How combat is communicated...


(PixelTwitch) #1

I have been thinking long and hard about why a game that is so well made is so frustrating…
Many people will point to balance, variation and modes to why the game is not fun…
While I would say the aforementioned systems are the reason the game is not great I do not believe that they have much direct correlation to the fun factor itself. I feel more work could be done on communicating what is happening both to the players doing damage and to the players receiving damage in order to reduce certain frustrations from play. Some of these will come from slight system changes and others will come from cosmetic changes such as animation and telegraphs.

A great example with this is the current revive shield system… If you remove the shield revived players get frustrated but with the shield here the people shooting the revived person are frustrated and you end up running out of ammo, hearing lots of hit beeps and doing little damage. The way around this would be to make a decent compromise that hardly effects the game but reduces frustration for both groups of players. Obviously there are lots of issues with performance when doing multiple traces per shots (hence why only slow firing weapons do it) but that is not to say a simple solution could not work.

Add a “getting up” animation to revived players and give them a revive shield for 2 seconds (animation should take around 1 second) but during this time have the player not block traces… The player being revived is still getting the spawn protection, the player shooting the revived player is not getting the hit beeps and the player shooting the revived person can still shoot at people behind the revived player without his bullets getting blocked. At the same time when FF is online it will prevent the reviving medic from shooting his own team mate. Providing this is done with a simple animation such as the revived player having his arms coving his head till the end of the duration in third person providing he does not try and fire.

Also doing a simple Camera check clientside to determine who the enemy is trying to look at and then doing local animation offsets would prevent some of the frustration involved with getting killed by people not looking at you.

Making the hit beep volume scale of damage done better communicates the damage you are doing. Base it off percentage of the enemy you are shootings hp you have removed (so beeps would appear quieter shooting heavy set Mercs). That way when you shoot someone with a shotgun at 10feet and do 10 damage you know instantly and can easier believe you only did the 10 damage rather then dying and seeing the enemies hp and being like “WHAT I HIT HIM 5 TIMES!!”

Have visual tracers every few bullets from a SMG and AR to give a better idea… Some people think this can be bad communication as it can look like a tracer hits when the actual bullet trace missed. However, I believe if you que the trace (do the same trace twice but at different times) you can actually sync the tracer with the bullet trace based of its hit location. This would allow for much higher tracer accuracy then most other systems and will better show bullet spread than the current system.

Having sharper subsounds on third person weapon fire can also give slightly better audio awareness to where people are positioned in a room.

There are many small things that will not effect gameplay much that will reduce frustrations.


(Mustang) #2

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;509244]A great example with this is the current revive shield system… If you remove the shield revived players get frustrated but with the shield here the people shooting the revived person are frustrated and you end up running out of ammo, hearing lots of hit beeps and doing little damage. The way around this would be to make a decent compromise that hardly effects the game but reduces frustration for both groups of players. Obviously there are lots of issues with performance when doing multiple traces per shots (hence why only slow firing weapons do it) but that is not to say a simple solution could not work.

Add a “getting up” animation to revived players and give them a revive shield for 2 seconds (animation should take around 1 second) but during this time have the player not block traces… The player being revived is still getting the spawn protection, the player shooting the revived player is not getting the hit beeps and the player shooting the revived person can still shoot at people behind the revived player without his bullets getting blocked. At the same time when FF is online it will prevent the reviving medic from shooting his own team mate. Providing this is done with a simple animation such as the revived player having his arms coving his head till the end of the duration in third person providing he does not try and fire.[/QUOTE]
Current system is fine for me, no need to special case it this much.

Yes.

Make the hitbeeps louder would be enough for me, I’d rather not have dynamic volume scaling, so perhaps make it optional.

Don’t we already have tracers?

3D positioning and through wall/obstacle audio could be better for sure, not sure what “sharper subsounds” means though.


(n4ts) #3

The only thing that this game is missing:



(PixelTwitch) #4

we find it easy to locate of high sounds.
I mean sub sounds as in sounds that are added under the weapon firing that are subtle.
A slight sharp “TISSK” kinda sound.

I think you had tracers but I think they are removed and inaccurate due to being drawn on the actual trace rather then starting the animation a few ticks earlier.


(k0k0nat) #5

Visuals for a revive shield, yes! People who did not play ET in the first time will just permanently shoot players with a shield.

Sound: TL: DR Most times I cant even tell where players around me are, if they are not shooting around. The in-game audio is just blääh. Way too much noise and not enough clearness. Predicting enemies by in-game sound is almost impossible.

