Grenade Shooting

(suho) #81

I have been using grenade shooting since Day 2 I think. Always thought it was one of the more powerful abilities. It is way more powerful than the nade launcher. Why? Well, simply because you can also use it against opponents that have the higher position over yourself, for that the nade launcher is useless. For those situations I really love my grenade shooting I think it is cool and I would not wanna miss it when I am playing medic or engineer.

But as a soldier it is really easy to kill an entire spawn wave (on pubs) if you knock em down with the molotov and then grenade shoot em. Usually you get 3+ easy kills with that, as for the rest you just finish em of with your SMG.
Been doing that with another guy yesterday on Container City where we just turned the game around, instead of letting us (Securtiy) spawn camped, we spawn camped em the entire time, until they left and called us spawn raping bastards.

Might I add as well that supplies are no problem because you can easily scavange some corpses before next the spawn wave arrives.

I think the ET:QW system of having only 1-3 nades was better because there was no way of recharging them, except the crate. Yes, nades were more powerful in QW and could insta-kill more guys at once but in Brink with the fast enough recharging I can spawn-camp most players on pub servers easily.

(Zarel) #82

Hmmm. Maybe they should take out the knockback effect of the grenade entirely(since the molotovs and the primary weapon-grenade launchers does that). Toning down the damage for a bit and increasing it’s splash range to compensate. This way, it still retained as a proper intimidation weapon.

(Apoc) #83

I would agree with that, i would also remove the regen of grenades (apart from soldier ones) giving a set number to different classes/bodytypes. And would reduce the hitbox to shoot grenades.

(Kurushi) #84

The knockback effect is part of the game. I wouldn’t want to see this removed, but I’m all for other tweaks, within reason

(Thundermuffin) #85

The knockback effect is one of the worst parts of grenade shooting, though; you get knocked down with no real way to fight back because the weapons aren’t accurate in the slightest and you’re disoriented from all that blurring, lol.

To me I wish grenades were completely redone and they added back in ET:QW grenade timing with the little indicator that went around the screen and the limited amount of grenades. That was just so much better than BRINK, but since I know that won’t happen I hope they make it so it’s less of a “have to” ability. Like everyone said, right now if you don’t do it you’re screwed because they knock you down, disorient you, and your pretty much dead by then, anyways.

(Kurushi) #86

[QUOTE=Thundermuffin;351811]The knockback effect is one of the worst parts of grenade shooting, though; you get knocked down with no real way to fight back because the weapons aren’t accurate in the slightest and you’re disoriented from all that blurring, lol.

To me I wish grenades were completely redone and they added back in ET:QW grenade timing with the little indicator that went around the screen and the limited amount of grenades. That was just so much better than BRINK, but since I know that won’t happen I hope they make it so it’s less of a “have to” ability. Like everyone said, right now if you don’t do it you’re screwed because they knock you down, disorient you, and your pretty much dead by then, anyways.[/QUOTE]

I think people are too focussed on 1v1 situations… yeah, you have a high chance of getting killed against someone that nades you on your own but you should have backup. If you’re a single target, you’re going to get gibbed. If you’re with team mates, you’re going to get knocked down but probably saved, at least not get gibbed and more than likely revived if the distraction is there

(Thundermuffin) #87

We aren’t too focused on 1v1s; a lot of situations arise where you’ll be in a 1v1 or in a 2v1. I know when I had to push top red on aquarium it was always a 1v1 situation and sometimes pushing in on Shipyard you’ll be doing 1v1s. Those two maps are pretty much what every team scrimmed before I quit and went to play TF2.

A game shouldn’t revolve around who has the most teammates present; in ET:QW even if it was a 2v1 or 3v1, you’d still be able to win as long as you were the best player. That should be how the game should be played, not how many teammates you have to protect you from an overpowered ability. I can’t think of another game where having more teammates eliminates the need for actual skill. One player can ace teams in CS, TF2, and I’m sure there’s videos somewhere of people acing teams in competitive Quake, yet if it’s a 2v1 in BRINK the odds are always stacked against, unless you happen upon them with their backs turned and you get those magical headshots.

(its al bout security) #88

its mostly underused and under appreciated. its the lights form of the underslung grenade launcher.

though if you chuck a nade at an enemies head them shotgun blast them it can be a definite kill

(Kurushi) #89

[QUOTE=Thundermuffin;351827]
A game shouldn’t revolve around who has the most teammates present; in ET:QW even if it was a 2v1 or 3v1, you’d still be able to win as long as you were the best player. That should be how the game should be played, not how many teammates you have to protect you from an overpowered ability. I can’t think of another game where having more teammates eliminates the need for actual skill. One player can ace teams in CS, TF2, and I’m sure there’s videos somewhere of people acing teams in competitive Quake, yet if it’s a 2v1 in BRINK the odds are always stacked against, unless you happen upon them with their backs turned and you get those magical headshots.[/QUOTE]

Use grenade shooting if you’re outnumbered ;), slide into them… whatever, I don’t believe you can’t take out people when you’re outnumbered in Brink, it’s just not true and too much generalisation going on

(Thundermuffin) #90

Well considering it’s a coin flip on who gets their grenade off first, using grenade shooting shouldn’t be what fights are decided upon.

