Grind?

(L00fah) #121

[QUOTE=zenstar;377049]This all sounds fantastic for a RPG style single player or a Co-op FPS but is not what you want for a competative MP FPS. Overcomplicated character customization and leveling systems bring about a skill imbalance in a game that is meant to be about pitting your skill against your opponents’.
Yes it is possible to have a crazy deep customization but then you’re going to have major problems balancing it as ever added ability has the option for exploitation when used in some unexpected way.
For example: Diablo 3 will have some nice deep customization but they’ve stated that PVP is purely for fun and will not be balanced in any way because a) not the focus of the game and b) way too difficult to balance that sort of customization for pvp without making its effects weak and bland.

If we’re still talking about Brink and grind / reward systems then the best reward system for it would be the “Success” winning screen. If you need more than that then the game probably isn’t good enough to hold your attention, but i guess they can unlock clothing or badges. But that “grinding for reward” system should not be the focus of the game. It needs to be enjoyable to play first and foremost and this means a balanced, skill-based shooter that provides excitement.
Levels do not make me feel excited in a competative FPS.[/QUOTE]

My problem with this is A LOT of people are calling Brink a “competitive” FPS. I have yet to hear SD EVER refer to it that way. If anything, at least to me, the skills offer MORE to that gameplay. I don’t honestly care if it’s competitive if it’s fun as all hell. Borderlands was an enjoyable game, I loved the small PvP 1v1s I had.
If you guys are looking for comp., I truly believe you’re expecting the wrong things from Brink. Yeah, Splash Damage has a specialty in Competitive Multiplayer games, but I don’t think that was their goal with Brink… Which was intended just to be a fun-ass game. As far as I’m concerned, this game was intended for a more casual audience to rope in EVERYONE, not the competitive scene.
That, and I’m a little bothered by the narrow-mindedness involved here. As in, why are you assuming there is only ONE way an “FPS” (which is literally just a visual perspective, not a mechanic in most cases, not taking into account the “shooter” involved which is just a combat delivery) can be competitive? And you’re acting like broken or abused skills can’t just be patched out.
For instance, there are plenty of Versus-Multiplayer Military-FPS that don’t try to be anything for the “competitive” scene… They just focus on fun for everybody, rather than this niche market. Not everyone is looking for competition. Look at the L4D games… Yeah, they have potential for serious and hardcore competition play, but they fall just shy of really achieving that. It’s because that wasn’t what Valve wanted from their games, so the way THEY designed it, it isn’t viable. However, I can use that example inversely - with the private servers and such that offer different game balancing.

Regarding the “reward/grind,” a "YOU WIN: screen is seldom satisfying anymore. Gamers expect more from their games, which is where these rewards came from. Maybe 15 years ago, that was acceptable, but not anymore. It’s about making the player feel better than the standard and I see nothing wrong with it. It simply isn’t your cup of tea. And even in those games, there was more to it than “success.” Games like mario felt rewarding when you could find secret levels or kill bosses quickly or just doing cool ****… Which is fun, but now games tend to recognize these feats more.
Grinding, while often interpreted as a slow process, is addictive when done right… Which involves a lot of streamlining and play testing (something Brink clearly skipped). If they remove this aspect altogether, we’re not playing Brink anymore - it’s an entirely different game. If you don’t like certain KEY ELEMENTS of Brink, you really shouldn’t be playing Brink.
I never understood why so many players want these aspects of Brink to change… Like… You order a Spaghetti with red sauce and meatballs for dinner one night and when you finish it, you tell the waiter, “Oh it was alright. But I really wish you hadn’t used spaghetti or red sauce.” - To which he would more than likely reply, “Next time order something different.”
There was no confusion with what we should expect from Brink in terms of basic elements… We knew right off the bat it’d be a class-based shooter with a RPG-influenced leveling system where we were focused on completing objectives (rather than K/D) to maximize our XP for the team. The confusions came in from how Parkour and the campaign would play…

All in all (TL;DR) - I don’t think Brink was ever intended to be a competitive experience. That isn’t to say that an FPS/RPG isn’t capable of it without sacrificing the depth of the RPG elements (and in my opinion would give us more options for the “competitive” scene). And why are you trying to change Brink into something it was never intended to be from another genre entirely?

