body types and character clothing customisation, do they make the game play better?
imagine in rtcw/et/(haven’t played etqw) a panzer carrying player not being able to put the panzer away, effectively making him equal to heavy body type in Brink, how annoying would that be? watching as the other players disappear into distance while having to crawl forwards to the tune of crickets. other than for the sake of believability/realism/role playing, i don’t see the the point of making the people carrying heavy weapons move slowly when traveling (=not fighting).
the effect of character customisation seems to be that it makes the teams look pretty much the same. the differences in appearance between the teams aren’t big enough to recognize without taking some time to actually look at the player model, being able to instantly know the team only using peripheral vision is surprisingly important. the customisation does make the players individuals. in the classics you can sometimes recognize people from the way they move, but this only happens during firefights. here everyone can see who is who and shoot at the best player on the enemy team first, which really sucks if you happen to be the best player. once again, other than believability/realism/role playing, i don’t really see the point of character clothing customisation.
gimmicks may be a strong word, but i think these may be things people eventually grow tired of. and a server option to disable character clothing customisation and make everyone wear clothing that makes the silhouettes of the teams very distinctive is a must.
Character clothing is great for social gaming as it helps you recognize your friends on the battlefield.
imagine in rtcw/et/(haven’t played etqw) a panzer carrying player not being able to put the panzer away, effectively making him equal to heavy body type in Brink, how annoying would that be? watching as the other players disappear into distance while having to crawl forwards to the tune of crickets. other than for the sake of believability/realism/role playing, i don’t see the the point of making the people carrying heavy weapons move slowly when traveling (=not fighting).
That is a decision i gladly make. I’m usually the heavy in TF2 as well. It’s exactly this huge disparity between players that makes the battlefield a lot more complex and therefore fun to play in.
The gun customization will make a difference in gameplay, the clothing? Not so much.
I think it will be noticeable among your friends or some teammates after awhile but it’s not going to be so noticeable that you’ll be able to point at everyone in game from across the map just based off of a particular pair of pants they’re wearing.
I could care less about customization but I know in a small 4v4 game if one guy is doing good and he has white face paint, I think he’s going to be easily recognizable.
You also have to take into account that you’re watching a gameplay video on your computer, I haven’t watched in full screen but I’d guess it’ll be much easier to notice the character customization once you’re playing on your tv.
Don’t forget that was just a demo, probably a pre-alpha one at that. So expect A LOT more customization before the game is released.
Character clothing is great for social gaming as it helps you recognize your friends on the battlefield.
i’ve never had difficulties telling who is who on my team. the thing that i love most about the teamplay in rtcw/et is team cohesion, how sometimes you and the people you are playing with are so in sync it almost feels like telepathy. whether you are friends or not. besides, since the max team size is so small in Brink, eventually, when playing in across the board skilled company, even in pubs, people will notice it’s way more fun to treat the team as a family. to move along someone based on class instead of sticking to your friend like glue. so, in the end, all character clothing customisation will do is tell you who the team should focus fire on, and who the heavy weapons should be aimed at in a group of enemies, which as i said will totally suck if it happens to be you.
That is a decision i gladly make. I’m usually the heavy in TF2 as well. It’s exactly this huge disparity between players that makes the battlefield a lot more complex and therefore fun to play in.
maybe i’m not seeing something, during a firefight, the only effect a slower travel(=non-shooting) speed for a heavy can do is make him not be there yet. and speaking overall, all it does is slow down the progress of the attacking team across the map, as in the attacking group needs to choose whether to attack a chokepoint without the heavy or hang around waiting, and waiting is no fun except when playing in highly coordinated company, as in wait a moment to attack a chokepoint from two directions at the exact same moment, or waiting alone holding your breath while the enemy team passes few meters in front of you hoping no one turns to check out that small corner you are hiding in. many people hanging around waiting for the heavy to haul their ass there is just a waste of time. but like i said, maybe i’m missing something, i haven’t really played any tf2 other than during the free weekends, can you elaborate?
See it’s this part that gives me the idea you’re actually frustrated and/or angry with something else, which doesn’t have to have anything to do with the game, but you just need something to kick against.
You’re using two arguments here.
A - Customizable characters are useless because you never have trouble determining who is who in older shooters.
B - Customizable characters detract from the game because it makes people recognize each other.