Let me clarify. I can take out more than 1 person in a 2v1/3+v1 situation in BRINK when it’s on a pub. When it’s a team who doesn’t suck you won’t be taking out more than 1 person unless you get extremely lucky with grenade shooting and then the other person completely misses their grenade somehow (which is extremely unlikely with the way the nades hitboxes seem to be huge). It doesn’t matter how good the person is, unless it’s a fight against people with 20 health or they completely suck, they won’t win.

You do realize sliding into someone is pretty much a death wish in comp, right? The random spread from you sliding will eliminate any chance you have of killing them.

(dabis) #91

I don’t know if the ability deserves to be toned down at all or not really, but I did play an online match the other day where the main solider on the other team had more grenade kills than bullet kills. Every nade he threw came with a volley of bullets that would A) blow up the nade in my team’s face, every single time without fail (he was easily able to shoot the nades on CCity near the gate from the top of the stairs at the offensive spawn), and B) the few bullets that hit defenders before the nade explosion would assure that every grenade that this soldier threw would kill at least one person upon exploding.

In the end though, my team still won, so it’s not like being able to shoot nades is a game-changer, and it probably won’t completely turn the tide of any match, but it is still annoying how easy it is to shoot a tiny little grande, even from great distances.

(Kurushi) #92

[QUOTE=Thundermuffin;351966]Well considering it’s a coin flip on who gets their grenade off first, using grenade shooting shouldn’t be what fights are decided upon.

Let me clarify. I can take out more than 1 person in a 2v1/3+v1 situation in BRINK when it’s on a pub. When it’s a team who doesn’t suck you won’t be taking out more than 1 person unless you get extremely lucky with grenade shooting and then the other person completely misses their grenade somehow (which is extremely unlikely with the way the nades hitboxes seem to be huge). It doesn’t matter how good the person is, unless it’s a fight against people with 20 health or they completely suck, they won’t win.

You do realize sliding into someone is pretty much a death wish in comp, right? The random spread from you sliding will eliminate any chance you have of killing them.[/QUOTE]

Sliding into people is an escape measure not always a killing technique - Lets you effectively escape more than one person when you’re out numbered then use the map to your advantage.

I think in any game at comp level you will struggle to take on people when you’re out numbered. Yes, skilled players can take down entire teams but it’s still very very unlikely. At high level of play you are useless without your team.

Avoidance is key of course, you can’t take on 5v1 at quake without escaping and using the environment to your advantage, the same goes for Brink and Brink offers good ways of avoiding people.

We’re moving away from Grenade shooting here but I wanted to point out it is possible to be out numbered and come out on top using movement and the map to your advantage, like any other game.

Change the hitboxes maybe but dont take away core mechanics

(Thundermuffin) #93

Trying to slide away from people doesn’t work well; I get killed around corners more when sliding than I ever did just walking/sprinting behind them. Blame whatever you want for it (lag compensation, bad hitboxes, etc.), but you’ll rarely see people slide in or out unless they’re going to cover or accidentally do it.

The thing is you can’t really use the environment in BRINK like you could in Q3. You can’t lose people in the corridors, because you’ll never gain enough speed to get around corners faster than them. There’s also no teleporters a la Lost World to try to force people to use. Plus footsteps aren’t nearly as loud (at least not to me, they’re plently loud in CS:S, TF2, and QL so it isn’t my headphones going bad lol) so you can’t really try to use sound of footsteps to your advantage like one would in Quake.

The game should be compared to W:ET/ET:QW where it was extremely possible to fight 2 or 3 people at once as long as you were able to keep your crosshair steady and strafe correctly. That isn’t really possible in BRINK’s comp and grenade shooting only amplifies that problem, in my opinion.

I don’t really want the ability gone, but it’s just got too many rewards for too little risk. Sure, TeoH pointed out you might go around a corner and there’s a guy there ready to shoot, but he probably has his grenade out as well trying to use grenade shooting on you because it’s such a needed thing. Plus that’s really the only downside that the ability has: you have to hold the grenade and you can’t shoot. Doesn’t really seem like enough of a downside when you can kill every bodytpe so quickly, you know?

(BiigDaddyDellta) #94

Love using the lobster and maximus together with grenade shooting, kick total ass especially as a high level soildier.

