spookify said it right.
so what i would like not to see in DB fights:
so i vote for
i also dislike full-HP revive. should be 75% at max.
There’s a difference between taking cover and sitting back to regain.
Taking cover should be encouraged. It allows for players contesting areas and chokes and it mean they can dictate and limit other people’s movement through suppressive fire. This is what makes COD fights so intense. It’s constantly people jumping in and kicking back.
If that regen would be too slow it would mean people getting hit and running away.
So I agree that some regen should kick in, as fast as possible. And then S-curve toward 50% (or lower) and stop there. Filling that limit can also be rather fast. Just having that leeway right there will make fights much more dynamic.
[QUOTE=Phandy;515009]What do you guys think of the up-to 50%(or chosen %) only health regen. Anti told me it was in Brink, I think its in some other games too.
Its where you can only get back 50% of your health, basic regen. You need a medic or med-box to heal back up to 100%?
Its like a halfway solution. Anyone played games with this mechanic in? Not sure I have.[/QUOTE]For the sake of discussion, what would happen in a chicken an egg scenario i:e med revives, but he’s a useless med who doesn’t charge his defibs so he gives out 30% health or something like that. Would the regen still only go to 50%?
If so, maybe better to have a fixed hp regen i:e 50hp rather than 50% hp
[QUOTE=tokamak;515034]There’s a difference between taking cover and sitting back to regain.
Taking cover should be encouraged. It allows for players contesting areas and chokes and it mean they can dictate and limit other people’s movement through suppressive fire. This is what makes COD fights so intense. It’s constantly people jumping in and kicking back.
If that regen would be too slow it would mean people getting hit and running away.
So I agree that some regen should kick in, as fast as possible. And then S-curve toward 50% (or lower) and stop there. Filling that limit can also be rather fast. Just having that leeway right there will make fights much more dynamic.[/QUOTE]
There is no real cover in this game… especially cover while pushed out… For cover you will need to run back to spawn haha! But for real with how fast people are they will get you in no time just sitting there…
Revives can always be handled differently of course. But for starters it would be interesting to see it only go to 50%. In ET the revives were also low health, didn’t recharge and full-health revives was a huge upgrade.
It would be nice seeing medics more involved in the process again. They know who they’ve just revived and they know that person still needs health (if they didn’t charge). So there’s no excuse for them not to take it into account.
[QUOTE=Sun_Sheng;515039]For the sake of discussion, what would happen in a chicken an egg scenario i:e med revives, but he’s a useless med who doesn’t charge his defibs so he gives out 30% health or something like that. Would the regen still only go to 50%?
If so, maybe better to have a fixed hp regen i:e 50hp rather than 50% hp[/QUOTE]
Err, I guess if they didn’t get hit by anyone for the required time, default health regen would kick in and bring you up to 50%.
It can be a percentage or a health value I guess.
I just never see it as a suggestion here and thought I’d ask to see if people had played games with it before. Was just a thought.
[QUOTE=tokamak;515041]Revives can always be handled differently of course. But for starters it would be interesting to see it only go to 50%. In ET the revives were also low health, didn’t recharge and full-health revives was a huge upgrade.
It would be nice seeing medics more involved in the process again. They know who they’ve just revived and they know that person still needs health (if they didn’t charge). So there’s no excuse for them not to take it into account.[/QUOTE]
Yes, i’m starting to get desperate for the next update already. At the moment I rarely play med because it’s just so unrewarding an completely lacking in fun.
I can understand the desire not to create a new ET, but i’m starting to seriously fail to understand the thinking behind this new game. Even if the changes are reversed, as a med in ET, I could go in and revive someone, and in doing so they would have a fair chance of fighting without me needing to revive them again. For myself, I felt rewarded for my aim in so far as I could put a couple of bodyshots and 3 headies into someone and down they would go, then pick up my team mate and carry on. Here, I don’t even try to shoot the opposition because i’ve been killed so many times after putting 4 or 5 headshots into someone, then seeing them walk off, still with 30% health it just seems a waste of time. So I get my revive in and then go down and wait for my turn to respawn. It’s pointless and pathetic. And not much better before the patch.
