Seriously, this has to stop NOW. Where are these newbies flowing in from? People come here and derail every thread for the sake of arguing over meaningless differences in opinion. Subjective/argumentative discussions(ex: Are video games art?) will spawn hundreds of posts and is best to open a new thread for the purpose of discussing it, also a poll should be added to all subjective discussions.
Furthermore, arguing over plain facts is stupid. It’s well known that the mobile gaming platform is successful and its usergroup is not only kids. If you disagree or can’t find much proof to back up any side of the story, open a new thread as it’s an subjective discussion and is best served with a poll(ex: Your age and how much you play on mobile platforms).
I end my rant with the hope of this forum becoming a cleaner place to discuss matters of bigger importance without reading WOTs and usually going through pages of dialogues(if they spawn, use pm/irc or whatever).
To the topic then .Handhelds like psp and ds in my opinion cannot be considered a platform of immersive(probably the small screen) and serious gaming(hardcore).These are most for kids and those who want to pass some hours when they travel.Mobile gaming is more focused to an adult audience and have some really funny games but most of them are 2d and dont have the quality of the console pc games.Brink is designed to be played at a console/pc.Now they could design a new seperate brink for handhelds that could be more simplistic in able to play.
Ah, so you are the Final Arbiter of All Arguments, and your word is law here. Glad to find out who has final say on all discussions, but I must’ve missed the memo on your function.
I disagree. These discussions are extensions of the original topic, and a free-flowing argument is much more lucid and productive than having a yes/no poll for every question hat is raised. Having hundreds of posts is far better than a forum with no posts. ‘Are video game art’ is relevant to the prior discussion regarding the value of handheld games. If you aren’t interested in the discussion, don’t post in it–don’t even read it–but don’t tell other people that we have to censor ourselves and not discuss it because the conversation has naturally moved on from the original topic.
As long as no one is trolling, spamming or griefing.
[QUOTE=Herandar;264752]Ah, so you are the Final Arbiter of All Arguments, and your word is law here. Glad to find out who has final say on all discussions, but I must’ve missed the memo on your function.
I disagree. These discussions are extensions of the original topic, and a free-flowing argument is much more lucid and productive than having a yes/no poll for every question hat is raised. Having hundreds of posts is far better than a forum with no posts. ‘Are video game art’ is relevant to the prior discussion regarding the value of handheld games. If you aren’t interested in the discussion, don’t post in it–don’t even read it–but don’t tell other people that we have to censor ourselves and not discuss it because the conversation has naturally moved on from the original topic.
As long as no one is trolling, spamming or griefing.[/QUOTE]
Part 1: Fine. I’m not arguing about whether or not video games are art. Go read my longer post on page 3 and respond to that. That was meant to defend my position.
Part 2: I agree with you. The conversation is related and far more interesting, IMO.
[QUOTE=murka;264718]Seriously, this has to stop NOW. Where are these newbies flowing in from? People come here and derail every thread for the sake of arguing over meaningless differences in opinion. Subjective/argumentative discussions(ex: Are video games art?) will spawn hundreds of posts and is best to open a new thread for the purpose of discussing it, also a poll should be added to all subjective discussions.
Furthermore, arguing over plain facts is stupid. It’s well known that the mobile gaming platform is successful and its usergroup is not only kids. If you disagree or can’t find much proof to back up any side of the story, open a new thread as it’s an subjective discussion and is best served with a poll(ex: Your age and how much you play on mobile platforms).
I end my rant with the hope of this forum becoming a cleaner place to discuss matters of bigger importance without reading WOTs and usually going through pages of dialogues(if they spawn, use pm/irc or whatever).[/QUOTE]
Lol so I’m a newbie now because I dont have 1500 posts like you nerd? I am really excited about this game (since I have played every SD game to date) and I browse this forum in my off time. Only a true jackass thinks that the measure of his importance is his post count.
Also, I love how you get embroiled in the argument by saying it should be settled with a poll in another thread. What are you, a site administrator? No. Besides polls definitely shouldn’t settle an issue about whether or not video games are art, because idiots who have no idea what they are talking about will decide the outcome of a topic of discussion that has been going for like a thousand years (what is art?). You don’t like the convo, hit the bricks pal.
[QUOTE=Nail;264761]Let me ask you, if video games aren’t or don’t contain art, why do video game developers hire more Artists (yes capital A) than any other medium ?
This is why I dont want to argue about whether it’s art or not. nearly everything qualifies as art. If i take a crap on the floor and smear it into shapes is that art? Sure, but could you ever compare it to Rembrandt? Once again, my point is that video games are a low form of art.
my point is you have no idea what you are talking about, low art is TV rap music, boy bands, South Park, reality TV, “JackAss”, Ashton Kucher movies, political speeches, and Paris Hilton. If you don’t think Tully’s work is art, maybe have a look at her sculptures, what are they, Action Figures ?