These are two grossly contradicting points. Either customisable characters have an effect on the game or they don’t, and when they do, the negative point according to you would be that good players would be able to go around incognito as nobody could pick them out from the mass of lesser players in time.
Why the hell would it be important for good players to stay anonymous? If anything the strong reputation you build up with your recognisable character should be a welcome negative feedback to your success keeping the games even.
Which brings me to the main point. Assessing a complex situation and taking the right actions accordingly is the main skill that counts in tactical shooters like this. It takes twitch reflexes, tactical insight, spatial vision, problem analysis, psychology and experience to be able to do that.
What customisable characters actually do in this game is throwing more information at the player. It’s up to the player chose which information to use and how to use it. Quickly recognising other players, your team-mates as well as enemies means you need to quickly evaluate your priorities in a fight. You might know from previous encounters that the guy with the red bandana is a coward but an excellent aimer, yet the bare chested dude with sunglasses is really reckless but has a couple of life-preserving perks build in his character, based on this information you’re suddenly able to make more informed decision than when you would face two Strogg clones.
A game that hands more information to the player raises the skill ceiling. Beginners or thick players might never found out how to use the information, or maybe only to a rudimentary extend while more dedicated players can work to train their tactical insight.
Besides, the whole argument counts for different body-types as well but in a different way. You might not know who’s playing the character, but the three rough archetypes still give you an idea what to expect from them. It complicates the battlefield, which is a good thing.
So no, bodytypes and customisable characters are much, much more than just a gimmick, they add a new layer of depth that is new to tactical shooters.
Yes, the lumbering character of the heavy makes it more difficult for him to be on the right place at the right time. If you think that’s a too big a disadvantage to accept, then you’re free to pick a different class. I can in my turn say that a light bodytype has difficulty STAYING in the right place for the right time, something which a big guy has less of a problem with.
The fact that the different bodytypes will arrive at different times means that they have different roles to fulfill. The light guys are versatile and can do emergency actions, the right kill or heal or hack at the right time can make a huge difference. The big guys however will be the backbone of the team, they’re where the rest can organize themselves around once they’re in place.
Light guys are for people who rather improvise and change their plan as they go. I don’t do that, I rarely walk towards a fight without knowing what I will at least try to do. I tend to have a plan formed the moment I spawn and then try to execute it rather stubbornly. That’s what appeals to me, the huge weight they can have in a situation, but it only works if you planned and anticipated the fight.
Meh; I guess you oversimplify it. Of course ET / RTCW wouldn’t work with bodytypes beause the games aren’t made for it. Is it so hard to understand?
Having different bodytypes with different agilities allows to have routes on the map which aren’t accessible by all bodytypes. This means you could have a flanking route that is a bit longer but can only accessed by the light bodytype. Heavy guy goes the direct and shortest path to the objective and light guy can flank. Both would be at the objective at the same time but from different directions. The direct path could be easily defendable so an approach with a light body on that path would be suicidal unless he teams up with other players.
I don’t have much of an imagination but even I can think of ways on how it can work. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=tokamak;230058]
A - Customizable characters are useless because you never have trouble determining who is who in older shooters.
B - Customizable characters detract from the game because it makes people recognize each other.
These are two grossly contradicting points. Either customisable characters have an effect on the game or they don’t, and when they do, the negative point according to you would be that good players would be able to go around incognito as nobody could pick them out from the mass of lesser players in time. [/quote]
recognizing who is who on your team has no negative effects on gameplay, in older games it is done with floating names that appear when holding your mouse over the model. the only effect from recognizing who is who in the enemy team, is being able to make sure the aoe gun lands close to the most dangerous player. let’s say you are the best player on your team, would you like it if every time the group you are moving with encounters a grenade launcher or a rocket launcher, it is you they shoot at, no exceptions (except when the two other people in your group notice this happening over and over and stay close to each other and away from you, in which case it’s them that get the boot, leaving you alone).
so my argument is, recognizing who is who on your team is ok, easily recognizing who is who amongst the enemy, probably not a good thing in the long run.
Why the hell would it be important for good players to stay anonymous? If anything the strong reputation you build up with your recognisable character should be a welcome negative feedback to your success keeping the games even.
