Game Balancing Ideas

(novelBase) #1

I’ve put about 11hrs into Dirty Bomb, and have discussed these issues with people who have put 30+ in, and here are some ideas that I believe would provide the game a more balanced experience for everyone, which would make it more fun as well!

Air / Orbital / Artillery Strike: These abilities need a longer cooldown. They spawn a bit too fast, so if your team or the enemy team have more than one character with these abilities it’s quite frustrating to fight them.

Another idea for these abilities is that they have a team shared cooldown.
Example: Your team has two Kira’s, and one has recently used Orbital Strike. Now any / all Kira on the same team have a cooldown on it and cannot use it for that amount of time.
With that in place, teams cannot spam the sky drops. The cooldowns for Kira would not apply to the cooldowns on Skyhammer. Although with Skyhammer, if one on your team uses the Air Strike indoors and the cooldown is reduced 75%, any other Skyhammer on your team will share that same reduced cooldown.

Aura’s Healing Station: As an Aura main, I love this, but even I can admit it’s overpowered. If played right Aura or anyone on her team can stand in the station and take out many opponents without dying. My idea for balancing this is: Anyone in combat will be healed at a decreased rate, once out of combat for a few seconds you will then be healed quicker.
So say you’re in a firefight and standing in Aura’s healing, you are then healed at 5 health every 2 seconds, but once out of combat for 5 seconds you will then be healed at the normal rate. (This would not change the amount you’re healed if you pick up a medkit, and my rate of healing is not an exact / perfect example of what should be used in game.) I’m sure the amount of health per second would need to be tweaked.

Maps: The maps on Dirty Bomb are really pleasing to jump around on and look at, but they’re not balanced so that both attackers and defenders have an equal chance at winning. There are too many camping spots, sky drops are often spammed especially when there is an EV on the map, and the maps layout favors one side. In order to fix this, the entire layout of the maps would need to change. A lot of work? Yes, but in the long run it would make a less frustrating game.

Obviously my ideas would need to be changed, and there’s probably a lot of kinks I have not touched on, but these are the main issues I’ve had / have heard other people have. Please feel free to provide your own ideas and issues, and what you would like to see changed to maybe balance the game more!

(Humbug) #2

You should have seen the healing station 2 months ago.
The healing station is totally fine now. If you destroy it aura is no medic for 20+ seconds.
Also it’s a station and has limited use in fast paced game like this. You can even kill people (not fragger or rhyno) under the station with good aim. Comp teams are already preferring sawbonez

For more balanced matches you need to play 5v5/6v6 Stopwatch.
Airstrikes are also a lot less problematic there.
The problem with the shared cooldown is that some noob will waste it for you and timing is VERY important.
In my opinion the maps are too linear/restricting and objectives are boring/annoying.
would like maps similar to ETs radar.

I think the number of 7v7 and 8v8 server should be drastically reduced, the maps are not made for that many people and it gives a wrong impression of the game.
Also we need friendly fire…

/wall of text could go on for ages

(Gi.Am) #3

Wellcome to the Forum.
Your suggestions are fine for the most part if you only consider casual objective mode.

However balancing efforts primary go toward competive play (5vs5 stopwatch).

Casual is just that, casual have fun, play what you want, don’t think too hard about balance.

To adress your points.

Longer AOE support cooldown. Would mean the EV section would be alot easier for attackers. Defenders would have to run more firesupport guys to counter that (normaly they run 1-2 in comp).

Shared cooldown is a no go especially in casual. It would introduce alot of griefing/flaming (“man I hcould have gotten a full wipe/disable the EV but some asshat n00b used the airstrike to neutralize a proxymine”).

Aura and her teammates are supposed to be very strong on the healingstation. They buy this advantage with lessened mobility (prime reason why Aura is not much seen in the cup scene) and are directly countered by AOE attacks, that will most of the time take out the healing station and anyone standing on it.

If you don’t have AOE you have to shoot the healingstation first after that Aura is no problem.

The Maps are asymetrical (as is the gameplay) and therefore allways slightly imbalanced (tho I’d say SD does a good job balancing them as good as possible).

Thats why stopwatch is the primary gameplay mode you play both side and the team that is better on both wins.