(.Chris.) #122

A competitive FPS doesn’t necessary entail clan matches and top level leagues and such, that’s something separate.

(zenstar) #123

[QUOTE=L00fah;377066]My problem with this is A LOT of people are calling Brink a “competitive” FPS. I have yet to hear SD EVER refer to it that way. If anything, at least to me, the skills offer MORE to that gameplay. I don’t honestly care if it’s competitive if it’s fun as all hell. Borderlands was an enjoyable game, I loved the small PvP 1v1s I had.
If you guys are looking for comp., I truly believe you’re expecting the wrong things from Brink. Yeah, Splash Damage has a specialty in Competitive Multiplayer games, but I don’t think that was their goal with Brink… Which was intended just to be a fun-ass game. As far as I’m concerned, this game was intended for a more casual audience to rope in EVERYONE, not the competitive scene.
That, and I’m a little bothered by the narrow-mindedness involved here. As in, why are you assuming there is only ONE way an “FPS” (which is literally just a visual perspective, not a mechanic in most cases, not taking into account the “shooter” involved which is just a combat delivery) can be competitive? And you’re acting like broken or abused skills can’t just be patched out.
For instance, there are plenty of Versus-Multiplayer Military-FPS that don’t try to be anything for the “competitive” scene… They just focus on fun for everybody, rather than this niche market. Not everyone is looking for competition. Look at the L4D games… Yeah, they have potential for serious and hardcore competition play, but they fall just shy of really achieving that. It’s because that wasn’t what Valve wanted from their games, so the way THEY designed it, it isn’t viable. However, I can use that example inversely - with the private servers and such that offer different game balancing.

Regarding the “reward/grind,” a "YOU WIN: screen is seldom satisfying anymore. Gamers expect more from their games, which is where these rewards came from. Maybe 15 years ago, that was acceptable, but not anymore. It’s about making the player feel better than the standard and I see nothing wrong with it. It simply isn’t your cup of tea. And even in those games, there was more to it than “success.” Games like mario felt rewarding when you could find secret levels or kill bosses quickly or just doing cool ****… Which is fun, but now games tend to recognize these feats more.
Grinding, while often interpreted as a slow process, is addictive when done right… Which involves a lot of streamlining and play testing (something Brink clearly skipped). If they remove this aspect altogether, we’re not playing Brink anymore - it’s an entirely different game. If you don’t like certain KEY ELEMENTS of Brink, you really shouldn’t be playing Brink.
I never understood why so many players want these aspects of Brink to change… Like… You order a Spaghetti with red sauce and meatballs for dinner one night and when you finish it, you tell the waiter, “Oh it was alright. But I really wish you hadn’t used spaghetti or red sauce.” - To which he would more than likely reply, “Next time order something different.”
There was no confusion with what we should expect from Brink in terms of basic elements… We knew right off the bat it’d be a class-based shooter with a RPG-influenced leveling system where we were focused on completing objectives (rather than K/D) to maximize our XP for the team. The confusions came in from how Parkour and the campaign would play…