Which brings me to the main point. Assessing a complex situation and taking the right actions accordingly is the main skill that counts in tactical shooters like this. It takes twitch reflexes, tactical insight, spatial vision, problem analysis, psychology and experience to be able to do that.
What customisable characters actually do in this game is throwing more information at the player. It’s up to the player chose which information to use and how to use it. Quickly recognising other players, your team-mates as well as enemies means you need to quickly evaluate your priorities in a fight. You might know from previous encounters that the guy with the red bandana is a coward but an excellent aimer, yet the bare chested dude with sunglasses is really reckless but has a couple of life-preserving perks build in his character, based on this information you’re suddenly able to make more informed decision than when you would face two Strogg clones.
A game that hands more information to the player raises the skill ceiling. Beginners or thick players might never found out how to use the information, or maybe only to a rudimentary extend while more dedicated players can work to train their tactical insight.
that is a good point, but this isn’t a rpg where you carry a deep bag of tricks you can choose from on the fly. you’ll have a couple of guns and some type of nades which all do the same amount of damage no matter who is in the receving end. besides, in my experience, in a game where the average kill takes few secinds, making decisions based on what the enemy is actually doing is a lot more effective than basing them on their psychological profile. in a duel game like quake where it may take many minutes to make a kill, noticing some behavioral patterns will give you an edge, but it wont tell you whether they strafe left or right and at what moment.
using the example you provided, you shoot at the one who is situated more conveniently considering the position you are in, remain behind cover relative the other one while fighting with the other one if possible.
unless you have a weapon that can kill with one hit and you know one of the enemies is considerably better at the game than the other, then you of course shoot it at the better one, which is a trivial choice to make with the customised looks compared to them being two identical Strogg.
but the main thing wrong with the customisation of looks is the lack of distinct silhouettes and color schemes for the teams, forcing SD to use nametags hovering on top of team mate heads to make recognizing friend and foe fast enough.
Besides, the whole argument counts for different body-types as well but in a different way. You might not know who’s playing the character, but the three rough archetypes still give you an idea what to expect from them. It complicates the battlefield, which is a good thing.
So no, bodytypes and customisable characters are much, much more than just a gimmick, they add a new layer of depth that is new to tactical shooters.
well, i’d argue that more complicated isn’t always better, for example rtcw mp plays better than et, but et is more complicated. and i don’t argue three distinct bodytypes aren’t different in a battlezone compared to just one. i’m asking what specific effects the slower travel time to the battlezone has, other than slowing the game down needlessly.
[QUOTE=darthmob;230059]Meh; I guess you oversimplify it. Of course ET / RTCW wouldn’t work with bodytypes beause the games aren’t made for it. Is it so hard to understand?
Having different bodytypes with different agilities allows to have routes on the map which aren’t accessible by all bodytypes. This means you could have a flanking route that is a bit longer but can only accessed by the light bodytype. Heavy guy goes the direct and shortest path to the objective and light guy can flank. Both would be at the objective at the same time but from different directions. The direct path could be easily defendable so an approach with a light body on that path would be suicidal unless he teams up with other players.
I don’t have much of an imagination but even I can think of ways on how it can work. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
thanks, didn’t think of that. it will be incredibly hard to implement in a map while having multiple choices for each type of route (making it not completely predictable and shallow) while allowing the team members to know where each of them are roughly (as in be visible to eachother sometimes) without actually moving together in the same space. but i suppose it’s possible. how well it works in practice remains to be seen of course.
my concern has more to do with traveling as a group, let’s say everyone on your team is dead but you know the route to a chokepoint relatively far from the spawnpoint is clear, but the chokepoint is so well defended that your team has no chance of making even a tiniest dent without a heavy weapon first making a small opening for the push. in situations like these the only thing preventing the muscular guy from being able to run does is delay the push. theoretically, each person taking their own route to the chokepoint and ending up at different attack positions at the same time sounds cool, but i doubt it would be any fun in practice after years of playing the same map.
[QUOTE=Qhullu;230071] let’s say you are the best player on your team, would you like it if every time the group you are moving with encounters a grenade launcher or a rocket launcher, it is you they shoot at, no exceptions (except when the two other people in your group notice this happening over and over and stay close to each other and away from you, in which case it’s them that get the boot, leaving you alone).
[/QUOTE]
I actually like that. With each player having an individual look, it would be easier to know which guy you should be avoiding or recognizing the one you may want to revenge kill.