(Noble_One) #4

your orbital/call downs hurt way to much for the whole team, the same goes for auras healing station which to say isnt that strong as some say (ive killed people while in the healing area easily). and the maps are to be honest fine and are fair for both sides really.

the game does have it hiccups here and there but the things youre suggesting are things that dont really need any attention at all.

(neighborlyRetreiver) #5

Your arguements against his suggestions are actually quite suprising I literally cannot believe there are people who support Aura’s healing ring it has to be even more overpowered than BF4’s medic drop, which they nerfed to make it so you can no longer heal under suppression a good fix might I add.

You shouldn’t have great CQC ability, great speed and be able to tank using your healing ring all at the same time, sorry but that’s not balanced, it wasn’t in BF4 and it isn’t here either, in BF4 at least you only healed very slowly nowhere near as fast as you do in this game add to that and the TTK in DirtyBomb is nowhere close to BF4 either so the tedious arguement that it’s balanced simply because it was nerfed doesn’t mean that its been balanced.

I like all your suggestions OP, I’d prefer there be a global cooldown on Orbital Strike for the whole team, part of balance is modifying something purely on the skill it takes to execute it. For instance just as a purely hypothetical example if something takes 1.0x skill to execute and outputs a power of 1.5x then something that takes 0.8x skill level to execute shouldn’t output a power of 2.0x

There are two other games I’ve played with EV mission, AVA(Escort) and Blacklight Retribution out of the two I feel like Blacklight is more similiar to DirtyBomb, in a lot of ways that game was very much similiar to DirtyBomb, You’ve got Heroes or you can customize your own with a pre-set list of abilities and weapons, datanodes is like the equivalant of what loadouts are in this game and the TTK in that game was also high.

Unfortunately or fortunately for some those games are both dead. I’m gonna be honest but I don’t really like stopwatch it’s okay but there are some of us who’d just prefer a traditonal bomb planting mission.

(Gi.Am) #6

Dirty Bomb is not BF4 so a valid fix in that game might not be a valid fix in DB.
Keep in mind that DB has small linear maps and has overall fast movement people are constantly in combat.

Also people that are out of combat will regenerate HP slowly on their own a medic has to be better than that or he would be useless.

The only advantage the healingstation has, over other medics is that it heals even if you are getting shot. But it buys this advantage with a setup time, having to stay in a small area and painting said area in a nice red light that says “your AOE weapon goes here”.

On top of that Aura is the most fragile merc and she can either use her superior speed or tank on the healingstation. she can’t have both in a meaningfull way.

As for escort knowing both AvA and Blacklight. Both EV sections are far worse for the attackers then DB.

In AvA everybody can grab a rocketlauncher (sure they are gated by cooldown but not much) they kill the driver in one shot and disable the Tank in two. Furthermore if you kill a guy with a rocketlauncher someone else can pick it up and finish the job.

In Blacklight it’s even worse. Rocketlaunchers, Grenades, Hardsuits the lmg receivers. Will destroy the spidertank very fast and are easily accesable.

More importantly however if the attackers reach the goal they win (in Both games). In DB they still have to do the next objective.

If you like bomb placing tho hold tight Execution is propably right around the corner (classical CS search and destroy).

(neighborlyRetreiver) #7

[quote=“Gi.Am;24839”]Dirty Bomb is not BF4 so a valid fix in that game might not be a valid fix in DB.
Keep in mind that DB has small linear maps and has overall fast movement people are constantly in combat.

Also people that are out of combat will regenerate HP slowly on their own a medic has to be better than that or he would be useless.

The only advantage the healingstation has, over other medics is that it heals even if you are getting shot. But it buys this advantage with a setup time, having to stay in a small area and painting said area in a nice red light that says “your AOE weapon goes here”.

On top of that Aura is the most fragile merc and she can either use her superior speed or tank on the healingstation. she can’t have both in a meaningfull way.

As for escort knowing both AvA and Blacklight. Both EV sections are far worse for the attackers then DB.

In AvA everybody can grab a rocketlauncher (sure they are gated by cooldown but not much) they kill the driver in one shot and disable the Tank in two. Furthermore if you kill a guy with a rocketlauncher someone else can pick it up and finish the job.

In Blacklight it’s even worse. Rocketlaunchers, Grenades, Hardsuits the lmg receivers. Will destroy the spidertank very fast and are easily accesable.