Hit sounds and traces are almost the last things to worry about. :confused:


(tokamak) #6

I kind of gotten used to Brink’s audio where as a medic you recognise team-mate screams better. So I still keep running into screaming enemies hoping I can help team-mates out in DB.

But I assume SD knows what they’re doing on this front. ETQW was excellent in team and objective communication and Brink was excellent in combat communication. It’s only a matter of time.

I really, really like to see ETQW’s vsay menu back though. And this time with more context sensitivity. Like pointing at objectives (walls, pumps, fallen teammates or people low on ammo) and clicking means that you’re announcing to the team that you’re about to commit to that objective.


(Glottis-3D) #7

this will be great.
with additional 2-second flashing arrow for teammates. to tell exactly whatare you talking about. ofcourse that arrow has to be turned-off-able


(Smooth) #8

Many improvements here were made a while ago but more work is planned to enhance hit feedback, both dealing and receiving damage.

You shouldn’t be hearing hit beeps when hitting a shielded player (definitely not the same ones) and there should be different hit effects and maybe even a visual shield effect on the Merc. This work is already planned.

There are definite issues with the 3rd person player-model weapon-aim not matching up with where the bullets are actually being fired. It’s an issue that we will do our best to resolve but we need to spend more time investigating first.

This has been designed and tasked up for quite a while now, it’s just not as high priority as other work at the moment.

I like this idea, will add it to the list for a programmer to look at

We are aware of many issues with 3d positional audio, incorrect volumes etc. and are striving to resolve these as time goes on.


(PixelTwitch) #9

Thanks smooth this has got to be one of the best replies I have seen by a dev so far. Sharp and straight to the point :slight_smile: Normally I would be writing 10 more paragraphs right now but you basically hit the nail on the head with each point right away. Just one quick little mention.

You shouldn’t be hearing hit beeps when hitting a shielded player (definitely not the same ones) and there should be different hit effects and maybe even a visual shield effect on the Merc. This work is already planned.

I do not use the “hit beeps” hit beeps I have them turned off because I prefer the default hit beeps.
I would not know if the “hit beeps” hit beeps play on shooting a shielded player but I know the default ones do.

I do still feel work needs to be done on the revive shield in general outside of pure communication though.


(spookify) #10

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;509267]Thanks smooth this has got to be one of the best replies I have seen by a dev so far. Sharp and straight to the point :slight_smile: Normally I would be writing 10 more paragraphs right now but you basically hit the nail on the head with each point right away. Just one quick little mention.

I do not use the “hit beeps” hit beeps I have them turned off because I prefer the default hit beeps.
I would not know if the “hit beeps” hit beeps play on shooting a shielded player but I know the default ones do.

I do still feel work needs to be done on the revive shield in general outside of pure communication though.[/QUOTE]

I know 2 people in this Alpha/beta that have quit uninstalled and are never coming back because of default hit sounds… That pop or snap that you hear when hitting a player with hit-sounds off…

There should be a OFF, Default and Hit Sounds Beep Option…

Shame they quit they were some of the best in every game they touched… And no joke the only reason they quit was because of the default hit sound…


(Glottis-3D) #11

that means they were not very good for testing =)


(INF3RN0) #12

I hit what I aim at 99% of the time, so if it goes wrong it’s likely my error or delayed damage or sometimes a bug. People tell me there’s lag compensation, no reg, high spread, etc- but I’ve been playing on handicap since NA died in a fire and I find giving this kind of stuff too much attention hasn’t really changed much. Just let spook own a pub and grow the player base to where we can sustain our own regions (matchmaking too)- and just watch all the problems disappear :tongue:


(spookify) #13

I guess I sort of get the context of your post here. My post on this thread was a simple idea of a hit sound Menu - OFF, Default and Hit Sounds Beep Option and maybe even Headshots only…

Not to take this to far out of context but I also play on euro servers almost all the time so we are both handicappable haha!!

If I understand your post correctly then when Match Making and a large player base is formed there will be a more even playing field. USA vs USA and all the same skill level or around the same.

If I could do further in-depth on your post :wink: this Match Making and Larger Player Base and lets say RANKED* games will take away the spook pub star aspect and I will be forced into a more team based play? Correct :smiley:

This brings up a good point in Game Modes… SW, OLTL and OJB… I love the SW and OLTL as everyone knows but OBJ ugh!!! Make a fragging mode that isnt a cluster like TDM!! Be creative and have a sweet 3rd mode. Or Balance Objective more or have multi OJB that both teams can do…