You’re doing the same thing again. “Recognising my own team is good as it is and won’t add anything, recognising the enemy players will be too easy”. You can’t have your cake and eat it. Either the customisable models have an effect or they don’t.
And you’re seriously downplaying the importance of recognising players. Recognising an afro or orange jeans is much more instinctive than mousing over a name plate. You try following a discussion on a board without avatars, like Bethesda’s Brink forum. It will take more effort because you’re not recognizing the pictures in the corner of your eye while reading through the threads, it’s all grey names.
It’s also not just a matter of deciding where you point your gun at, maybe that was the case in old shooters, but these days there are numerous ways in which you can respond to a player, friend or foe.
And YES, I would love to see players starting to pick out the star players on a team. Being a great player will no longer be without consequences, it levels the field. If I met a team that would picking me out in the case of me being the biggest threat to me, it will only mean that I’m fighting a group of players that have ascended the basics and play the game on a whole new level.
that is a good point, but this isn’t a rpg where you carry a deep bag of tricks you can choose from on the fly. you’ll have a couple of guns and some type of nades which all do the same amount of damage no matter who is in the receving end.
You’ve got to be kidding me.
besides, in my experience, in a game where the average kill takes few secinds, making decisions based on what the enemy is actually doing is a lot more effective than basing them on their psychological profile. in a duel game like quake where it may take many minutes to make a kill, noticing some behavioral patterns will give you an edge, but it wont tell you whether they strafe left or right and at what moment.
Paying attention to the player’s behaviour has given me an edge in any tactical shooter. Even in R6 where you’re dead before you can blink.
using the example you provided, you shoot at the one who is situated more conveniently considering the position you are in, remain behind cover relative the other one while fighting with the other one if possible.
unless you have a weapon that can kill with one hit and you know one of the enemies is considerably better at the game than the other, then you of course shoot it at the better one, which is a trivial choice to make with the customised looks compared to them being two identical Strogg.
My example is heavily heavily simplified, what if the crappy player was hacking the objective? The better player known for his bigger stamina and armour? What if the crappy player was incredibly buffed or a medic supporting the better player? The game is highly complex and every situation needs to be looked at in a case by case situations in a matter of milliseconds. Tactical insight will play a huge role here.
but the main thing wrong with the customisation of looks is the lack of distinct silhouettes and color schemes for the teams, forcing SD to use nametags hovering on top of team mate heads to make recognizing friend and foe fast enough.
I heavily disagree with them adding red name tags over players indeed. I hope I can find a server where it’s turned off. As for the silhouettes and colours, they seem good enough for me and it will something you get better at over time.
well, i’d argue that more complicated isn’t always better, for example rtcw mp plays better than et, but et is more complicated. and i don’t argue three distinct bodytypes aren’t different in a battlezone compared to just one. i’m asking what specific effects the slower travel time to the battlezone has, other than slowing the game down needlessly.
I already answered what specific effects the slower travel time to the battlezone has.
Yes on top of the tactical improvement it also makes the game more personal and emotional, which in turn gives a psychological layer.
You try following a discussion on a board without avatars, like Bethesda’s Brink forum.
Bethesda’s forums have avatars, you just need to sign in to see them. As for the whole character customization thing with recognizing players; it doesn’t “detract” from the gameplay. If there is a player owning my team, I’m going to be able to spot him regardless. If everyone in the game looked exactly the same, there’s a good chance you would be able to point him out, just based on his playstyle.
[QUOTE=Qhullu;230076]my concern has more to do with traveling as a group, let’s say everyone on your team is dead but you know the route to a chokepoint relatively far from the spawnpoint is clear, but the chokepoint is so well defended that your team has no chance of making even a tiniest dent without a heavy weapon first making a small opening for the push. in situations like these the only thing preventing the muscular guy from being able to run does is delay the push. theoretically, each person taking their own route to the chokepoint and ending up at different attack positions at the same time sounds cool, but i doubt it would be any fun in practice after years of playing the same map.[/QUOTE] We didn’t really see the big bodytype yet so we’ll see how slow he is. It seems to work in TF2 though. The medic is pretty fast compared to the bigger guys and it is possible to move as a team without being frustrating. It was similar in ET / ETQW. Someone moving skillfully was always faster than someone who didn’t use strafe- / rampjumps at the right time.
