G15 Gaming Keyboard


(Scared) #21

ive got a G15, i dont have a problem with it :slight_smile:

about the ā€˜dancingā€™ macro that you want to make. if you go into the software [out of game] and try to record a new macro make sure that ā€œrecord time delayā€ is selected. if its not then it tries to do all the keys at the same time.

record the macro out of game, assign it a G-key then it should work ingame. QW support would be good :slight_smile:


(AnarchyAngel) #22

yeah Ive got a g15 as well, I dont have a problem with it, Prey has G15 Support will ET QWā€™s, Wils?


(malarky) #23

Iā€™m just hitting Logitech up for one to test with, so weā€™ll see.


(Black_Forky) #24

I thought you were an IT staffer? o,0


(malarky) #25

I am, but I also look after any developer relations stuff :stuck_out_tongue:


(Grifter77) #26

Iā€™m quite sold to the concept of the DX1 , but didnā€™t ordered it yet !!! Seems like the ultimate gaming ā€œkeyboardā€ if we can use the expression. Just waiting to have Linux driver for itā€¦

Hereā€™s the link:
http://www.ergodex.com/content.php?id=12

Some reviews:
http://www.twitchguru.com/2005/03/08/the_dx1/index.html
http://www.nvnews.net/reviews/ergodex_dx1/index.shtml


(AnarchyAngel) #27

Any Ideas what your going to have displayed on screen? Can we help contribute to how its going to be at all?


(Moriarty) #28

well please have the G15 support ET:QW as i just ordered one (30 bucks CHEAP!) and i also pre-ordered ET:QWā€¦ If u want I am availible for beta testing them togatherā€¦(hint hint)ā€¦
Also from what I hear the g15 is easily configured and also has a number of sites that support it.


(ouroboro) #29

Donā€™t be so quick to joke. There are some very useful - and very questionable - things that can be done with a ā€œmacro keyboard.ā€ Weā€™re talkinā€™ stuff thatā€™s been specifically outlawed in competition, and for which steps have been taken by developers to prevent. Obviously Iā€™m not going to go into details here, but Iā€™ve got some interesting ā€œevidence.ā€ :wink:


(Pillsbury) #30

@ Moriarty

If I may ask please, from whom did you place your pre order with? And if I remember correctly there was something about being able to reserve your name if you preordered. Were you able to do that?


(Hakuryu) #31

Any Ideas what your going to have displayed on screen? Can we help contribute to how its going to be at all?

If at all possible, a setup ini file or something from which you could map any variables from the console to the lcd would be awesome. Prey shows a compass, health, and other stuff, but it doesnā€™t seem to be customizable.

Donā€™t be so quick to joke. There are some very useful - and very questionable - things that can be done with a ā€œmacro keyboard.ā€ Weā€™re talkinā€™ stuff thatā€™s been specifically outlawed in competition, and for which steps have been taken by developers to prevent. Obviously Iā€™m not going to go into details here, but Iā€™ve got some interesting ā€œevidence.ā€

Any keyboard is a macro keyboard, not just the G15. A program runs in the background which intercepts the G key strokes and then does the macro. There are programs out there that work with any keyboard to do the same thing, but the macros are assigned to normal keys. Iā€™ll bet this evidence you have cant be shown due to others using it afterward then right? Lol, nice try.


(AnarchyAngel) #32

Id Say the G15 is more of a ā€œbindsā€ key board as you have to assign real keys to the Macro. Its really only good for repeative tasks, such as ā€œsayā€ binds or behaps combos.


(ouroboro) #33

Pretty much correct, yes. And thanks.


(nUllSkillZ) #34

Something Iā€™ve just came across.
Mouse modding but fitā€™s the G15:
Project: LogiNoki


(Isabel Lucas) #35

Donā€™t be so quick to joke. There are some very useful - and very questionable - things that can be done with a ā€œmacro keyboard.ā€ Weā€™re talkinā€™ stuff thatā€™s been specifically outlawed in competition, and for which steps have been taken by developers to prevent. Obviously Iā€™m not going to go into details here, but Iā€™ve got some interesting ā€œevidence.ā€

I donā€™t think thereā€™s anything that anyone who doesnā€™t either know about macros or isnā€™t capable of googling them couldnā€™t find out, so its no big secret.

To keep the macro discussion specifially off ET as a courtesy to players on here, its well known in Battlefield that Macros can be used to automate prone jumping and helicopter tv missile guiding - both of which are based on repetitive key strokes which as a poster above said, is the basis for a maco program. It just automates the process of pressing a large number of keys or small number of keys repeated a large number of times into a single button. eg. In BF2, the helicopter tv guided missile is steered by left clicking the mouse, every left click re-adjusts the aim to where to the crosshair is currently pointing so by moving the cross hairs and left clicking you car steer the missile. Some people are known to have macroā€™ed this to give a fast repeated left click by simply holding down a key on the keyboard, as the faster you click the more steerage you get. Also, not physically left clicking on the mouse leaves the mouse totally free for aiming alone and holds it steadier than if your fingers are banging down on the buttons frantically. This is the advantage of macros and this is why they are cheating when used like this. I dare say ET and ETQW will have their own key combinations that could fall victim to macros.

That said, not all macros are bad. Whilst macros that take away skill and control from the player may be, other macros eg. ones that show health / weapon status / leaving or joining or forming of squads / team speak users and whoā€™s speaking on the G15 display are useful and are fully without question as they are informational or incedental only.

Its like everything it just depends on how they are used. It need gaming companies to be aware of the effects of macros and alleviate their use by preventing the advantages of control based macros. eg. In the example I gave above, the obvious solution would be to test the number of manual left clicks possible per second and then limit the game to only recognise a input signal from the left button so many times per second. So eg. if it was possible to click manually 6 times a second max, then the game could be told to only accept the 1st 6 clicks in any 1 sec period. Not only does this stop the advantage of the macro but it also creates a disadvantage as once the 6 clicks are up, it creates a deadspot where thereā€™s no response. So use the 6 clicks up in the 1st 0.2 secs via a macro and you have 0.8 secs in which the missile goes dead actually making it less advantageous to use a macro than not as that time period could just be critical. Same with moves like prone jumping, they all need repeated key strokes. Put a limit on the repeats allowed on specific key combinations and you stop the usefulness of the macro.

Al.


(BrightSoul) #36

Instead of displaying redundant informations or informations that may give an advantage to players who own it, why donā€™t you treat the G15 display as a dot matrix panel, just like the ones pinballs have?
It could display funny stuff, such as a tapir parade when you get killed 10 times in a row OR it could entertain you with rotating messages and animations while you are dead and waiting to respawn.

Also, an animation could be matched to some voice chat commands. Look at this:

It says ā€œAttack!ā€.


(zenith-ply) #37

Sā€™funny, Iā€™ve never used a kb playing fps. Always a prog. throttle [ch-568] and a mouse. Response can be less than a kb. @ times, but Iā€™ve always liked the feel of it.


(Hakuryu) #38

I have played BF2 quite a bit, player Hakuryu - First Seargent. I know about the TV missiles functionality.

It seems to me that is something that Punkbuster is primed to detect. When a TV is fired, if the player left clicks 500 times before a missile hits, then Iā€™d say that is an easy way to catch this ā€˜cheatā€™. Just because things are possible like this, doesnā€™t mean that anyone with a keyboard that can do macros (which is basically all of them with software) is going to do this.

Iā€™ve heard about people macroā€™ing dolphin diving in BF2 also. A macro is always the same, so once again PB should detect thisā€¦ if a player always hits prone after jumping exactly .72 seconds into a jump every time, then most likely they are doing this.

Guns dont kill people; people kill people. Macros dont cheat; people cheat.


(Isabel Lucas) #39

It seems to me that is something that Punkbuster is primed to detect. When a TV is fired, if the player left clicks 500 times before a missile hits, then Iā€™d say that is an easy way to catch this ā€˜cheatā€™. Just because things are possible like this, doesnā€™t mean that anyone with a keyboard that can do macros (which is basically all of them with software) is going to do this.

Whilst I agree in principle I think using PB to do it isnā€™t quite that easy.

Most hack sites analyise PB code so as to assist them in developing ways around detection. Any hack developer worth his salt would simply circumvent PB in these circumstances by reducing the number of clicks to 1 or 2 below what PB detects - so in your example if PB detected at 500, theyā€™d set 499 or on such a high number maybe 490 to give a buffer. Obviously if the figure was low enough as to be realistically possible this couldnā€™t happen but then genuine players would be at risk of getting a global ban simply because they could click faster than the average person. With in game blocking the worst that happens is the missile goes dead for a fraction of a second and if the limit is high enough to cover almost any genuine player, this would probably never be experienced by anyone other than a macro user.

Also, it would be impossible for PB to detect key strokes. PB works in part by scanning the game code for jump instructions ie instructions telling the pc to jump to another area of code - usually the hack code and usually in a ā€œcode caveā€ in the memory (although with DMI detection is evens harder these days). Jump codes tend to occur at known locations. So PB doesnā€™t have to scan too much of either the game code or memory. If you were to start getting PB to analyse every key stroke input made by a player then the game lag would be unbelieveable. This is why I say its better for the developers to address it via repeat restrictions on known problem key combinations a if its done properly this way, it need never affect the genuine player. eg. Its possible to still allow a player to get up from prone and dolphin dive to prone multiple times whilst denying prone jumping as the key combination is slightly different.

I also think we have to be careful here when calling for restrictions not to restrict skillful moves that arenā€™t always liked - eg dolphin diving and bunny hopping to name two (latter not skilful to do but requires more skill of the player trying to kill you in tracking your movement). These need to be seperated from moves that exploit the game engine eg. prone jumping which exploits hit box weaknesses. Iā€™m led to believe that SD donā€™t believe in unecessary nerfs which is spot on with my thinking on gameplay. Iā€™m all for jumping and shooting, dolphin diving and a whole whost of other moves that demand skill but donā€™t exploit the game engine. Iā€™m just against cheating via hacks, player control macros or hit box exploits.

Al.


(B0rsuk) #40

The TV missile thingy smells like a bad design to me. I donā€™t think SD are stupid enough to implement something so abusable.

Ok, so you can make pistol/Garand fire faster when you keep pressing fire instead of holding itā€¦ But itā€™s not a big deal (except for the poor mouse and your finger). Thereā€™s recoil in W:ET. And those weapons have small enough clips anyway.