More importantly however if the attackers reach the goal they win (in Both games). In DB they still have to do the next objective.

If you like bomb placing tho hold tight Execution is propably right around the corner (classical CS search and destroy).[/quote]

Arguement not withstanding because regardless of whether it’s a linear game that doesn’t justify it at all, there are smaller maps on BF4 much like there is in DB, BF4 is also team role based FPS shooter it goes with a more traditional style rather than the version that was popularized by TF2 though.

The setup time is not a really good arguement because although it takes time to set up, the time it does take to set up is negligible compared to the ongoing benefit it can provide, you could maybe even implement a threshold to it, make it so that after a set amount of heals it vanishes.

Also simply because she’s bunkered down near a healing pad for some unknown reason with your line of thought she’s unable to move freely? She can tank and move around there’s plenty of leeway available in that little circle and if she gets even a little low on health you can pretty much bet the player is going to scamper and make a maddash make to their healing circle.

I don’t see the fragile thing being too much of a problem, I main proxy in my squad and I’ve never seen my health as a vunerability because I have speed to make up for that and I’ve got a much smaller frame so I’m harder to spot and I can hide behind cover without being spotted, it’s like people got amnesia and forgot why Aura moves so fast in the first place.

(B_Montiel) #8

Aura seems overpowered when you start playing the game. We’ve all been through there. But after quite some time you’ll notice, especially when a good portion of players will have sawbonez, that she’s a sitting duck in numerous occasions. Her mobility is hugely countered by her station. Once you get a proper idea of movement in this game (this definitely takes quite some time), she is definitely very challenging to play correctly, and you’ll also find easy to counter her. She requires a lot of management of the station thus making her further more vulnerable very often. In my mind, except when defending objectives on point, a station can’t stay at the same place for more than 10 secs unless some explosive will be thrown at your face. An when you know it starts to heal 1.5 secs after being deployed, that’s more than 10% of time where you’re naked. Hence comp teams prefering Sawbonez as a spine medic in their team.

(GregHouseMD) #9

Aura’s 90HP won’t amount to much, even in constant healing, if you land your shots well. It might take an additional headshot or so to kill her, but it’s not too bad if it’s Aura alone. If you’re in a position where Aura can pop in and out, healing up between shots, you need to relocate. If you can’t relocate, you’ve made a mistake.

I think you’ll notice, as you play more, that there are plenty of things that are not balanced for 1v1 situations. By design. Nader’s grenade launcher is ‘unfair’ because it can kill you even when you can’t fight back ( lobbing grenades around a corner, say, or over cover ). Again, this is because you’re not supposed to.

Now, bring Nader ( or Fragger, or Skyhammer, or Fletcher, or even a decent Proxy ) to an Aura camp, and things change. The first explosive will knock out the healing station, and at that point Aura is pretty much just a worse Proxy.

(neighborlyRetreiver) #10

[quote=“GregHouseMD;24888”]Aura’s 90HP won’t amount to much, even in constant healing, if you land your shots well. It might take an additional headshot or so to kill her, but it’s not too bad if it’s Aura alone. If you’re in a position where Aura can pop in and out, healing up between shots, you need to relocate. If you can’t relocate, you’ve made a mistake.

I think you’ll notice, as you play more, that there are plenty of things that are not balanced for 1v1 situations. By design. Nader’s grenade launcher is ‘unfair’ because it can kill you even when you can’t fight back ( lobbing grenades around a corner, say, or over cover ). Again, this is because you’re not supposed to.

Now, bring Nader ( or Fragger, or Skyhammer, or Fletcher, or even a decent Proxy ) to an Aura camp, and things change. The first explosive will knock out the healing station, and at that point Aura is pretty much just a worse Proxy.[/quote]

Tell me how, more speed, defibs and higher damage from her shotgun equates to a “worse proxy” I wish my proxy was that good mayn. Remburg 7 is one of the arguably best weapons in its class.

As for the comments about naders overpoweredness in 1v1 well that sir is exactly why we request that things be balanced in the first place, how do you know they’re this way by design? God knows maybe you’re a developer in disguise I’d argue the game on release was the intentional design and image of what the developers wanted.

(GregHouseMD) #11

[quote=“neighborlyRetreiver;24895”]
Tell me how, more speed, defibs and higher damage from her shotgun equates to a “worse proxy” I wish my proxy was that good mayn. Remburg 7 is one of the arguably best weapons in its class.