All in all (TL;DR) - I don’t think Brink was ever intended to be a competitive experience. That isn’t to say that an FPS/RPG isn’t capable of it without sacrificing the depth of the RPG elements (and in my opinion would give us more options for the “competitive” scene). And why are you trying to change Brink into something it was never intended to be from another genre entirely?[/QUOTE]
When I refer to a competative FPS I am not refering to the competition scene. I’m refering to multiplayer versus portion of this game which is basically the entirety of the game. The single player is multiplayer versus with bots and the co-op is multiplayer versus against bots. The bots are there to emulate the missing players. While some people prefer playing it against the bots, the multiplayer versus is really the heart of Brink with everything geared towards that.
Borderlands PVP may be fun but it is not the focus of the game. Borderlands is not a competitive FPS. It is an FPS + RPG.
And no, there are many ways an FPS can be competative. Racing in something like Mirror’s Edge for example. But you cannot argue that Brink does not fall into the “Quake / Enemy Territories” style of competition. And since this is a forum about Brink and we’re talking about Brink and how we’d make Brink better I think most people were assuming that we were talking about Brink. Trying to diffuse the argument by saying FPSs can be competative in different ways is simply a red herring when we’re talking about Brink (in case it’s not obvious this discussion will probably be about Brink. Sorry if that’s narrow minded but if you want to talk about other games we can create a thread in the off-topic forum).
As for the “patching out of broken skills” you’ll notice that I didn’t say that they couldn’t be balanced. I said that every extra skill makes it more difficult to balance. For this type of game, where one plays an from a first person perspective, primarily in competion with other people and tends to shoot at them (a competitive MP FPS we refer to as Brink) I’d rather SD spends it’s time on creating a polished and fun game than spending years tweaking skills. Just look at how long it takes to tweak the weapons. Adding crazy deep character customization would take longer. In utopia there are games that work the way you want them to. But your ideal are quixotic and the reality dictates that deep customization causes deep balance issues in PVP.
For your entire argument about “grind/reward” I refer you to my most recent posts in this thread where I basically say “Whatever. As long as the badges are cosmetic then they’re not an issue. I don’t care for them but I don’t have an issue with them”. If you’re arguing that there should be something more than just a cosmetic reward to the grind/reward system then I refer you back to any argument about how competitive multiplayer first person shooters wherin the players compete against each other by shooting at one another (primarily) should be based on skill with everyone playing from the same starting point and having no advantage for hours spent other than the advantage of honing their own personal skills.

All in all (TL;DR) - I don’t think Brink was ever intended to be a competitive experience.

Except for the bit where the entire game is geared towards 2 teams of human players competing against one another, primarily by shooting at each other via a first person viewpoint.

And why are you trying to change Brink into something it was never intended to be from another genre entirely?

What entire other genre? I call it a competitive FPS. The RPG elements are quite shallow at the moment and the main focus is on it being a competitive FPS. And this is a discussion. Generally in discussions people like to make suggestions or talk about things they do or don’t like. If you read the original post it is inviting discussion about the grind in Brink and what do people think of it. Tangental discussion around this issue also includes definition of grinding, how other games deal with it and what system we’d prefer in the game.

Just to make sure: I’m generally talking about Brink here. I consider brink to be an FPS in which you compete with another team of people. That competition takes place mainly via shooting at people who are trying to do objective or who are trying to stop you doing objectives. I like to call games where you shoot at things from a first person point of view an FPS. I like to call things where you compete against other people competitive. I consider Brink a competitive FPS.

Feel free to ask if I have been unclear on any of my points.

(H0RSE) #124

[QUOTE=zenstar;377075]Except for the bit where the entire game is geared towards 2 teams of human players competing against one another, primarily by shooting at each other via a first person viewpoint.

Just to make sure: I’m generally talking about Brink here. I consider brink to be an FPS in which you compete with another team of people. That competition takes place mainly via shooting at people who are trying to do objective or who are trying to stop you doing objectives. I like to call games where you shoot at things from a first person point of view an FPS. I like to call things where you compete against other people competitive. I consider Brink a competitive FPS.[/QUOTE]

You guys are on 2 different mindsets. You refer to a “competitive” game teams merely compete against each other (which could be anything from Brink to Madden) When L00fah refers to “competitive” he is talking about the actual competitive community or stigma attached to the term. Neither of you are wrong and neither of you are right.

(.Chris.) #125

Except L00fah is wrong as his whole argument against zenstar was based on the wrong interpretation.

(L00fah) #126

You missed my points here and, clearly, I misunderstood what you meant by “competitive FPS”. I thought you were referring to a hardcore game, not simply versus matches.