You just fail dude. Do you have any system of qualifying what is good art and bad art? didn’t think so. Instead of just using one-liners and not backing up any of your claims, why not explain what makes video games “high art”? Can you do that? or will you instead resort to one liners? Please, enlighten me: what makes video games “high art”?
Incredible. So anything that uses an “artist” (whatever the hell that means) is high art? Jesus christ dude. I guess hentai is high art, and live action porn is low art. That’s a problem.
I suggest you read what you quoted, reread your post. Possibly repeat 10x because you have no reading comprehension what so ever.
In anticipation of “non native language” and such arguments packed with personal attacks i will add that i mean the thinking skills are lacking. It’s like reading a book/watching a movie with a deep plot, most will not understand. If you fail to gasp a concept, how are we supposed to make it clear to you?
In this whole thread, you have given few points to discuss about, but quite a lot more personal attacks. I really have to ask, why? Are you incapable of discussing like educated people while not being offensive and oppressive?
Let me provide some examples:
*You attack me with the “your postcount is higher” argument.
*You fail to properly comprehend my post thinking that i wanted people to stop discussing whereas i said clearly that extensive continuations might be lengthy and is best to open a new thread, not packs everything in one thread. It also helps sort what is important to some people. This is quite a known method of bringing contrast and over-scaling my opinion to suit negative responses.
*You fail to comprehend Nail’s post about art, he did back up his claim, yet you demand him to provide proof to his claims.
*You stating that I’m not an administrator. This is a well known tactic of stating something true yet irrelevant to gain reputation. Most politics use it.
*You do not accept differences in opinion. You state that Rembrandt is high-art yet video games low-art. For me, some games provide a deeper emotional value than most paintings.
Also, definition of newb=new to something/somewhere. I don’t see how it could offend you. Just stating what’s true.
At least I write as much as I can to relate my perspective. The trouble is no one ever reads it. My posts are like pictures to everyone and they equate surface area of letters to my “defiance”. And it perpetuates because I end up writing more to be objective and state where they’re wrong and why. So all I see is that I’m generally disliked for not sharing the herd mentality. Which is the very thing being complained about with casual gamers directing the evolution of video games.
I never said it was unsuccessful. Games like Brink, Mass Effect, Borderlands, Fallout 3 have yet to appear on portables. The PSP could run circles around Deus Ex so it’s not like it can’t be done. Games with great design depth don’t “fit” on the portable platform. I know I’m just being ridiculous now, but every time someone says what they think my viewpoint is I have to say “no, that’s not what I meant either.” I think it would be great if someone from the industry could tell us why an elaborate FPS couldn’t be placed into a hand held. What is stopping them? No one understands/agrees with my reasoning so I haven’t been clear nor accurate.
So everyone should just be in unanimous agreement at all times and we can be a dystopia. Just because someone has a different viewpoint doesn’t mean it’s their fault others have uncivilized reactions. If the topic doesn’t seem very important then don’t participate. If a thread on gospel music was started I would not open it. With your succeeding posts you seem to be referring to just II Captain K II. This is another issue with forums. It’s too overwhelming to always track all members so generalized plural pronouns such as “everyone” and “people” are used to describe what text is frequent regardless if even it’s just one member. If someone changes an avatar it could make it even more confusing. Lately I’m being nagged a lot for “derailing” or “defiance” or “delinquency” so when you use “people” I assume I fall there.
You started the argument. No one understands your viewpoint because you haven’t said much about it. There’s more explaining to be done on your part.
[QUOTE=II Captain K II;264758]Lol so I’m a newbie now because I dont have 1500 posts like you nerd? Only a true jackass thinks that the measure of his importance is his post count.
You don’t like the convo, hit the bricks pal.
[/QUOTE]
That’s what you get for not defending your point about art. Sans the personal attack you’re correct though. Post count is not an SAT score.
If that’s true, then what is the issue with having video games called art?
If you’re assigning various tiers and saying art is loosely defined, then why is it wrong to you to have video games encompassed within?
We don’t have much of a grasp of this concept so you’re being too vague.
It sounds like you study art and we don’t understand what you mean by this. What are the refined senses and emotions that must be engaged that only high art can do?
I speak for myself when I agree with you about this. I don’t need to believe I’m experiencing art to make video games seem worth my time. So I don’t think everyone calls video games art to bolster their self worth.
This is the part you’ve yet to discuss.
