Hint brushes


(shagileo) #1

Taken from:

http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17094

Woah, I just keep on asking questions, but I need to know; I want to master the Hint brush Tibet Art (aka HBTA)

When I hint brush the map, will I see any effect when BSP’ing via -meta mode? or should I use -vis stage?
How am I able to see the effect of the hints? I mean, /r_showtris 2 command doesn’t do shiot. It just keeps on showing the whole map but in tris, even if I take a look at professional hint worked maps like MLB Carnage Canyon … when I do the showtris 2 command , I just see the whole map in ‘white’ lines (=tris).

Is there a way to see the effect (without looking at the FPS performance?)

many thx for answering/reading


(pazur) #2

This is the tutorial that helped me to understand hint brushes:

http://www.wemakemaps.com/hintbrushes2.htm

This one should help as well:

http://www.wolfensteinx.com/surface/tutorials/r_speeds.html

… and you need a real compile with a -vis stage.


(-SSF-Sage) #3

r_showtris 1 shows what YOU can see
r_showtris 2 shows you what the engine can see (=these are drawn)

With r_showtris 2 you can check what areas are blocked and how the hints are affected, it’s about the only way to confirm what you’ve “done” in your head.

For hint brushes to take effect you need to do both bsp meta and vis compiles. If you are lacking the vis compile, the whole map will be drawn.

Summary:

r_speeds 1:

To see the effect of your vis you can check r_speeds 1 to see how many tris is drawn, I consider having 15-25 k ok for an empty map, but the less the merrier for fps. Ofc if all action and players are packed into one bunch, fps can drop a lot anyway, and that is up to the designer of the map layout.

FPS:

FPS is a way to check the performance, but it is very unefficient and inaccurate method when you are determining how efficient the vis blocking is. Best way still I see is to check with r_showtris 2

r_showtris 2:

r_showtris 2 is really something something. With it you can check if the areas can or can’t see each other. If you designed the hint brush work in a certain way, and after vis compile, it still don’t block, then something is wrong. Usually it’s up to the blocking structures, a “leak” (for example window) in vis or something.

What I do:

I check fps all the time ofc, but I don’t rely anything on it.

My main worry is r_speeds, I check all the time how much tris I have and how much I do need to get rid of or how much I can put more detail.

During the process of building my maps, I tend make EVERY brush detail (faster light compile). When the brushwork begins to be quite ready, I start working on the vis. I first go around and turn certain brushes structural and add hints. That is the time when I start checking with r_showtris 2. Now don’t get me wrong, I plan the map from the very beginning with consern of vis, I build the brushwork so I can easily have cheap structural brushes. And in the end it’s just matter of adding the planned hints and turn the wanted brushes structural. I have it all in my head.

Btw. One thing I still don’t get. In many detail vs structural tutorials there’s an example of a noobish mapper, who made a great map, but where every brush is structural. And they say it’s too much work or useless. It’s really hard to understand, cos I keep all brushes detail to the very end. And all brushes are turned into detail with a couple simple clicks. Ok ofc they might not have planned the brushwork or layout with understand of vis.


(kamikazee) #4

Seems Obisidian’s fine tutorial from Quake3World has not been mentioned here yet…
Quake3World: Advanced Portal and Hinting Optimization Tutorial.


(DerSaidin) #5

http://tremmapping.pbwiki.com/Understanding%20Vis%20and%20Hint%20Brushes
http://www.nibsworld.com/rtcw/tutorial_detail_and_hint_brushes_part1.shtml

In the editor theres a way to toggle detail/structural brushes (ctrl+d) perhaps. Play with that.


(shagileo) #6

Alright, thanks guys !

Understanding is one part (most important one), but now I have to check out if I can make it happen.

Gonna face the demon ^^


(Marko) #7

Here’s an extra one if you want details on the Q3 BSP Process and how to optimize performance (reduce tris, using hints & area portals):
Q3 engine BSP Process


(shagileo) #8

Yeah thanks Marko for the site (but that site was the first site I looked at ^^ … it’s a good site, but I had some other questions too)

Ultimate question:

When I have the MAX_MAP_VISIBILITY exceeded error… with no hint brushes in my map so far. When I’ll start to Hint the map, will the error go away, or is the map wasted for good?
So :

MAXVIS exceeded => hint brushes solve that problem?

thanks again,


(IndyJones) #9

they MAY solve the problem. for me it was not enough, i had too many detail brushes (on i taly - houses in the background, roofs etc)


(kamikazee) #10

Indeed,the best way is to (re-)plan your detail / structural brushes. Hinting is mostly just polishing if you properly designed your map.


(shagileo) #11

And here is where it goes wrong …
:cool:

nono, ok , soooo, what I learn about this all is:

1 : Hint brushes DO improve FPS performance
2: They’re no miracle workers. Plan your map well in order to place those Hint brushes in the correct way => see 1
3: Better play with those structural/detailed textures in order to see more effect on the FPS
4: Ultimate solution: combine correct structural/detail brushes and hint brushes for a good FPS map

Thanks guys for helping me out! I learned a lot, and it would’ve been possible without the help of all these great names in this topic… thanks!

grtz,


(Marko) #12

I’d just like to add 1 point to this:
Adding an odd HINT brush can sometimes greatly decrease performance… meaning don’t put hint brushes randonmly in a map :slight_smile:


(Avoc) #13

[QUOTE=Marko;182628]I’d just like to add 1 point to this:
Adding an odd HINT brush can sometimes greatly decrease performance… meaning don’t put hint brushes randonmly in a map :)[/QUOTE]

I can vouch for this!

Especially in open area maps. When you place hint brushes, be sure to MAKE SURE they ACTUALLY help and not just create portals. Don’t ask why, just don’t place random hintbrushes that do not help =P