"Help up" = "Get fragged again"

(k0k0nat) #1

I want to discuss about this general ability:

It would have been a useful introduction when there were no spawn-time issues and the balancing would be “O.K.”

You introduced this ability at the same time when body shots got buffed.
Actually it just takes a random bullet to the body to frag somebody that just has been revived by this ability.

Also, why the extremely long time to cast this ability?
The fights are SO FAST and never-ending, that you can not use “help up” in most cases.

There is also no shield whatsoever on the revived player. The only option is running back the a medic ( who are usually not there because nobody plays them) or selfkill.

Again… Re spawning or Selfkilling >>>>>>>>>>>> “Help Up”.
Complaining about this gets boring :frowning:

(BomBaKlaK) #2

For me this not a real problem as it is, if it become quicker then I prefer to remove it entirely. This is a bit useless but it can be uselfull in some situation. Spawn time and most of all short travel time to obj make this global ability really useless for the moment.

(INF3RN0) #3

I’ve only used it on obj proficient mercs and medics mostly, otherwise it’s rarely worth it for either player.

(Glottis-3D) #4

i only use it for girl-mercs. so that they would be greatful for saving them and you could hang out sometime

(tokamak) #5

That’s the idea.

I do agree with the way you’re exposed though. But that’s not because of the time it takes. It’s because instinctively I would want to go prone while helping someone up, and right now it feels like I’m jumping up and down, waving my arms and taunting my opponents while helping someone up.

(Silvanoshi) #6

As Tokamak has already mentioned, the “help up” mechanic is not designed to be used even 50% of the time you come across a dead ally. Personally, the way that I use it is to look to help up your fellow Mercs only in very specific scenarios; when you’re at a forward position and in decent cover, or once you’ve cleared an area and need to try and get an OBJ merc up and on the point.

(montheponies) #7

Yeah, in specific circumstances I’ll give it a go, mostly won’t though. Do not want to see the ability time reduced as this would clearly bleed (no pun intended) into the Meds job.

(Humate) #8

Seems super situational on paper… why wouldnt you just respawn?
Maybe this mechanic is for data purposes only.

(tokamak) #9

It’s just there. It doesn’t break the game and maybe once every ten or hundred games it could lead to an interesting plot twist. When or more importantly, when not to use it is a matter of experience and balls.

(k0k0nat) #10

[QUOTE=Humate;504237]Seems super situational on paper… why wouldnt you just respawn?
Maybe this mechanic is for data purposes only.[/QUOTE]

yop, thats excatly why i thought.

(Exedore) #11

I’m not sure what you mean by “data purposes”. You wouldn’t respawn when your teammate(s) has successfully cleared the area near an objective and the travel time + respawn wave time would be longer than the help-up time. I definitely think that it can improve the feeling of teamwork when it’s used well.

It also encourages finishing off incapped opponents regardless of the presence of defib-equipped enemies.

(Mustang) #12

Never going to happen with current spawn times and travel distances, not to mention your mate is a sitting duck and you are brought back up with zero health and ammo, when compared to a respawn.

I’d like to see at little more health on a help up and a spawn shield.

(Exedore) #13

I can’t quite buy the absoluteness this travel distance argument when we have dozens of posts detailing the irregularities in the travel distances across the maps.

We’ll of course tune it as needed, while protecting the specialist role of Defibs.

(PixelTwitch) #14

Actually there are multiple issues here…
While in many cases it CAN be faster to pick someone up off the ground once the defenders have been killed off there are multiple things to keep in mind…

While a teammate is picking you up they are a sitting duck… During this time they are unable to give ammo/hp, do objectives or even cover/keep an eye out for trouble. This can often lead to lots of deaths picking people up. You need to consider the HP/AMMO of your character because sometimes a fresh respawn is worth it especially for the health if you are lacking a medic. This is a core issue… The idea of the pickup is so you can be revived without a medic. However unless you are a medic that is being revived you are at a MASSIVE disadvantage on the pick up until a medic arrives. Public players are also over prioritising the pick up over objectives causing many frustrations. The key is the same as other keys so keep trying to pick people up and end up planting or using a turret. When talking about distances for instance… often on the activation of an objective you would want to back off to stronger positions and Line of sight becomes more important than physical location.

I like the pick up honestly…
Its just VERY situational…

Personally I would like it to be a second or two faster due to the low HP you revive with. I would also like the icon to be smaller above bodies.
But hey… Honestly… I could take or leave the whole system…

(DJswirlyAlien) #15

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;504358]Actually there are multiple issues here…
While in many cases it CAN be faster to pick someone up off the ground once the defenders have been killed off there are multiple things to keep in mind…

While a teammate is picking you up they are a sitting duck… During this time they are unable to give ammo/hp, do objectives or even cover/keep an eye out for trouble. This can often lead to lots of deaths picking people up. You need to consider the HP/AMMO of your character because sometimes a fresh respawn is worth it especially for the health if you are lacking a medic. This is a core issue… The idea of the pickup is so you can be revived without a medic. However unless you are a medic that is being revived you are at a MASSIVE disadvantage on the pick up until a medic arrives. Public players are also over prioritising the pick up over objectives causing many frustrations. The key is the same as other keys so keep trying to pick people up and end up planting or using a turret. When talking about distances for instance… often on the activation of an objective you would want to back off to stronger positions and Line of sight becomes more important than physical location.

I like the pick up honestly…
Its just VERY situational…

Personally I would like it to be a second or two faster due to the low HP you revive with. I would also like the icon to be smaller above bodies.
But hey… Honestly… I could take or leave the whole system…[/QUOTE]

I agree with this. Make it a little quicker or make picking up stackable. Hey it’s still team work.

(Humate) #16

[QUOTE=Exedore;504348] You wouldn’t respawn when your teammate(s) has successfully cleared the area near an objective and the travel time + respawn wave time would be longer than the help-up time. I definitely think that it can improve the feeling of teamwork when it’s used well.

It also encourages finishing off incapped opponents regardless of the presence of defib-equipped enemies.[/QUOTE]

I wouldnt respawn if the objective room was on lock… and I knew the remaining 3 players on the team could maintain that status.

(Exedore) #17

Hey, we never said this was a cornerstone of DB!

(PixelTwitch) #18

Na, I get that :slight_smile:

Was just meaning in the current scheme of things there is probably a lot more “important” stuff we could be talking about. My personal thoughts on the system are still really undecided… Still trying to figure out if its just a distraction or if its worth the times when it works.

ANYWAY… Them cornerstones you was talking about… Any more details?
:stuck_out_tongue:

(Exedore) #19

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;504386]ANYWAY… Them cornerstones you was talking about… Any more details?
:P[/QUOTE]
Super hot topic of conversation right now, especially in how we get this across to you all. We’ve had several hours of meetings about these things today, so it’ll take a little while for that to percolate through.

(PixelTwitch) #20

word of advice… you will never be able to put it across to us without us kicking off about it :wink:
I think all most of us are wanting is you to TELL us what is happening… don’t try and get us on board!
The majority of us trust you… its the feedback from people we do not trust… :smiley: