Game is Defense sided ! make it boring

(BomBaKlaK) #21

[QUOTE=.Chris.;370245]I hope everyone realises that for stopwatch to be viable the maps need to be attack biased and not defense biased?

Think about it.[/QUOTE]

I really think SD forget this point !! all advantage for defense it’s really not fun !!
make the game more attack biased if you want to balance something, and all is going fine if the new gun play is good. respawn time ! obj time like quicker plant or slower diffuse, or both, and de-hack time have to be increase again imo. that’s the kind of objective people are stucking on ! (ccity primary door/ security tower primary door / major part of primary hack obj (terminal - reactor - refuel) and make secondary obj more accessible for attacker not for defenders !

I really dont understand why secondary obj are so defense biased !!! please SD tell me
they are here to help you team and open a new route but most part of them are useless cause to hard due to the bad location ! (Primary obj and seconday can be both cover from multiple point)

(and crosshair / Hud custom for sure ! dont forget it !)

(SinDonor) #22

[QUOTE=BomBaKlaK;370424]I really think SD forget this point !! all advantage for defense it’s really not fun !!
make the game more attack biased if you want to balance something, and all is going fine if the new gun play is good.

(and crosshair / Hud custom for sure ! dont forget it !)[/QUOTE]

Maps that have a defensive advantage ARE fun if you’re on a good attacking team. If you can beat the D at a map they have an advantage on, it’s a double bonus.

I love crushing the Res on CC or Sec on SecTower. Feels good to know you were able to beat the odds.

I don’t understand why every map has to be 50-50. If there are maps that are completely broken and go to a certain team over 99% of the time, that needs to be fixed. But even if your chances of winning a map are only 25%, when it does happen, it feels great.

(wolfnemesis75) #23

We must protect this house!

Defense can be really fun in this game. Labs is the perfect example of that!
:slight_smile:


(.Chris.) #24

[QUOTE=SinDonor;370429]Maps that have a defensive advantage ARE fun if you’re on a good attacking team. If you can beat the D at a map they have an advantage on, it’s a double bonus.

I love crushing the Res on CC or Sec on SecTower. Feels good to know you were able to beat the odds.

I don’t understand why every map has to be 50-50. If there are maps that are completely broken and go to a certain team over 99% of the time, that needs to be fixed. But even if your chances of winning a map are only 25%, when it does happen, it feels great.[/QUOTE]

We are talking about stopwatch here though, a defensive map isn’t suitable for an ideal stopwatch match for reasons already pointed out.

What you say is valid for public servers though, maps do tend to be slightly defensive biased and that is fine as long as all maps aren’t like that, need a bit of variance after all. However some of Brink’s maps are way too biased towards the defense, it’s not fun for either team when the attack cant even complete one objective. In public servers you are not always going to get two even matched sides that know what they are doing. Yeah it’s great when it does happen and you stand a chance of winning but most of the time that’s not the case.

(BomBaKlaK) #25

[QUOTE=SinDonor;370429]Maps that have a defensive advantage ARE fun if you’re on a good attacking team. If you can beat the D at a map they have an advantage on, it’s a double bonus.

I love crushing the Res on CC or Sec on SecTower. Feels good to know you were able to beat the odds.
.[/QUOTE]

cause you play in pub and people in front maybe dont understand all !
if you play with some teams who know the map in match, defense win 90% !

so yes it’s fun a moment to attack a hard map ! but even battery a map in WOLF ET hard to attack is really cool cause the secondary obj is not at the same place ! you can get the backside way. In BRINK both obj (secondary and primary) are at the same place !! really easy to defend …
on ccity there is not even a backside way (they did it and remove it …fail), you stuck in the front of the door and attacker dont have any chance to open that dam door !!
So if me and my clan stuck in defence for example on pub we stuck on the first obj … 99% of the time, so we try to let them blow the door or change side when we can (lot of rage quit on attackers !! :p) to make the game more funny.

(SinDonor) #26

[QUOTE=.Chris.;370432]We are talking about stopwatch here though, a defensive map isn’t suitable for an ideal stopwatch match for reasons already pointed out.

What you say is valid for public servers though, maps do tend to be slightly defensive biased and that is fine as long as all maps aren’t like that, need a bit of variance after all. However some of Brink’s maps are way too biased towards the defense, it’s not fun for either team when the attack cant even complete one objective. In public servers you are not always going to get two even matched sides that know what they are doing. Yeah it’s great when it does happen and you stand a chance of winning but most of the time that’s not the case.[/QUOTE]

I still believe playing 15 mins of Defense in Stopwatch mode is fun unless the game regresses into a spawn camp, then it will get frustrating for the Attacking team and boring for the D team.

On both CC and SecTower, two of the “best” maps for defense, a good attacking team should have a skinny Assault planting the explosive before the D can get there. The rest of the attacking team should be setup in prep for that first D wave. If the D is able to break through and stop/remove the plant, then it might get ugly. But with 8 members of the attacking team focused on protecting the charge, it shouldn’t happen. When I am on a good Attacking team, we ALWAYS get past that first Obj on those maps.

(BomBaKlaK) #27

you need to !! you had to !! make a lot of conditions !!
why do you think they remove this 2 maps for the comp ? cause there are horribly defense sided at the first obj only ! so it makes double full hold all the time … even aquarium one of the most balanced map the first obj is really hard (plant time to long and diffuse to quick !) even without the abilite to “quick diffuse” remove in comp.

SO ? what next ? another defense sided idea SD ?

  • Plant time to long !
  • defuse time to quick
  • dehack time to quick

for me just balancing that 3 timers in some attack biased way make the game more funny for everybody even for comp side

(sachewan) #28

Please check out my idea thread about making maps offensively biased and using Stopwatch as the default. Something really needs to be done :frowning: It really sucks when you are playing some good games with full/active server and then CCity or Reactor comes up in the rotation and then it’s a full hold on the first phase, leading to a server clearout as people drop because of how boring/unfun it is.

(Apoc) #29

If they just made the +10 second defence spawntimes universal for all game types instead of just stopwatch, then the game is balanced

(.Chris.) #30

Did the increase work then?

(dazman76) #31

I despair at the fact that this “tactic” is considered justification for the layout of that map. Since when was it acceptable for a tactical game to degenerate into a race to point A? If you don’t get this done, and you’re up against a slightly more organised team, that’s a really “fun” hold on the very first objective. So many points to torture the attackers, and so easy to cover the plant point - just a few mild screw-ups with buff timing and it’s a pretty tricky plant to say the least.

The idea of a stronger defense is not intended to hold the attackers at the first hurdle - this is why the maps contain multiple objectives. A defensive bias should allow the defenders to slow the attackers in reaching their goal, and maybe stop them succeeding - this is how it needs to work for stopwatch mode. The maps are split between the sides and offense/defense, and this provides the “balance” you’re after. You could argue that objective mode requires a slightly different balance, but it’s also arguable if this even matters in pub matches - given that some players will switch sides to ensure they have the upper hand on each map.

(MrFoxer) #32

I was thinking you meant Brink shouldn’t have as many defense/attack maps and both teams should have to complete different objectives at the same time, kind of like capture the flag, then each team would kinda switch off between attacking and defending so it wouldn’t get particularly boring for either side, also less spawn camping. Why didn’t they do this?

(wolfnemesis75) #33

Been done to death in other games. Brink breaks the mold. :slight_smile:

(MrFoxer) #34

eh, that was just an example. Something like that, but with multiple objectives, maybe.

(wolfnemesis75) #35

Yeah, I hear ya! Brainstorm! :slight_smile:

(SinDonor) #36

[QUOTE=dazman76;370489]I despair at the fact that this “tactic” is considered justification for the layout of that map. Since when was it acceptable for a tactical game to degenerate into a race to point A? If you don’t get this done, and you’re up against a slightly more organised team, that’s a really “fun” hold on the very first objective. So many points to torture the attackers, and so easy to cover the plant point - just a few mild screw-ups with buff timing and it’s a pretty tricky plant to say the least.

The idea of a stronger defense is not intended to hold the attackers at the first hurdle - this is why the maps contain multiple objectives. A defensive bias should allow the defenders to slow the attackers in reaching their goal, and maybe stop them succeeding - this is how it needs to work for stopwatch mode. The maps are split between the sides and offense/defense, and this provides the “balance” you’re after. You could argue that objective mode requires a slightly different balance, but it’s also arguable if this even matters in pub matches - given that some players will switch sides to ensure they have the upper hand on each map.[/QUOTE]

Good points.

I just think the complaints of those two maps in general are nullified by great teamwork on either side. The battles at those first two objectives are SUPPOSED to be tough for the attackers. You’re breaking into each factions’ home base. A GOOD team of attackers vs an average team of defenders should usually win those 1st Obj’s. Two equal teams against each other could go either way at those 1st Obj’s. A good D team should never let an average team get past the 1st Obj’s.

BUT, just because a good attack team has gotten past the first Obj, doesn’t mean their efforts won’t stall later on in the match. I’ve seen many teams blow the first gate on CC only to have their tank stuck before it reaches the crane. Also have seen Attacking teams get stopped cold trying to open the door to let out Black-chayev.

It all depends on the skill levels of each team, and a bit of luck, plus the fact that SD probably purposely made some Obj’s tougher than others for either faction.

(BomBaKlaK) #37

I heard a lot about stopwatch ! yes something needs to be done !
but for the pubs to !

My last atempt to balance much more the game in pub is to put a fixed time of 25 min on each map in objective mod ! (1 round 25 min) olskool dude like in wolf ET and ETQW, and our both server are full ! and people come back cause they like it ! and me to ! even if its hard the challenge is to do the max during 25 min. And most part of the time the map is done by the attackers or close. but !!! (cause there is one !)

some maps are still really hard to attack, and some respawn timer adjustment can be really cool !
some attack biased for plant and hack obj is needed !! (secondary obj hack need to be faster it’s suppose to be easier to do than the primary hack obj !) really REALLY REALLY needed !! (and a little adjustment on the first carring obj on refuel)

(BomBaKlaK) #38

Remember wolf ET how hard is it to defend !! even with mines and panzer !
we want the same balance game who work perfectly in stopwatch and pub
attack biased is THE solution !