I was bringing up other games as examples… Not trying to discuss them. I’m not sure why some of you people are so eager to toss that off as “discussion of another game” and oh so eager to basically tell me my examples are off-topic…
And no, I can’t argue it doesn’t fall into the Quake/etc. style of competition… Because it isn’t those games - this is Brink.
“And since this is a forum about Brink and we’re talking about Brink and how we’d make Brink better I think most people were assuming that we were talking about Brink.” - from your mouth, not mine.
You missed my entire point because you focused on me using other games, briefly, as examples. (and while on the topic- the focus of Borderlands was not my concern. I was touching briefly on an aspect of the game that proves my point…)
So rather than fill it with flavor text, I’ll summarize it:
The game can be perfectly balanced to fit a competitive/versus/PvP niche without removing key elements of its design. AS IN, it can be ADAPTED, not CHANGED, to fit this mold.
You’re trying to remove parts of the game that make it what it is… Not bits and pieces that don’t help evolve it. I’m sorry, but if you took out the level progression, weapon/outfit/ability unlockables and class “definitions,” you’re left with an entirely different game - and I do not support that.
I, like many others, enjoy Brink because it is not the typical experience and tries to do something different.

Except for the bit where the entire game is geared towards 2 teams of human players competing against one another, primarily by shooting at each other via a first person viewpoint.

You already clarified we had a misunderstanding there… You don’t need to continue this portion of the discussion.

What entire other genre? I call it a competitive FPS. The RPG elements are quite shallow at the moment and the main focus is on it being a competitive FPS. And this is a discussion. Generally in discussions people like to make suggestions or talk about things they do or don’t like. If you read the original post it is inviting discussion about the grind in Brink and what do people think of it. Tangental discussion around this issue also includes definition of grinding, how other games deal with it and what system we’d prefer in the game.

Another one, as in, not the FPS/RPG this game clearly is. Yes - the RPG elements are shallow, but you’re trying to remove them out-right which is an integral part of the experience.
And you’re right, this is a discussion and I am doing just that. But your dismissiveness as if I have no valid points isn’t contributing to the topic. Your passive-aggressive attacks are getting old at this point. I THOUGHT this was a decent conversation until that line, honestly. MY original response was entirely relevant, but through DISCUSSION, we’ve been led to this point. That’s how a conversation typically works.
I can patronize you too if you really want me to, but that isn’t going to continue conversation - now is it?

Just to make sure: I’m generally talking about Brink here. I consider brink to be an FPS in which you compete with another team of people. That competition takes place mainly via shooting at people who are trying to do objective or who are trying to stop you doing objectives. I like to call games where you shoot at things from a first person point of view an FPS. I like to call things where you compete against other people competitive. I consider Brink a competitive FPS.

Feel free to ask if I have been unclear on any of my points.

And again… You’ve clarified twice up to this point already we had a misunderstanding. I thought you meant something, and in no way doubted my thought - so why I would stop and ask if that isn’t what you meant…? It’s been situated at this point, but you’re hung up on that single aspect of my argument.
Can we continue our discussion or are you going to continue in this fashion of condescension?? Because, in my eyes, that’s all it’s turning into at this point.
…

EDIT: I want it to be noted that I am in no way being aggressive. I am a wordy person who takes pride in his vocabulary, so please don’t misinterpret. I am trying my hardest right now to keep my temper in check, but it really gets on my nerves when I feel like I’m being talked down to, as if my opinions are null and void due to a simple misunderstanding.

(zenstar) #127

[QUOTE=L00fah;377082]You missed my points here and, clearly, I misunderstood what you meant by “competitive FPS”. I thought you were referring to a hardcore game, not simply versus matches.
[/QUOTE]
Fair enough.

And no, I can’t argue it doesn’t fall into the Quake/etc. style of competition… Because it isn’t those games - this is Brink.
“And since this is a forum about Brink and we’re talking about Brink and how we’d make Brink better I think most people were assuming that we were talking about Brink.” - from your mouth, not mine.