If you had read my post you ignored, you would have learned that I’m not really one-sided on this.
Learn forum etiquette and don’t quote the entire post (that you didn’t read) which directly precedes yours anyways. You’re saying it’s unimportant and you won’t read it, but you’ve reproduced it for everyone to see and scroll through a second time.
I’ll admit I can’t because I don’t study art. But it would be helpful if you described high art and gave examples. Then talk about how video games are low art or not classified at all.
So something can’t be high art unless the artist has a reputation?
This is a sticking point that I want to avoid from here on out. I made a bad choice of words saying that video games aren’t art. What I meant is clarified in (2): namely that by calling them art I personally feel that they are being given an elevated value that they don’t deserve. This part is just my opinion, and I may very well be wrong. I don’t want to argue about it because I don’t care.
Fair enough. As I stated above, let’s just move past this. From now on, video games are art.
I believe that they are a lower form of art, because of number (4).
I do not in fact study art. I am simply building what seems to be a plausible theory of the value of art here. I defined only low art, so negatively I have defined high art. High art is art that does not engage the reptilian parts of our brain. High art does not satisfy sexual desire, violence, intrigue or foolishness (as with comedy). Low art aims to satisfy the above emotions. Since video games almost always aim to satisfy said emotions, I declare them to be low art.
I Believe you, but I think many people are not that way. I think many gamers do need to justify their choice to engage in such vapid activities by trying to praise video games as something more valuable than they really are. Again, this is just a sense I get after having spent years talking to gamers on the internet. For more of this, see the reaction to Roger Ebert’s “video games are not art” statement.
To clarify through example, I believe men such as Rembrandt, David, Mozart to be great artists of the highest order. Anyone who has listened to Mozart understands the beauty of the music. Every note is so perfectly placed that you can almost hear it before it is played. And not in the crass predictable sense in which you can see a cheap scare coming in a horror flick. They engage our higher senses, the most refined parts of the brain. They cause introspection and reflection, with originality to boot (something video games are sorely lacking in).
I do apologize for not reading your post and writing it off. I was just frustrated because every response I have gotten has been somebody trying to convince me that video games fit into the category of art. As I have said about half a dozen times now, I do not care about the technical definition of art right now. I will go back and read your post now.
Furthermore, I really appreciate your straightforward way of questioning what I’m saying. Numbering the things you take issue with is a very clear way of doing things. Far too often arguments on forums degrade into THAT MAKES NO SENSE LOL, which is what the moron Murka just did.
*You attack me with the “your postcount is higher” argument.
No, you essentially began that by calling me a newb. What is the point?
*You fail to properly comprehend my post thinking that i wanted people to stop discussing whereas i said clearly that extensive continuations might be lengthy and is best to open a new thread, not packs everything in one thread. It also helps sort what is important to some people. This is quite a known method of bringing contrast and over-scaling my opinion to suit negative responses.
That isn’t at all what you said. You said we were “derailing” the thread arguing about “meaningless differences in opinion”. Maybe if you wouldn’t start off being so offensive you wouldn’t get such responses.
*You fail to comprehend Nail’s post about art, he did back up his claim, yet you demand him to provide proof to his claims.
Wrong again. He didn’t back anything up. He simply gave a couple examples of what low art is. He never explained the criteria upon which he founded that judgment. Maybe it is too hard for you to understand the difference between examples and principles, but that’s not my fault.
*You stating that I’m not an administrator. This is a well known tactic of stating something true yet irrelevant to gain reputation. Most politics use it.
You are reading into this too deeply. I simply dislike your snotty attitude. “This has to stop NOW”? No, it really doesn’t. Why do you think you have any authority? Lol you seem to think your authority stems from your postcount, seeing as you call me and others newbies in the next sentence. If you hadn’t pretended you were an administrator, I wouldn’t have pointed out that you aren’t one. You are full of yourself. Get over it.
*You do not accept differences in opinion. You state that Rembrandt is high-art yet video games low-art. For me, some games provide a deeper emotional value than most paintings
The fact that you personally think that doesn’t change anything. Emotional value is one aspect of art. The fact that you cant appreciate some art doesn’t mean anything. All you have shown is that you prefer the more accessible form of art (video games). There are those of us who can appreciate both for their value, little or great, and as such I believe I am more qualified to speak on the value of them. I am sure you will take issue with the previous sentence, but I don’t care. I think it was J.S. Mill who said something to the effect of: A swine knows only the pleasure of rolling in the mud, but man is able to know both that pleasure, and the pleasure of virtue.
Essentially, since you are only able to appreciate the one, whereas I can appreciate both, my word holds considerably more weight than yours.