As for the comments about naders overpoweredness in 1v1 well that sir is exactly why we request that things be balanced in the first place, how do you know they’re this way by design? God knows maybe you’re a developer in disguise I’d argue the game on release was the intentional design and image of what the developers wanted.[/quote]

Proxy has access to the Remburg as well, so that’s a completely moot point. Worse Proxy because she just lost her main advantage, and doesn’t have access to, you know, Proximity Mines. Oh, and 10 less HP.

By the way, Nader isn’t ‘overpowered’ 1v1. Nader is an Assault merc, and performs pretty well in that role ( at least in pubs ), but not overpowered. It’s all about knowing how to play and how to counter.

How do I know it’s by design? Because you’re playing a team-based game. Not a game where you incidentally play on the same team as others, but one where teamwork is essential in order to win. If you feel like you should be able to counter everything and fill every role no matter what, you’re playing the game wrong.

(neighborlyRetreiver) #12

[quote=“GregHouseMD;24901”][quote=“neighborlyRetreiver;24895”]
Tell me how, more speed, defibs and higher damage from her shotgun equates to a “worse proxy” I wish my proxy was that good mayn. Remburg 7 is one of the arguably best weapons in its class.

As for the comments about naders overpoweredness in 1v1 well that sir is exactly why we request that things be balanced in the first place, how do you know they’re this way by design? God knows maybe you’re a developer in disguise I’d argue the game on release was the intentional design and image of what the developers wanted.[/quote]

Proxy has access to the Remburg as well, so that’s a completely moot point. Worse Proxy because she just lost her main advantage, and doesn’t have access to, you know, Proximity Mines. Oh, and 10 less HP.

By the way, Nader isn’t ‘overpowered’ 1v1. Nader is an Assault merc, and performs pretty well in that role ( at least in pubs ), but not overpowered. It’s all about knowing how to play and how to counter.

How do I know it’s by design? Because you’re playing a team-based game. Not a game where you incidentally play on the same team as others, but one where teamwork is essential in order to win. If you feel like you should be able to counter everything and fill every role no matter what, you’re playing the game wrong.

[/quote]

But it’s presumptious to think that just because nader is good in 1v1 that’s it is intended to be used that way, things in online games never stay the same they’re the subject to great change over time, things like “It wasn’t intended to be used that way” are generally thrown around soon or later by the developers.

But we’re talking about competitive play, so no that’s no moot point though is it? In competitive play you can only use the default loadout, Aura’s default loadout is the Remburg 7 and Caulden both very good weapons.

You’re totally missing the point that Aura has access to defibs and even without her healing pad the defibs are a weapon on their own they can revive fallen allys to practically use as a scapegoat, that’s something more powerful all on its own.

No one said anything about playing outside the original roles or having a counter to everything there are just situations no matter how good you’re, eventually you’ll run into some problems, certain roles are an intregal part of the character like being a medic or an engineer but there is nothing stopping me from playing my Vasilli like an assault just a lack of skill on my part.

(GregHouseMD) #13

[quote=“neighborlyRetreiver;24920”]
But it’s presumptious to think that just because nader is good in 1v1 that’s it is intended to be used that way, things in online games never stay the same they’re the subject to great change over time, things like “It wasn’t intended to be used that way” are generally thrown around soon or later by the developers.[/quote]

… literally what. I have no idea what you’re trying to say here. Or for the rest of it, really. If you’re playing comp, you should be able to rely on your team to play the roles their mercs do well. If you need to dislodge Aura, call Fragger.

(neighborlyRetreiver) #14

[quote=“GregHouseMD;24932”][quote=“neighborlyRetreiver;24920”]
But it’s presumptious to think that just because nader is good in 1v1 that’s it is intended to be used that way, things in online games never stay the same they’re the subject to great change over time, things like “It wasn’t intended to be used that way” are generally thrown around soon or later by the developers.[/quote]

… literally what. I have no idea what you’re trying to say here. Or for the rest of it, really. If you’re playing comp, you should be able to rely on your team to play the roles their mercs do well. If you need to dislodge Aura, call Fragger.

[/quote]

Can’t comprehend English…or?