And Brink does fall into the same style of competition as those previous games. Linking Brink to the style of competition found in Quake3 etc is still talking about Brink. Drawing parallels to deepen the discussion about Brink is still talking about Brink.

You missed my entire point because you focused on me using other games, briefly, as examples. (and while on the topic- the focus of Borderlands was not my concern. I was touching briefly on an aspect of the game that proves my point…)

Actually it was the bits about being narrow-minded about how we use the term FPS and how FPSs can be competative in different ways that makes me think you’re going off topic and diffusing the discussion, unless you’re trying to say that Brink should, in fact, completely switch it’s gameplay for a different kind of gameplay. I’d happily pick up a good single player FPS set on the Ark but Brink is competative in a certain way and that is the way we are discussing here.

The game can be perfectly balanced to fit a competitive/versus/PvP niche without removing key elements of its design. AS IN, it can be ADAPTED, not CHANGED, to fit this mold.
You’re trying to remove parts of the game that make it what it is… Not bits and pieces that don’t help evolve it. I’m sorry, but if you took out the level progression, weapon/outfit/ability unlockables and class “definitions,” you’re left with an entirely different game - and I do not support that.
I, like many others, enjoy Brink because it is not the typical experience and tries to do something different.

No. I am happy with the limited customization we have. So far it seems pretty balanced because there are very few skills. You misunderstood what I was saying. Deep customization would be hellish to balance. The small smattering of RPG in here does not take the focus away from the FPS elements. I’m not trying to take that away. The leveling process (as I previously stated much earlier in the thread) I could do without. I don’t mind it for the first playthrough but having to do every time for every character is a bit silly. There are enough levels to basically be an introduction. I do not want to be forced to play the tutorial every time I want to make a new character. At least you only lose 1 level to completely redo a character’s abilities so, I guess, you can skip the whole thing for a small cost and I’m OK with that (although I’d prefer to have multiple characters).

Another one, as in, not the FPS/RPG this game clearly is. Yes - the RPG elements are shallow, but you’re trying to remove them out-right which is an integral part of the experience.

Nope. I don’t want it to get deeper but I never said the customization should be completely removed. It’d be interesting if it worked like ET:QW and I wouldn’t be adverse to that but I don’t mind the customization. I don’t consider the customization to be part of the leveling process either since the game is meant to be played at the relatively low level cap (which mitigates a fair bit of the grind). Although I see nothing wrong with being allowed to skip the leveling alltogether. The game is not about the leveling. If it were there’d be a lot more levels.

And you’re right, this is a discussion and I am doing just that. But your dismissiveness as if I have no valid points isn’t contributing to the topic. Your passive-aggressive attacks are getting old at this point. I THOUGHT this was a decent conversation until that line, honestly. MY original response was entirely relevant, but through DISCUSSION, we’ve been led to this point. That’s how a conversation typically works.
I can patronize you too if you really want me to, but that isn’t going to continue conversation - now is it?

Interesting. I use passive agressive attacks in a single post and they’re getting old? And you counter by using passive agressive attacks?
But you’re right. it was silly and we should refrain.

And again… You’ve clarified twice up to this point already we had a misunderstanding. I thought you meant something, and in no way doubted my thought - so why I would stop and ask if that isn’t what you meant…? It’s been situated at this point, but you’re hung up on that single aspect of my argument.
Can we continue our discussion or are you going to continue in this fashion of condescension?? Because, in my eyes, that’s all it’s turning into at this point.
…

I was pushing that because you’ve misinterpereted multiple people at this point when they’ve clearly been stating things about Brink and your response has been to apply their comments generically to other games and then claim they’re wrong when they do not fit (straw man argument), prompting DarkAngel to respond to you in this thread saying “A thread about an fps game, on an fps devs forum in said games section and a discussion regarding the game directly… and you needed it pointed out? I, and others, thought that was obvious, but no problem I won’t assume that the obvious is so obvious in future.”