(Kurushi) #95

[QUOTE=Thundermuffin;352006]Trying to slide away from people doesn’t work well; I get killed around corners more when sliding than I ever did just walking/sprinting behind them. Blame whatever you want for it (lag compensation, bad hitboxes, etc.), but you’ll rarely see people slide in or out unless they’re going to cover or accidentally do it.

The thing is you can’t really use the environment in BRINK like you could in Q3. You can’t lose people in the corridors, because you’ll never gain enough speed to get around corners faster than them. There’s also no teleporters a la Lost World to try to force people to use. Plus footsteps aren’t nearly as loud (at least not to me, they’re plently loud in CS:S, TF2, and QL so it isn’t my headphones going bad lol) so you can’t really try to use sound of footsteps to your advantage like one would in Quake.

The game should be compared to W:ET/ET:QW where it was extremely possible to fight 2 or 3 people at once as long as you were able to keep your crosshair steady and strafe correctly. That isn’t really possible in BRINK’s comp and grenade shooting only amplifies that problem, in my opinion.

I don’t really want the ability gone, but it’s just got too many rewards for too little risk. Sure, TeoH pointed out you might go around a corner and there’s a guy there ready to shoot, but he probably has his grenade out as well trying to use grenade shooting on you because it’s such a needed thing. Plus that’s really the only downside that the ability has: you have to hold the grenade and you can’t shoot. Doesn’t really seem like enough of a downside when you can kill every bodytpe so quickly, you know?[/QUOTE]

I think Quake was a bad example,which is still a bit a duelers game at heart (don’t take that too literally - I think we can agree it’s quite a bit easier to look after yourself) but compared to other comp team games, the reliance on team mates is not much different in Brink.

When we look at the options, what have we got? Grenade damage isn’t really the problem, hit boxes maybe, cool down, I’m not against if it stayed the same but respawning didn’t reset the timer

(Tandem) #96

Too much damage for a low skill move.

Public play would benefit from 99% of the changes made in comp; any game, any platform.

(Thundermuffin) #97

Ah I wasn’t really thinking of 1v1 duels, but more TDM or CTF. Lost World was the only map with teleporters I thought of off the top of my head that I knew the name of haha. I was never really a fan of dueling just for the simple fact no matter how well I time items or try to control areas I always screw up a rocket jump or something and watch as my lead crumbles away. :frowning:

I think it’s really a combination of the horrible hitboxes (which makes the spread of the game look even worse, lol) and that the grenades recharge really quickly. I wish I had solid numbers for the lifespan of players in ET:QW and the recharge timer of grenades in BRINK, but sadly I don’t so I’m gonna kind fudge some just for the sake of my reasoning.

I want to say I lived about 1 min to 1 & 1/2 mins on average pushing on offense and longer (up to 5mins-ish?) depending on what I was doing on defense. In ET:QW this was no problem because I had 1 grenade and had to deal with that on both offense and defense. It gave the offense a little advantage because they kept getting their nades restocked so they could use them to penetrate. On defense you used them more for clearing a room after it was taken over or on the first push to try to slow people down. You had to /kill out and run back to restock which could be risky (rarely was, though, but still it gave a little hope for breaking through I guess, lol)

In BRINK the grenades recharge at like 30ish seconds (would love to know the real time, so hopefully someone has sat and counted lol). That means you get a grenade pretty much every respawn wave, so in a span of 5mins on defense I would have about 6 grenades to use and I’d never have to /kill out to get more which lets me stay put and keep whatever vantage point I have. While, yeah, the offense will get those same 6 grenades on their respawn, the defense has the advantage of being set up at the choke points, mines placed strategically, etc., that really makes their 6 grenades pack way more of a punch than those of the offense.

Like both sides can really use grenade shooting and exploit it, but it just seems like with everything else going on, the offense is rarely the one really getting to use the ability unless it’s a steamroll.

(BMXer) #98

[QUOTE=Thundermuffin;352059]…
In BRINK the grenades recharge at like 30ish seconds (would love to know the real time, so hopefully someone has sat and counted lol). That means you get a grenade pretty much every respawn wave, so in a span of 5mins on defense I would have about 6 grenades to use and I’d never have to /kill out to get more which lets me stay put and keep whatever vantage point I have. While, yeah, the offense will get those same 6 grenades on their respawn, the defense has the advantage of being set up at the choke points, mines placed strategically, etc., that really makes their 6 grenades pack way more of a punch than those of the offense.

…[/QUOTE]

10 seconds for nades to recharge. So yes, a minimum of one nade to shoot every spawn wave.

(Kurushi) #99

I’m still not convinced on the whole thing. Until I’ve seen it being abused I’m reserving judgement.

(Apoc) #100

you on pc?