Either the customisable models have an effect or they don’t.
they do, the effect is: you will instantly and easily know who is who on the enemy team.
My example is heavily heavily simplified, what if the crappy player was hacking the objective? The better player known for his bigger stamina and armour? What if the crappy player was incredibly buffed or a medic supporting the better player? The game is highly complex and every situation needs to be looked at in a case by case situations in a matter of milliseconds. Tactical insight will play a huge role here.
i have nothing against class structure, puffs and such being instantly recognizable glancing at the player model, the only thing i’m guestioning here is whether or not making it apparent who is behind the curtain so to speak, is a good thing
i guess our experiences and tastes just differ, you seem to enjoy slower, considered and methodological approach to playing whatever game it is you’re currently playing. i enjoy playing dangerously, getting myself into situations that seem impossible to get out of, and this is why it’s absolutely imperative that i can tell whether the movement i see with my peripheral vision during a fight with someone else is a friend or foe.
in my experience, from a one-on-one fight perspective, you wont gain any advantage through knowing the behavioral patterns of your opponent if they are good enough to provide an interesting fight. behavioral patterns have more to do with preferred travel routes and such. the only thing i can see happening if i know who it is i’m going to fight beforehand, is i may be slightly more prepared mentally for the fight than average, paying more attention than usual. the outcome is determined by who dodges bullets better and reacts to what the opponent does faster. in the games i like, calmness and instinct are your number one tools in fight, thought is too slow for the pace i find fun.
one of the most annoying things (in addition to being mostly long-range fighting) in et to me is when it feels like the rifle nader/panzer always picks me out of a group of people, which of course isn’t a conscious decision on their part, but if i had distinctive clothes it could be if i were good enough.
it is an intriguing idea, knowing who everyone on the battlefield is, i’m just not sure it’s worth losing the instant and even subconscious ability to tell the team of a playermodel from a shortest glimpse.
and sorry, i didn’t read the edit about travel times. i guess the difference here is that i think of the gameplay dynamics as waves hitting a breaker, as in everyone on you team pushes together, if it seems it’ll fail, everyone catches the next respawn wave. tf2 and it seems brink are going for something less structured i gather.
i have nothing against class structure, puffs and such being instantly recognizable glancing at the player model, the only thing i’m guestioning here is whether or not making it apparent who is behind the curtain so to speak, is a good thing
Why not? Class structure and all are just static properties, the behavior of a human player however, is far harder to get a good idea off. Don’t you think recognizing behavioral patterns should be part of the game?
I guess our experiences and tastes just differ, you seem to enjoy slower, considered and methodological approach to playing whatever game it is you’re currently playing. i enjoy playing dangerously, getting myself into situations that seem impossible to get out of, and
My personal preference, a slow supportive player isn’t that relevant here. I also really like that there is so much variation within the roles.
When it comes down to taste, I just really want a complicated (complicated is different than chaotic) setting in which decisions and tactics count for a lot. This is achieved by combining different player archetypes, this game needs fast, reckless improvising players as much as slow, calculated, planning players and a whole spectrum in between.
this is why it’s absolutely imperative that i can tell whether the movement i see with my peripheral vision during a fight with someone else is a friend or foe.
I really hope SD can achieve that without the red arrow crutch. However, why isn’t it also imperative for you to recognise who you’re up against in a reflex?
in my experience, from a one-on-one fight perspective, you wont gain any advantage through knowing the behavioral patterns of your opponent if they are good enough to provide an interesting fight. behavioral patterns have more to do with preferred travel routes and such. the only thing i can see happening if i know who it is i’m going to fight beforehand, is i may be slightly more prepared mentally for the fight than average, paying more attention than usual. the outcome is determined by who dodges bullets better and reacts to what the opponent does faster. in the games i like, calmness and instinct are your number one tools in fight, thought is too slow for the pace i find fun.
Agreed, but we’re talking about group fights here, not duels.
one of the most annoying things (in addition to being mostly long-range fighting) in et to me is when it feels like the rifle nader/panzer always picks me out of a group of people, which of course isn’t a conscious decision on their part, but if i had distinctive clothes it could be if i were good enough.
Getting to be recognised on the battlefield then means you’re climbing a difficulty curve. Isn’t that great? The better you get, the harder the game becomes!