EDIT: I want it to be noted that I am in no way being aggressive. I am a wordy person who takes pride in his vocabulary, so please don’t misinterpret. I am trying my hardest right now to keep my temper in check, but it really gets on my nerves when I feel like I’m being talked down to, as if my opinions are null and void due to a simple misunderstanding.

Fair enough. Your opinions are completely valid even if I do not agree with them (I didn’t claim otherwise), but look back at your previous posts where you’re calling people narrow minded and (especially your EDIT in the response to DarkAngel) where it looks like you’re talking down to people. Saying things like “Guess what? Reward system” repeatedly to try and prove a point (which I think misses the point he was trying to make, but whatever) which makes your post look aggressive. In fact in that post you claim you are being aggressive but now you’re complaining when you’re getting similar treatment.
Things like this do not help you though:

If you learned anything about “proofs” in school, you kind of said the same thing but more defined. That sounds more condescending than I meant… But I’m too lazy to fix it now."

But I agree. we should not be aggressive or condescending and this discussion can continue.

(wolfnemesis75) #128

More Grind please. :slight_smile:

(L00fah) #129

And Brink does fall into the same style of competition as those previous games. Linking Brink to the style of competition found in Quake3 etc is still talking about Brink. Drawing parallels to deepen the discussion about Brink is still talking about Brink.

And I was drawing parallels from different games, why was what I did any different? That was my point. I was using parts of other games that explained my point and it was used against me as though I was simply talking about another game. That’s all I was getting at.

Actually it was the bits about being narrow-minded about how we use the term FPS and how FPSs can be competative in different ways that makes me think you’re going off topic and diffusing the discussion, unless you’re trying to say that Brink should, in fact, completely switch it’s gameplay for a different kind of gameplay. I’d happily pick up a good single player FPS set on the Ark but Brink is competative in a certain way and that is the way we are discussing here.

narrow-minded was used more or less as a neutral term, as simply a title - not an insult. I just want to clarify that right now. It seems that caused more offense than intended, and it was merely an implication not so much a fact. As in, I feel it is narrow-minded to restrain games/developers/etc. to a certain mold without acknowledging the multiple ways they can be applied/created/played. That’s all. I apologize for the offense.
I often don’t mean offense and I use words as words, without really acknowledging negative or positive stigmas - so it can make for some rough situations.

No. I am happy with the limited customization we have. So far it seems pretty balanced because there are very few skills. You misunderstood what I was saying. Deep customization would be hellish to balance. The small smattering of RPG in here does not take the focus away from the FPS elements. I’m not trying to take that away. The leveling process (as I previously stated much earlier in the thread) I could do without. I don’t mind it for the first playthrough but having to do every time for every character is a bit silly. There are enough levels to basically be an introduction. I do not want to be forced to play the tutorial every time I want to make a new character. At least you only lose 1 level to completely redo a character’s abilities so, I guess, you can skip the whole thing for a small cost and I’m OK with that (although I’d prefer to have multiple characters).

It would be “hellish,” yes. There’s no denying that. But you acknowledge it’s possible. I for one LOVE deep customization that functions well. A game that exemplifies that well is Guild Wars (by far my favorite PvP RPG of all time, give it a shot if you haven’t). It includes and immense amount of customization in your overall skill builds but they frequently balance skills to eliminate those common trending skills. It requires a lot of maintenance, I cannot in good conscience deny that - but, in my opinion, it’s absolutely worth it and makes for some intensely interesting gameplay. It’s something I’ve always wanted to see in the FPS/RPG genre. I LOVE FPS, it doesn’t get much more satisfying than knowing you have the skills to blast another player to hell and back… But I often yearn for more variety.
Maybe I should hope on a competitive (to steal the term that caused so much confusion… Tongue-in-cheek) Multiplayer Mass Effect of some kind… But still, the thought that Brink could easily meet that potential is what excites me.

