it’s kind of strange then say they are disliked because you get dropped by them in…CQC.

[quote=“Fiktio;75535”]Meanwhile I doubt shotguns were meant for “sniping people” from further distance. [/quote]No, they were meant to blast you away in close quarters. Giving them more punch for longer range was probably because they were so bad compared to smgs.

[quote=“Fiktio;75535”]The reason why I dislike shotgun is especially effectiveness of shotgun from medium/long range. It’s logical that shotgun works effectively from short range, but does it have to be that effective at long range as well?[/quote]I don’t disagree. Personally I would prefer that you could get hit easily from longer range with shotgun but the damage would drop drastically.

[quote=“Fiktio;75535”]I wouldn’t even bring real life argument to this discussion, since this game in general has so many things that aren’t realistic in real world. [/quote]I will bring it in sense that every weapon should be at least resemble in some form what they are in real life. Example sniper rifles are for long range, shotguns are for close quarters. These are simple facts that then can be represented in the game in certain way depending how you balance things out between these different properties of weapons.
You wouldn’t make shotguns to be able to snipe really either.

Of course it leads to that if we’re looking from aiming perspective shotguns might be “easier” to use in close quarters than other weapons but in general they might be not effective at all. I have no idea how this makes someone dislike these weapons.

I personally think that anything that takes game away from one dimensional run&gun with smg action is good for the game. It should offer multiple pathways to success and while some options might have higher skill ceiling than others but still be something useful. Of course each of these should have counter as well.

For me skill in game isn’t just about how well you aim or jump around but use the different properties of weapons and abilities of mercs for our advantage or counter others.

Someone inable to do it probably will lead to salt overdose.

People are free to disagree with me since I don’t own rights to their opinions but I have seen these kind of discussions before in other games. Some people just want weapons that fit their own playing style and vision of game. Everything else that might kill them rarely even accidentally or randomly “are for noobs”. It’s Stupid.

[quote=“extravagentBypass;75807”]There are a lot of close quarter areas.[/quote]There are some, but in most cases SMGs are so much better.

[quote=“extravagentBypass;75807”]And they don’t suffer enough accuracy penalty while jumping.[/quote]I haven’t used shotguns that much to know it myself since I’m not using jumpy/springy types but what I have heard from pretty good players spread from jumping is pretty crazy with shotguns. Hmm. Strange?

[CCP1151]

[quote=“crabbyDimension;75845”]

And they don’t suffer enough accuracy penalty while jumping.[/quote]I haven’t used shotguns that much to know it myself since I’m not using jumpy/springy types but what I have heard from pretty good players spread from jumping is pretty crazy with shotguns. Hmm. Strange?

Never heard anyone say this about shotguns. It is quite high for other guns, so you would want to avoid jumping with an SMG. But with a shotgun, it’s not that big a change, and you should be in close quarters anyway, so spread doesn’t make much of a difference unless the spread is insanely high.

[InfernoKun]

I avoid using shotguns mostly because I aim terrible with them xD It sure does hurt when they one shot me as Sparks :c

[Someordinaryguy]

As someone already said, Kangaroo Aura/Proxy is annoying to play against as squisher mercs, for example I need to dump 1/3 (1/2) of my mag as Sparks with the Empire-9 to kill Aura but she can bunnyhop around and still 1-2 bang me mid-air without any penalty to accuracy whatsoever