On top of that, you can even use your distinctive reputation by playing the people. You can serve as a distraction or simply be incredibly unpredictable by giving your play style a 180 turn. Suddenly the sniping camper becomes a shotgun beserker. Would be amazing.
it is an intriguing idea, knowing who everyone on the battlefield is, i’m just not sure it’s worth losing the instant and even subconscious ability to tell the team of a playermodel from a shortest glimpse.
I think getting to recognise the enemy is the biggest advantage here. Recognising team-players is mainly fun for friends. Then again, if you slowly learn that ‘pink afro’ stands for ‘dedicated medic’ and ‘car tiers’ stands for ‘untrustable solo player’ then that would be a layer as well.
And sorry, i didn’t read the edit about travel times. i guess the difference here is that i think of the gameplay dynamics as waves hitting a breaker, as in everyone on you team pushes together, if it seems it’ll fail, everyone catches the next respawn wave. tf2 and it seems brink are going for something less structured i gather.
TF2 and Brink are going for a wider division of roles. It’s like comparing chess to checkers, checkers is all about the cohesion of the entire group, while with chess it’s about the synergy of the certain roles together. It also has fast, fragile and slow powerful units.
well, that’s all i’ve been saying all along, maybe my usage of english language didn’t make it clear and bringing the own team stuff into things muddied the waters further
Why not? Class structure and all are just static properties, the behavior of a human player however, is far harder to get a good idea off. Don’t you think recognizing behavioral patterns should be part of the game?
behavioral patterns are part of every game, but at a level of play where taking advantage of them would make a difference, they only affect things outside firefights, which routes someone prefers, whether they prefer hanging back, rushing forward or something in the middle (plus tons of less obvious things). the people who have behavioral patterns during firefights aren’t very present, so you’ll likely kill them easily anyway.
hence my problem with it, when everyone is good, being able to recognize who is who makes no difference, you’ll probably fight as soon as you see eachother anyway and knowning who specifically you are fighting with from the start doesn’t really affect the dynamics of the fight. and when some people on the server are good and some are bad, all it does is make the choice of who shall receive the bomb at their feet trivial.
i don’t think that in a 1-on-3 situation for example the various skill levels of the 3 is something that can inform how you should fight through it, the outcome has more to do with how well you know the level geometry and the various movement and shooting options (hitscan or projectile able to shoot behind stuff) your opponents have, of course again the situation is different if only one of the 3 is good enough to give you any trouble (but you are playing in wrong company if that’s the case).
the only situation where knowing your opponents might make a difference is when there are two or more people completely unaware of your presence and you have time to choose where you are going to shoot the first shot from before they move enough to make that choice a poor one. but how often does that happen in high enough level of play where people are even aware of people having behavioral patterns let alone what they are specifically?
You can serve as a distraction
oh i’m a very good panzermagnet!
…
when it comes to body types i’m not really convinced it is a good thing, my thoughts on it should be clear and i believe i understand yours so talking about it further would be just reiterating the same things in different ways. i didn’t really like the dynamics of tf2, granted i haven’t really played it enough to know, but to me it seemed more laid back fun kind of game than i like my online shooters to be.
the first few years of rtcw mp were like that, spending hours sitting on top of the legendary mp_depot warehouse with friends (lt+medic) as panzer on a 32 player server shooting rockets to the exit of allied forward spawn gettin 10 man kills and laughing our asses off, stuff like that. but there’s no going back and nowadays i can only enjoy an online fps if absolutely everything in it works brilliantly no matter how hard you push it, and at no point can it feel like the game is limiting what i can do if you know what i mean (i can’t shoot or move any better because of the game, not because of my lack of ability) <- oh, and with all this i don’t mean to portray what you enjoy, it was just an unrelated trip down the memory lane and some musing probably unrelated.
You seem to be analyzing it too much. You are looking way to deep into it, and pulling out scenarios that really mean nothing. Customization is about creating a unique persona that the player can be happy about. They already said when you see a player wearing certain things, based on what is involved to get them, you might think to yourself, “that guy might be pretty good,” but overall, it’s just so you can play the character you want to play from abilities to weapons, to the way they look.
They way I see it is simply Customization adds fun, variety, and replayability.