(GregHouseMD) #15

[quote=“neighborlyRetreiver;24939”]
Can’t comprehend English…or? [/quote]

Yours? No. It’d help if you cleaned up your sentences a bit.

[quote=“neighborlyRetreiver;24920”]
But it’s presumptious to think that just because nader is good in 1v1 that’s it is intended to be used that way, things in online games never stay the same they’re the subject to great change over time, things like “It wasn’t intended to be used that way” are generally thrown around soon or later by the developers.[/quote]

I have no idea what you’re trying to say here. Just because Nader is good 1v1, that doesn’t mean it’s intended to be that way? O-okay.

Fine. Aura has a good shotgun. I’ll grant you that. Of course, she still has the lowest HP of any merc, and would not see play without her healing station.

Scapegoat? What? I don’t think that means whatever you think it means. Yes, reviving is good. What of it? All medics have access to it. And, guess what: Phoenix can even ress himself!

I have no idea what you’re trying to say here.

(neighborlyRetreiver) #16

[quote=“GregHouseMD;24941”][quote=“neighborlyRetreiver;24939”]
Can’t comprehend English…or? [/quote]

Yours? No. It’d help if you cleaned up your sentences a bit.

verb
1.
make a scapegoat of.
“secret police scapegoated a few of the ringleaders to put an end to the issue”

The arguement wasn’t whether which merc was more OP it was whether Aura is OP, You’ve honestly gone far past the point, you inetionally keep pointing your fingers at other mercs, it’s not a contest. I can keep an objective point of view because I don’t steer towards any merc what so ever I’ve played everyone equally as much in my loadout so my opinion is unbiased and as someone who owns Aura and so does everyone else I can easily say right now Aura is OP.

You don’t wanna accept that? Fine be my guest but just because you refuse to accept that doesn’t mean it’s any less true.

You’ve pretty much made my point for me, right without her healing station which is overpowered by the way I could see her being far less overpowered on her own she’s fine but with that healing station and defibs it’s pretty much GG.

I’m saying FYI, that Nader may or may not be overpowered and it’s up the developers discretion on whether or not she’ll be balanced. I pretty much said “It’s a bit presumptious” and you’re still making presumptions on just whether or not she was intended to be that way, missed the point or what? Everything I said in that paragraph was pretty much true, if you don’t think any merc will change including Nader or Aura over the coming patches then I don’t know what to say, oh I do…naive.

(GregHouseMD) #17

Here, I’ll dumb it down for you: Aura is ‘OP’ with the healing station in the same way literally every merc is OP with their respective abilities: It’s easily countered with the proper tools and the proper plays. If you don’t have the right tools or the right tactics, you won’t win.

I think I’ve had enough of your rambling condescension, though. It’s not cute, and it doesn’t make you look smart.

(neighborlyRetreiver) #18

[quote=“GregHouseMD;24947”]Here, I’ll dumb it down for you: Aura is ‘OP’ with the healing station in the same way literally every merc is OP with their respective abilities: It’s easily countered with the proper tools and the proper plays. If you don’t have the right tools or the right tactics, you won’t win.

I think I’ve had enough of your rambling condescension, though. It’s not cute, and it doesn’t make you look smart.[/quote]

Haha, okay man. I wasn’t trying to be cute and I’m definetely not trying “Look smart” the fact in this case you’re wrong and whether you choose to accept it or not mercs will get balanced accordingly so that they’re more in-tune with the other mercs within their niche.

If you think I’m the one being condescending maybe it’s about high time you got off your high horse and talk to people a little more nicely in the future instead of responding with vitirol.

(straightforwardScene) #19

[quote=“Humbug;24791”]You should have seen the healing station 2 months ago.
The healing station is totally fine now. If you destroy it aura is no medic for 20+ seconds.[/quote]

The most important aspect of a medic isn’t healing but rather the insanely good ability to quickly turn a failed assault or defense into a protracted fight. Being that she is presumably the fastest character in the game currently, her ability to QUICKLY zip in and out of combat reviving downed mates is significantly more important.

No doubt, 80 HP isn’t much to have without a constant heal. But let’s be real. Medstation really can’t be used in a way that an organized team won’t blow through within 30 seconds. She’s far more useful setting it up as a relief station away from the enemy and doing “hit and run” revives with her incredible speed.

Not having a medstation when she already isn’t a combat station isn’t as big of a hit as you’re thinking it is.