Hacking is out of control (two more - video proof included)

(Tomme) #21

How do people not see “naming and shaming” can be very harmful. Yeah people want to vent but it can very destructive, even if they include so-called “evidence”.

One quick example from recent times. CSGO, particularly “flusha” and Team Fnatic. Over several months people attacked flusha, calling him out on hacking, this even included so-called “proof”, video evidence and testimonies from high ranking players. With all this hate and personal attacks Team Fnatic talked how there motivation was shattered and that it was not fun to play the game anymore.

Luckily people eased off, but think of what would of happened if they did cave and quit playing, CSGO would of lost one of its very top teams and a flusha would have been permanently labeled by a witch-hunt and without any real evidence.

(arcane) #22

[quote=“Tomme;18185”]How do people not see “naming and shaming” can be very harmful. Yeah people want to vent but it can very destructive, even if they include so-called “evidence”.

One quick example from recent times. CSGO, particularly “flusha” and Team Fnatic. Over several months people attacked flusha, calling him out on hacking, this even included so-called “proof”, video evidence and testimonies from high ranking players. With all this hate and personal attacks Team Fnatic talked how their motivation was shattered and that it was not fun to play the game anymore.

Luckily people eased off, but think of what would have happened if they did cave and quit playing, CSGO would of lost one of its very top teams and a flusha would have been permanently labeled by a witch-hunt and without any real evidence.[/quote]

I would like to chime in on this, as I worked for Gfinity.net as CSGO admin at the time of the incident you are talking about, and you left out basically 90% of the story so please do not do that. The reason Flusha was outed was because the creator of the cheat that pro’s like emilio, KqlY, Sf and others got caught with released a press statement, saying that other plays including Kioshima and Flusha where using his cheat, I won’t name the cheat for obvious reasons. KQLY the guy that played for Titan also released a statement saying that he know other professionals were also using the same cheat he did.

List of other players that were known to be using it at the time: http://www.hltv.org/blog/8946-cheating-issues-what-to-do

See the cheat creators statement here: http://csgo.99damage.de/de/interviews/23269-former-cheat-coder-says-it-all

At the same time Kioshima’s steam account suddenly got hacked and all of his inventory moved to another account, Suspicious much? But then after the vac wave finished he suddenly got his account and all his items back, Even more suspicious right?

After the accusations made by the cheat creator, people went back and looked at footage of Flusha and as an ex CSGO admin for Gfinity and Esportsea, the evidence was pretty damn right conclusive, at some point Flusha did use cheats. Whether it be, in MM or top games that yet remains to be seen.

The only reason Flusha is still active and playing is merely because he was playing for Fnatic at the time, and he had a lot of support from a massive organisation, any other team would have removed him straight away just like Epsilon did with Sf etc.

Anyways just thought I would lay down the full story as the previous poster posted half a story well out of context.

(Tomme) #23

There was tangible evidence that emilio, KqlY, Sf had cheated, there was no evidence which would hold any merit in a court linking to flusha.

After all this came to light CSGO touraments had a serious security increase yet flusha played excatly how he did before - there was no gameplay differences and he continued to dominate. I dislike fnatic as a team but the attack on flusha were pure speculation.

Just look at the blog post - a list of players who the author says hacks but has not evidence is just 100% hear-say. Anything slightly like “I heard from Bob who heard from Alex who heard of John; So-and-so is a cheater!” should be thrown in the trash and laughed at. If you want to accuse people come out with evidence otherwise it is just defamation.

Perfect example of 100% speculation, what you said basically boils down to “We think he cheated some time here but have no evidence and you should just believe us”.

(arcane) #24

[quote=“Tomme;18206”][quote=“arcane;18194”]
I would like to chime in on this, as I worked for Gfinity.net as CSGO admin at the time of the incident you are talking about, and you left out basically 90% of the story so please do not do that. The reason Flusha was outed was because the creator of the cheat that pro’s like emilio, KqlY, Sf and others got caught with released a press statement, saying that other plays including Kioshima and Flusha where using his cheat, I won’t name the cheat for obvious reasons. KQLY the guy that played for Titan also released a statement saying that he know other professionals were also using the same cheat he did.
[/quote]

There was tangible evidence that emilio, KqlY, Sf had cheated, there was no evidence which would hold any merit in a court linking to flusha.

After all this came to light CSGO touraments had a serious security increase yet flusha played excatly how he did before - there was no gameplay differences and he continued to dominate. I dislike fnatic as a team but the attack on flusha were pure speculation.