All meds are there for is to sacrifice themselves so someone else can live. That’s it. Last time I went med I ended up 2/17. The way it’s going you might as well scrap them and just leave everyone to regen, because that appears to be what is wanted by SD. I’m heading into conspiracy theory here but it’s almost as if too many fast map times have shown how bad some of the maps are and the only way to counter it is by having people die regularly and not get revived 
I’ll shut up before I get into ranting mode. Too long a day 
[QUOTE=Phandy;515045]Err, I guess if they didn’t get hit by anyone for the required time, default health regen would kick in and bring you up to 50%.
It can be a percentage or a health value I guess.
I just never see it as a suggestion here and thought I’d ask to see if people had played games with it before. Was just a thought.[/QUOTE] aye, as I thought it has mileage, but as a personal opinion I’d prefer the fixed hp regen to the percentage, if things go that way. That is to say a guy who gets shot with a base HP of 100 goes down to 20, and regens back to his 50 because regen is fixed at 30. The guy who is revived back to 50 by the med though, he can then have his regen of 30 kick in to take him up to 80. Basically I just tend to favour ideas that bring back some purpose to the med role
[QUOTE=Orellien;515019]Two I can think of off the top of my head. One of the games that popularized regenerating health, Halo, had a regenerating shield which would recharge quickly, and health underneath it that would get depleted if your shields were breached that could only be restored with health packs. The other was the original Max Payne (and I think the sequel?), where you would slowly regen up to ~25% HP, and needed to use magic painkillers in order to restore the rest of it.
They seemed to have different points for me, though. In Max Payne it was a compromise to minimize Quick Save/Quick Load abuse, give you a chance in your next fight if you barely survive this one, and Halo… the health function felt more like an appendix, an unnecessary holdover from the era before regenerating health was in fashion.
Also, Glottis-3D’s post brought up a different alternative: Maybe a flat health level to regen up to (50 hp, for example) instead of percentage values?[/QUOTE]
The system is actually much more used…
Far Cry 2+3+4
Chronicles of Riddick
Many Fighting Games
Think even Quake Live is now doing it.
The problem is it is only a half solution and has more negatives than removing or keeping.
Mainly around communication, usefulness and game pace.
The idea I was trying to promote is based around keeping full health regen but simply tweaking it to each Mercs gameplay pace… Making landing a stray shot on an escaping light class means you have the chance of catching before their health regens and at the same time with the heavies, making both medics more desirable while encouraging more sustained fire to prevent the quick regen start time.
Honestly, you are never going to get as simple as basically on for all or off for all…
I just personally don’t believe that the game is as good as it could be pace wise and Merc style wise.
Promoting certain playstyles via as many systems as possible is (in my opinion) one of the best ways to show diversity between characters in game game that really when you break it down… is still 75% about hitting headshots than anything else. I still only really select my merc based on their weapon and somtimes ability.
[QUOTE=Phandy;515009]What do you guys think of the up-to 50%(or chosen %) only health regen. Anti told me it was in Brink, I think its in some other games too.
Its where you can only get back 50% of your health, basic regen. You need a medic or med-box to heal back up to 100%?
Its like a halfway solution. Anyone played games with this mechanic in? Not sure I have.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this, but 50% seems too strong, 90% would be justifiable, they would be entering a battle weaker than new spawns, and will make medics have more of a job (aura would be more useful)
not against health regen, seeming how medics can heal themselves, it would only make rambo medics more powerful if other classes can only heal to 50%
if health regen is dropped then their would have to be crates in spawn to get health back, players would /kill more often, and rambo medics would be stronger. all are bad solutions and effects.
leave health regen in, if anything don’t reduce the max health regen less than 80%
posters in this thread indicate that the health regen is stronger than it is, it is actually pretty slow and often times if health is too low it is better to /kill than wait for a medic or regen
What rambo medics? I barely every see a rambo medic over a rambo-fragger, rambo-vassili, rambo-proxy and rambo-stoker.
Medics are already focused on supporting role due too lower HP and inferior default guns. Plus, their health regen is barely faster than basic HP regen of other mercs.
I know there was no regen before, but I’d love to see how that looks like again, with only medics regenerating at current (or even slower) rate.
In most of the cases, players live and die by 1-2 spawn waves, typically without enough time to run out of ammo, or require much healing.
Regen was introduced, because so that ppl can go into the fights with full HP more often.
but why should they?