[QUOTE=Qhullu;230120]behavioral patterns are part of every game, but at a level of play where taking advantage of them would make a difference, they only affect things outside firefights, which routes someone prefers, whether they prefer hanging back, rushing forward or something in the middle (plus tons of less obvious things). the people who have behavioral patterns during firefights aren’t very present, so you’ll likely kill them easily anyway.
hence my problem with it, when everyone is good, being able to recognize who is who makes no difference, you’ll probably fight as soon as you see eachother anyway and knowning who specifically you are fighting with from the start doesn’t really affect the dynamics of the fight. and when some people on the server are good and some are bad, all it does is make the choice of who shall receive the bomb at their feet trivial.
i don’t think that in a 1-on-3 situation for example the various skill levels of the 3 is something that can inform how you should fight through it, the outcome has more to do with how well you know the level geometry and the various movement and shooting options (hitscan or projectile able to shoot behind stuff) your opponents have, of course again the situation is different if only one of the 3 is good enough to give you any trouble (but you are playing in wrong company if that’s the case).
the only situation where knowing your opponents might make a difference is when there are two or more people completely unaware of your presence and you have time to choose where you are going to shoot the first shot from before they move enough to make that choice a poor one. but how often does that happen in high enough level of play where people are even aware of people having behavioral patterns let alone what they are specifically?
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This is just down to a lack of imagination. Players of equal skill can still demonstrate vastly different specialisms, tactics and behaviors. Especially in a game like Brink.
Players aren’t required to pay attention to someone’s behavior, but I think the players who are capable of it, or at least try to do so, should be enabled and encouraged to do it. It allows them to play mind-games on top of general tactics and cognitive challenges, and that’s what sets the ET series apart from many other shooters.
Multiplayer shooters shouldn’t just be a challenge of hand-eye coordination, they also need to be a be a battle of wits and a social experience.
[QUOTE=tokamak;230169]This is just down to a lack of imagination. Players of equal skill can still demonstrate vastly different specialisms, tactics and behaviors. Especially in a game like Brink.
Players aren’t required to pay attention to someone’s behavior, but I think the players who are capable of it, or at least try to do so, should be enabled and encouraged to do it. It allows them to play mind-games on top of general tactics and cognitive challenges, and that’s what sets the ET series apart from many other shooters.
Multiplayer shooters shouldn’t just be a challenge of hand-eye coordination, they also need to be a be a battle of wits and a social experience.[/QUOTE]
well yea, i can’t imagine scenarios where it makes a difference whether or not i know who the person is that i see for a fraction of a second before we start shooting. but that’s just because i haven’t seen any during the 9 years of teamplay in rtcw/et. it may be i haven’t seen every possible scenario, but i have seen a lot of different ones.
of course it is possible that Brink is somehow different, but unlikely in my opinion because i also think all first person shooters play the same at their core. some just have better movement and shooting mechanics than others. and movement and shooting mechanics are what defines how the game plays, the rest is just meaningles window dressing in comparison.
it does make the fights more personal, i usually have a pretty good idea who it might be i’m fighting with based on how fast i’m losing health and their ability to repel my crosshair but i don’t know for sure. it does remove the mystery though.
soo, pretty much the textbook definition of a gimmick?
to me the million different clothing combinations are a useless feature (well i will probably choose the ugliest possible combination in the beginning but that’ll likely be the last time i touch it) that at worst can be used to make yourself less visible, think all black clothes in a dark map. but i’m not most people people and it could be it keeps some people entertained for few months and may even generate some sales since it hasn’t been done in a commercially released fps game before. ( warsow has a primitive version of it, but luckily the developers were smart enough to include a way to force the model/skin/color of the enemy. ) so it is possible all the man hours spent on that stuff are worth it financially, i’m not saying gimmicks are necessarily a bad thing.
Edit: watching the Dreamhack LIVE Quakelive stream i realize now i was wrong, Brink is by no means the first commercially released FPS game that allows you to choose a look that makes you recognizable to everyone on the server, in fact tons of games allow it.
like in Quakelive you can choose the playermodel you want to use, and that would indentify you to everyone on the opposing team if everyone on the opposing team didn’t force enemy models/skins/colors for visibility. when it comes to gameplay, a more complex character looks customisation like in Brink makes no difference functionally. as it is, choosing a playermodel in Quakelive is done only to get the sound effects you like.