Perfect example of 100% speculation, what you said basically boils down to “We think he cheated some time here but have no evidence and you should just believe us”.
[/quote]

What would you call Tangible evidence? There was video’s and then ESEA helped valve catch them, but it was a little too late to catch them all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o51BJsLgIWA - That demonstrates an aim lock really well, if you can’t see that then I can’t help you.

Also flusha’s performances DID drop massively… fnatic lost like, 4/5 games after ESL one and went into a complete slump. Also. the year before 2014 flusha was nowhere.

I’ll prove my point, here are the overall stats for all top CSGO players in 2013:

http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=181&statsfilter=2 - Notice flusha in the top10? Nope.

Here is 2014:

http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=181&statsfilter=3 - Flusha smashing it

Here is 2015:

http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=181&statsfilter=4 - Oh dear flusha.

So you are telling me he didn’t suddenly go unreal for like half of 2014, then after the cheat accusations he starts falling off big style. I’m not sure where you are getting your information from, but it’s wrong.

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCK5zuW7bSQ - that pretty much shows him aim locking multiple times. It’s as blatant as can be.

(Tomme) #25

Dear god how can people still use videos like that as evidence? You can get clips like that from any demo, go watch one your own demos and notice how your aim falls on people through walls a lot than you think - particular if you condense it to 5 seconds clips which have no content in play.

[quote=“arcane;18207”]
Also flusha’s performances DID drop massively… fnatic lost like, 4/5 games after ESL one and went into a complete slump. Also. the year before 2014 flusha was nowhere.

I’ll prove my point, here are the overall stats for all top CSGO players in 2013:

http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=181&statsfilter=2 - Notice flusha in the top10? Nope.

Here is 2014:

http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=181&statsfilter=3 - Flusha smashing it

[b]Here is 2015:

http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=181&statsfilter=4 - Oh dear flusha.[/b]

So you are telling me he didn’t suddenly go unreal for like half of 2014, then after the cheat accusations he starts falling off big style. I’m not sure where you are getting your information from, but it’s wrong.[/quote]

Flusha’s rating is 0.02 below Get_Right and there is lots of professional players much lower than him, I don’t see that as anything meaningful.

I will just say it again, is there any evidence flusha actually cheated? No. That how it should be.

If we used your method, get a few dodgy clips from a demo, call them a cheater then wait for them to have some bad games - and suddenly you are proved in your opinion and it is the magically higher powers stopping your cursade for a cheat free game and them getting banned - it is not just common sense stopping that happening.

(arcane) #26

[quote=“Tomme;18208”][quote=“arcane;18207”]
What would you call Tangible evidence? There was video’s and then ESEA helped valve catch them, but it was a little too late to catch them all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o51BJsLgIWA - That demonstrates an aim lock really well, if you can’t see that then I can’t help you.
[/quote]

Dear god how can people still use videos like that as evidence? You can get clips like that from any demo, go watch one your own demos and notice how your aim falls on people through walls a lot than you think - particular if you condense it to 5 seconds clips which have no content in play.

Ok I’m done, the Get_RighT comment just made me laugh out loud.

(arcane) #27

http://hellraisers.pro/en/news/1143-prove-that-ange1-is-a-cheater-and-get-100

I’ll leave this here, they offered MONEY for people to do the same thing with ANGE1 from HellRaisers. Notice how there isn’t like 9843384343 videos, wonder why that is?

(Tomme) #28

[quote=“arcane;18209”]
Ok I’m done, the Get_RighT comment just made me laugh out loud.[/quote]

Fair enough but an admin for Gfinity which allows and encourages witch-hunts is just bad form. Flusha’s rating for the past three months is not to shabby either - better than the vast majority of professional players - but I guess you would probably say he has just started hacking again. http://static-cdn.jtvnw.net/emoticons/v1/1902/1.0

[quote=“arcane;18210”]http://hellraisers.pro/en/news/1143-prove-that-ange1-is-a-cheater-and-get-100

I’ll leave this here, they offered MONEY for people to do the same thing with ANGE1 from HellRaisers. Notice how there isn’t like 9843384343 videos, wonder why that is?[/quote]


It is a parody but slap flusha’s name on it and you would call it further evidence.

(arcane) #29

[quote=“Tomme;18211”][quote=“arcane;18209”]
Ok I’m done, the Get_RighT comment just made me laugh out loud.[/quote]

Fair enough but an admin for Gfinity which allows and encourages witch-hunts is just bad form. Flusha’s rating for the past three months is not to shabby either - better than the vast majority of professional players - but I guess you would probably say he has just started hacking again. http://static-cdn.jtvnw.net/emoticons/v1/1902/1.0

[quote=“arcane;18210”]http://hellraisers.pro/en/news/1143-prove-that-ange1-is-a-cheater-and-get-100

I’ll leave this here, they offered MONEY for people to do the same thing with ANGE1 from HellRaisers. Notice how there isn’t like 9843384343 videos, wonder why that is?[/quote]


It is a parody but slap flusha’s name on it and you would call it further evidence.[/quote]

I don’t work with Gfinity anymore I left my position due to other commitments, and I have always advocated outing cheaters, IF there is enough evidence, with Flusha the stats facts and the fact of numerous videos which as someone who was employed to detect cheaters for a number of companies I would call at least 60% of them conclusive evidence. If you know how cheats work and you have had to test them for companies yourself like I have, you understand what you are seeing when you watch the videos. And I understand an aimlock when I see one, I’ve had to watch thousands of demos of people over a number of years. Once you can call lucky, twice ok maybe it’s just very lucky, three times it’s getting to the point where more investigation is needed, but when there is like over 50 videos if not more start circulating, then I mean how can 1 player have all of these aim lock situations, No other player on the planet has this many, some of the actual cheaters themselves who HAVE been vacced don’t have as many videos as flusha does.

Also them videos are edited to make it look suspicious on purpose lol, it’s a parody. and there is maybe 3/4 clips there? Like I said there is over 50 of flusha. When other professional players start calling you out there is definitely something fishy going on, why would other players risk ruining their reputation to make such claims?

We could argue all day about who is right and wrong, but I just speak from experience of watching countless hours of cheaters. I don’t know what you are basing your reasons on.

(Tomme) #30

[quote=“arcane;18215”]
We could argue all day about who is right and wrong, but I just speak from experience of watching countless hours of cheaters. I don’t know what you are basing your reasons on.[/quote]

We really could ha! Guess we will have to agree to disagree :slight_smile: I was just basing my opinions on requring all the accused due process and from developing community ran anti-cheats.

(arcane) #31

[quote=“Tomme;18218”][quote=“arcane;18215”]
We could argue all day about who is right and wrong, but I just speak from experience of watching countless hours of cheaters. I don’t know what you are basing your reasons on.[/quote]

We really could ha! Guess we will have to agree to disagree :slight_smile: I was just basing my opinions on requring all the accused due process and from developing community ran anti-cheats.
[/quote]

Well, I find it hard to believe you cannot see the clear aimlock in flusha’s videos if you have developed before, you can clearly see what is mouse movement and what is software.

(Tomme) #32

[quote=“arcane;18219”][quote=“Tomme;18218”][quote=“arcane;18215”]
We could argue all day about who is right and wrong, but I just speak from experience of watching countless hours of cheaters. I don’t know what you are basing your reasons on.[/quote]

We really could ha! Guess we will have to agree to disagree :slight_smile: I was just basing my opinions on requring all the accused due process and from developing community ran anti-cheats.
[/quote]

Well, I find it hard to believe you cannot see the clear aimlock in flusha’s videos if you have developed before, you can clearly see what is mouse movement and what is software. [/quote]

Yes and no. First the aimlock is not pixel perfect (the random range if there is one is very high then) and low sensivity mouse movement (move your mouse to much to the left and hit your keyboar ect) causes aimlock like movement pretty often.

I helped developed a software and image analysis anti-cheat (do they have a certain .exe running or memory signature ect), and I am vehemently opposed to relying on statistical analysis anti-cheats i.e. FairFight for anything other than rage-hacking.

(CC_FANG) #33

Okay, sorry folks, but I need to close this. Specific discussion of cheats/hacks is really not encouraged and is specifically mentioned in the Code Of Conduct.

As you can see, there will always be debate when reports are posted on the forums. It’s a decent discussion, we didn’t have a bunch of rage and name-calling and the discussion kind of naturally evolved from something that is a growing issue in our game. So it’s cool, but time to stop.

We have a lot of very experienced gamers in this community, and as you can see many who are able to focus on very specific details and explain their opinions on just why something is a hack or not. I’ll encourage you folks to include your opinions and reasoning in your reports. Help the GM see exactly what you are trying to show them. As the game develops so will methods of identifying cheaters, and the ability of seasoned players to know just when something doesn’t add up.

Thanks for all the input here, I believe overall this topic was beneficial despite certain things needing removed.