If they ended up 10-hp after fight why do you neglect the damage, that was dealt onto them?
i can understand the loadcard reward - a medpack from a dead medic. i love the idea. you killed a guy, and got a medpack reward and you get some HP back.
but why reward everyone? and why punish those who dealt damage ?
for me the good fight is when you can deal damage, even if you die you know that ppl on this side of map are weak, so you teammates can push there. OR enemy team will regroup - and medic will go to the damaged mercs. So they will leave lets say OBJ for several seconds. this is actual teamplay. the real example of ingame meta teamplay.
now none of this is happening. medics do not go anywhere - because of Regen. and your team do not get any advangate from your dealt damage.
i mean it is so ligocal.
“That guy killed me, but he is less than 10 hp. finish him!!”
If you was to remove health regen but allow medics to heal themselves you would end up with public turning into a rage filled medic party.
So many players would take the medic class with no intention to heal their team mates but simply to fight.
This will frustrate people that decide to not roll a medic due to seeing 3 medics on his team already.
It will frustrate the heavy classes that cannot get anyone to heal them and are constantly being beat down on.
I know that this was not the case in the previous games but the average player is not what they used to be either.
Imagine playing TF2 with no health packs on the field these days… would be infuriating. .
There is a difference between pub & comp play.
pub: Get hit, no medics or rambo medics -> not fun (hp regen required?)
comp: Get hit, medic heals you -> fun (no hp regen required)
EDIT: obv. not very good for the consistency of gameplay - unless DB is going to have matchmaking like mobas where players know they need support characters and the support characters have to support. Then it would be like that and I’d say turn hp regen off!
[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;515059]If you was to remove health regen but allow medics to heal themselves you would end up with public turning into a rage filled medic party.
So many players would take the medic class with no intention to heal their team mates but simply to fight.
This will frustrate people that decide to not roll a medic due to seeing 3 medics on his team already.
It will frustrate the heavy classes that cannot get anyone to heal them and are constantly being beat down on.
I know that this was not the case in the previous games but the average player is not what they used to be either.
Imagine playing TF2 with no health packs on the field these days… would be infuriating. .[/QUOTE]
i am not afraid of this at all. between useless medics and useful medics i choose useful.
but i understand, that regen is going to stay - so i think that it is necessary to make regen not as gameplay impactful as it is now.
now HP regen is all around and inside the fights all the microdesisions are hugely influenced by regen - be that your HP regen or enemy’s.
and i want this to change. so that HP regen even if exists - wont make someone choose fighting tactics.
just a taste of HP regen, not the full dish.
[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;515061]i am not afraid of this at all. between useless medics and useful medics i choose useful.
but i understand, that regen is going to stay - so i think that it is necessary to make regen not as gameplay impactful as it is now.
now HP regen is all around and inside the fights all the microdesisions are hugely influenced by regen - be that your HP regen or enemy’s.
and i want this to change. so that HP regen even if exists - wont make someone choose fighting tactics.
just a taste of HP regen, not the full dish.[/QUOTE]
This is effectively why I made this thread.
Slow regen on that starts very early on a heavy means that…
A) He still needs medic support.
B) There is no point hiding behind a corner for a full min to regen.
Same with the lights…
A) lower the chance of them escaping…
B) Reward them for escaping
C) Reduce the need for a medic (cause the class is designed to be out of position)
If regen is here to stay, I vote for Pixel’s solution.
Otherwise, just drop it ffs, keep it for medics only, 5hp base (as is now), up to 7-10hp or sth if healed (by themselves or another medic).
This prevents any ramboing, as actually a fragger with medic bckup would be much more able to swiftly return to battle, if medics want to fight themselves they have to wait it out, meanwhile healing&reviving others - supportive role.
Crazy idea:
How about pretty fast HP regen, that starts when your team spawned (spawn wave triggered regen).
you will be full (or almost full) HP when all team spawned - you can go with you team and Push.
more teampush = more teamplay.
It’s a very thin line. A few changes and the Medic reverts back to the old role again. They’re still the most k/d friendly class to play. It used to be much more powerful and we had entire teams of rambo sawbonez.
The thing is, medics should be the class with the lowest k/d ratios. Only then you know they’re going around sacrificing themselves to keep the team going. Of course good medics know how to stay alive and get involved in combat when necessary, but so does any other well-played merc.