Nope. I don’t want it to get deeper but I never said the customization should be completely removed. It’d be interesting if it worked like ET:QW and I wouldn’t be adverse to that but I don’t mind the customization. I don’t consider the customization to be part of the leveling process either since the game is meant to be played at the relatively low level cap (which mitigates a fair bit of the grind). Although I see nothing wrong with being allowed to skip the leveling alltogether. The game is not about the leveling. If it were there’d be a lot more levels.

Well then that’s my bad. I assumed from your wording that you wanted it gone, out right. Which just sounded crazy.
My only problem with that defense is where you note “if it worked like ET/QW.” I mean… It’s supposed to be defining itself. But then again, I’ve used countless examples like that… So I guess it really isn’t fair to judge. I just hope you get my point on that because I am not sure how to verbalize it.

Interesting. I use passive agressive attacks in a single post and they’re getting old? And you counter by using passive agressive attacks?
But you’re right. it was silly and we should refrain.

Thank you. You’re probably one of the most mature people I’ve had the pleasure of speaking with on these forums. I used a passive-aggressive response to prove my point is all.

I was pushing that because you’ve misinterpereted multiple people at this point when they’ve clearly been stating things about Brink and your response has been to apply their comments generically to other games and then claim they’re wrong when they do not fit (straw man argument)-…

My intent wasn’t to “apply their comments generically” but rather show them how generalizations can be damaging. As well, I had no intent on telling them they were “wrong.” When it comes to an opinion, you cannot be wrong. (Unless it’s something like… I don’t know… The Nazis were right. That, I think, can be called wrong.) Just to point out flaws in the logic or clarify points I didn’t understand. My arguments are not to imply you’re wrong, but incite an understanding, compromise or merely another way of thinking. I’m not always successful and I let my temper get the better of me sometimes. Thankfully, due to a recent situation, my temper has been more in my control.

Fair enough. Your opinions are completely valid even if I do not agree with them (I didn’t claim otherwise), but look back at your previous posts where you’re calling people narrow minded and (especially your EDIT in the response to DarkAngel) where it looks like you’re talking down to people. Saying things like “Guess what? Reward system” repeatedly to try and prove a point (which I think misses the point he was trying to make, but whatever) which makes your post look aggressive. In fact in that post you claim you are being aggressive but now you’re complaining when you’re getting similar treatment.
Things like this do not help you though:
“Hi, I’m L00fah… And I sound like a douchebag here” (This was Edited by L00fah, not zenstar. I’m just summarizing… And I think it’s funny.)
But I agree. we should not be aggressive or condescending and this discussion can continue.

In my defense, I stated in the same sentence that I didn’t mean it to sound that bad. It was merely in my wording. At the time I wasn’t feeling very well and wasn’t motivated to backspace and find better wording. I didn’t mean it to sound, “if you morons actually LEARNED something-” it more along the lines of, “I don’t know what your school curriculum taught, but if you did you’ll get what I mean.” I suppose I should have slipped in an apology for the wording there if I didn’t want to fix it. But I was hoping the “But I’m too lazy to fix it now” would be taken as that and a light-hearted joke.

Hopefully we understand each other a bit more now, and hopefully now people on these forums won’t take me as aggressive and seriously. Most of what I say, wording included, is based largely around a… Uuuuh… Dark humor…? Cynical humor…? Snide humor…? I’m not sure how to word that, and pure lack of politically correct wording (another thing I’m not sure how to word). It’s been implied I’m more of an android imitating humans than anything…
And up until recent, as stated, my temper was often the fuel for much heated debate.
I apologized already for my attitude in another thread.

I should just make my signature, “I sound like a dick, I know. But I’m not trying to be, most of the time.” or something. That way it’s always there. Haha! I haven’t gotten around to editing my profile at all, though. Too much arguing. :wink:
/summereading

(zenstar) #130

[QUOTE=L00fah;377117]I should just make my signature, “I sound like a dick, I know. But I’m not trying to be, most of the time.” or something. That way it’s always there. Haha! I haven’t gotten around to editing my profile at all, though. Too much arguing. :wink:
/summereading[/QUOTE]
You should hear me argue in real life when I’m annoyed by something :tongue:

(L00fah) #131

I imagine we’d be a lot alike in person. Haha

(Zekariah) #132

Alright, enough of the L00f and zen show. Back on topic.

God…where were we?

(zenstar) #133

[QUOTE=Zekariah;377205]Alright, enough of the L00f and zen show. Back on topic.

God…where were we?[/QUOTE]

Roughly: Badge system.

(Zekariah) #134

Heh, I was just messin zen.:smiley:

I reckon the perspective on badges/ranks has been covered concisely. It’s pretty clear that people can’t have a problem with something that ultimately does not affect what is important to them, and badges/ranks do not impact the gameplay adversley.

Achievements can (to a degree) when cheevo hunters muck about in a public game not helping their team, only grinding away at one action to gain their cheevo. Take the Mongoose Mowdown in Halo 3. I was an offender on this one where I wasted approx 10 matches trying to get this. I still haven’t got it to this day. Not ONE opportunity has arisen for me to gain it and I won’t waste anymore of my teammates’ time.

But I don’t feel at a loss for not getting it. And one day, if i come across an opportunity to unlock and I do, I’ll be doin the mini-celebration and crack a beer in its honour!

That’s why I enjoy the grind. Whether it be for cheevos, badges or some useless yet cool unlock, it’s fun when you get it. But a warning to the hunters out there: Don’t ruin it for everyone else. If you are cheevo hunting you can always get a friend to help.

(zenstar) #135

I personally like steam achievements. I don’t generally hunt them down (unless it’s something easy like “shoot someone after jumping”) and if they’re well crafted they will be awarded during normal gameplay and not distracting players by making them do weird things.

But as you say, they’re generally a thing on the side. If a game is good the achievements will come on their own. If the game is bad I don’t care what the achievements are. I’m not the type of person who plays for gamerscore. I only play something that amuses me and for only as long as it continues to amuse me.
If there’s going to be any grind then it had better be amusing grind. There are so many games out there that we could be playing, if a game gets boring then there’s plenty of competition to try out.

(DarkangelUK) #136

I like the achievements that promote skill, or introduce players to a part of the game they didn’t know existed, or would never normally explore. For exmaple the hidden skulls achievement in Halo 3 meant players had to explore the maps rather than just rush through from beginning to end, meaning they discovered more of the game and some hidden areas, skill wize again the example of the Mad Skillz achievements in Quake Live, it showed the players that their weapons could be used in more dynamic ways than just stand still, point and shoot. Something similar in Brink would be welcome, something like CCity Speed Demon: Escort the last objective to the helicopter in under 20 seconds, or Heavy Speed Demon where the only way the heavy could that that achievement is by surfing with a light team mate. The random “play 5 games” and “reach rank 5” is almost showing a lack of imagination really…

(Humate) #137

Oh, Im the complete opposite. : c

Takes away a bit of the excitement of discovering it for myself.
I remember the first time i stroybombed an anansi, i nearly fell out of my chair from laughter.
But the trick wedgwood showed at quakecon with the 3rd eye camera and the husky… i never actually tried, because it lost the ‘cool’ factor.

Sounds retarded, but im sure you know what i mean.

(.Chris.) #138

[QUOTE=Humate;377229]Oh, Im the complete opposite. : c

Takes away a bit of the excitement of discovering it for myself.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, stuff like like planting mines on vehicles and driving into a crowd of enemies, planting HE charges on trees near objective routes and such, basically trying out different ways of using existing weapons and when it pays off I don’t need the game to give me a blowjob or anything, the fact it worked is reward enough for me.

(DarkangelUK) #139

Well i never said spoil everything, but introduce players to the stuff that devs want them to know about or explore but may not think about due to “must get to the end quickly” ADD gamers thinking. Am I the only one annoyed that the big area at the back end Volcano never gets used apart from a few people that know about it? Seems like a waste of a good close fighting area.

(Humate) #140

And because you’ve thought outside the box, it becomes an ace up your sleeve.

Yes i knew what you meant :slight_smile: