Force team balance.

(SinDonor) #21

I will have gaming sessions where I go 10-15 matches in a row on the same server. I can tell you win or lose, people drop out all the time. Some of the reasons people drop out:

  1. Got their butts kicked and are rage-quitting.
  2. Leveled up and are choosing a new ability.
  3. Friends popped online and they leave to join their friend’s game.
  4. Choose another character.
  5. Want to switch factions and one side is full.
  6. Hates a certain map.
  7. Just done playing Brink for the day.
  8. House got hit by a meteor.

The issue is not why people are leaving, but just that it takes 2-10 minutes for other people to join and take their spot.

The BIGGEST difference between Brink and most other games is that Brink lets people keep playing while they wait for other people to join while other games make you wait in the lobby for the game to fill up. I prefer Brink’s way better. Now if they could just figure out how to get players in the game faster and/or make the bots AI get tougher if their team is getting walloped, I’d be much happier.

(wolfnemesis75) #22

[QUOTE=illmeister80;370554]oh yes, there will be plenty of awesome team skills showcased when the other side is getting steam rolled. end sarcasm.

i think in certain situations like 2 v 6 situations, it’s ok to split up and balance the game out. if the teams somehow get semi-even, then sure, switch over to play with your friend again. but, thinking like this only helps to kill the game when the “big picture” goal should be trying to get everyone to love it as much as possible. we want this game to grow and thrive so we can continue to get updates, fixes, new players, more servers. like i said, imagine being a new player and seeing the horrible stacked teams in every game you join. bad taste in mouth anyone?[/QUOTE]

If you can suggest a fair way to do Auto Balance, I am all for it. But it’s harder than it seems. Many reasons why matches get imbalanced. Not just because of skill. Some people I have heard will ONLY play as Security for instance. True story. :slight_smile:

(illmeister80) #23

[QUOTE=SinDonor;370555]
The issue is not why people are leaving, but just that it takes 2-10 minutes for other people to join and take their spot.

The BIGGEST difference between Brink and most other games is that Brink lets people keep playing while they wait for other people to join while other games make you wait in the lobby for the game to fill up. I prefer Brink’s way better. Now if they could just figure out how to get players in the game faster and/or make the bots AI get tougher if their team is getting walloped, I’d be much happier.[/QUOTE]

well, 10 minutes can make a huge difference in a game, wouldn’t you say? also, although i hate the fact that rage quitters ruin games like Brink which relies so heavily on other teammates in order for you to get anything done, my main concern is with what happens if teams get severely imbalanced after a number of people rage quit and teams have become very imbalanced. i’m sure if you’re rage quitting, you were already on the losing side, so imagine a few of those people leave. now, you’re in a 2 v 8 situation, and no one switches over to help. yup, no fun, and no way to even things out. you just gotta get your **** pushed in until help arrives, which may be never.

also, i will disagree with you and say that in time based objective games like Brink, i think that a lobby would work infinitely better. this would allow EVERYONE to see how many people are on each side before a match starts. this way, at least you can try to make teams even before the timer starts ticking. then, if people join during the match, it should stagger which side they are put on to try and maintain equal numbers.

(SinDonor) #24

[QUOTE=illmeister80;370558]well, 10 minutes can make a huge difference in a game, wouldn’t you say? also, although i hate the fact that rage quitters ruin games like Brink which relies so heavily on other teammates in order for you to get anything done, my main concern is with what happens if teams get severely imbalanced after a number of people rage quit and teams have become very imbalanced. i’m sure if you’re rage quitting, you were already on the losing side, so imagine a few of those people leave. now, you’re in a 2 v 8 situation, and no one switches over to help. yup, no fun, and no way to even things out. you just gotta get your **** pushed in until help arrives, which may be never.

also, i will disagree with you and say that in time based objective games like Brink, i think that a lobby would work infinitely better. this would allow EVERYONE to see how many people are on each side before a match starts. this way, at least you can try to make teams even before the timer starts ticking. then, if people join during the match, it should stagger which side they are put on to try and maintain equal numbers.[/QUOTE]

Definitely. If a match doesn’t fill up with people within 10 minutes, something is broken, but forcing auto-balance is NOT the answer. You’ll have more people quitting if they’re separated from their friends or have to play on a side they don’t want to. Maybe they’ve been playing on the Res side all day and now want to play some Sec for the rest of the day. But if the game forces them to switch sides…goodbye!

If I have to wait 5-10 minutes in a lobby for people to join, I am gonna quit to look for a better match.

Like I said in my previous post:

Now if they could just figure out how to get players in the game faster and/or make the bots AI get tougher if their team is getting walloped, I’d be much happier.

(illmeister80) #25

i suggest at least the options to turn auto-balancing on. this way, people who feel the same as me and others and run Brink servers can turn it on. this gives you the option to play there if you like auto-balancing, or if you hate it, you can find another server that has the options turned off. my belief is that auto-balancing will make it a much better experience for your average player and should be on by default on most servers. the servers with the auto-balancing turned off should be labeled so in their titles, and i think this would create a place where a bit more coordinated teams/friends can get some more serious matches going.

but, not even having these options in a game relying solely on other team members is kind of ridiculous in my book… especially with how bad the bots are.

(illmeister80) #26

[QUOTE=SinDonor;370561]Definitely. If a match doesn’t fill up with people within 10 minutes, something is broken, but forcing auto-balance is NOT the answer. You’ll have more people quitting if they’re separated from their friends or have to play on a side they don’t want to. Maybe they’ve been playing on the Res side all day and now want to play some Sec for the rest of the day. But if the game forces them to switch sides…goodbye!

If I have to wait 5-10 minutes in a lobby for people to join, I am gonna quit to look for a better match.

Like I said in my previous post:[/QUOTE]

you don’t get me. i’d say maybe a minute max in lobby. my only reasoning for a lobby: you can clearly see how many people are on each side. that way, some people can switch over and even things out before the match begins, even if it turns out to be 3v3 or 4v4, at least it would be even. is it clearer now?

the way it is now, you can’t even see how many people are on the other side at the end of the match, and you can’t switch sides till the match starts. scratch that… you CAN’T EVEN SWITCH when the match begins! you have to wait till you die once or whatever. it’s just really poorly thought out and set up.

(wolfnemesis75) #27

[QUOTE=illmeister80;370562]i suggest at least the options to turn auto-balancing on. this way, people who feel the same as me and others and run Brink servers can turn it on. this gives you the option to play there if you like auto-balancing, or if you hate it, you can find another server that has the options turned off. my belief is that auto-balancing will make it a much better experience for your average player and should be on by default on most servers. the servers with the auto-balancing turned off should be labeled so in their titles, and i think this would create a place where a bit more coordinated teams/friends can get some more serious matches going.

but, not even having these options in a game relying solely on other team members is kind of ridiculous in my book… especially with how bad the bots are.[/QUOTE]
Gears of War 2 has auto balance but its at the end of the match. And has bots during a match. But is quite different in that there’s no Classes. Everyone starts at a level playing field in terms of just rushing for weapons or using default weapons, so its not as easy to implement something like that into Brink. I had suggested earlier in this thread or similar ones that you could cue a vote just as you do now to join a fireteam. The voting system is already in place in Brink. You could initiate a vote to auto balance. But guess what, if those who are playing together do not want to vote or even rebalance, the vote is not gonna go the way of the team with less people. But, a vote is the only way it could be done, and still is only initiating a balancing. Having its own playlist will still result in imbalanced games do to the many reasons people drop in and out. This forum is a great place to find people to play with to schedule times to play and coordinate a good time to play together. If not here, where else will you find a good number of Brink players right off the bat? :slight_smile:

(SinDonor) #28

[QUOTE=illmeister80;370565]you don’t get me. i’d say maybe a minute max in lobby. my only reasoning for a lobby: you can clearly see how many people are on each side. that way, some people can switch over and even things out before the match begins, even if it turns out to be 3v3 or 4v4, at least it would be even. is it clearer now?

the way it is now, you can’t even see how many people are on the other side at the end of the match, and you can’t switch sides till the match starts. scratch that… you CAN’T EVEN SWITCH when the match begins! you have to wait till you die once or whatever. it’s just really poorly thought out and set up.[/QUOTE]

I check the population in the match I am in IMMEDIATELY after the game is over. Simply go to the Scoreboard, then hit the buttons to see either side. You can see who’s staying and who is dropping out very easily before the next level loads.

It’s true you can’t switch sides until the new match starts. I don’t know why SD limited that. I would care much less though if bot AI had live scaling during matches. Hell, even with the basic bot AI in Standard Pub, half of the bots are better than some of the newbians! At least bots will give me a damned health boost/revive.

(illmeister80) #29

no, voting never works. like i said, i believe that the option to turn on auto-balancing should be given. let the people decide what type of server they want to play on. i feel strongly that a lot of people would play on the auto-balancing servers.

also, maybe this is a bit of a stretch, but maybe if you DO get auto-switched, you have the option to pick from your characters at the moment of the switch. that way, you can try and fill whatever gap needs to be filled on the team you got switched to. this would fix whatever “class imbalance” issues you are talking about. but, this option is ONLY given if you get auto-switched. this could work the more i think about it.

(wolfnemesis75) #30

[QUOTE=illmeister80;370569]no, voting never works. like i said, i believe that the option to turn on auto-balancing should be given. let the people decide what type of server they want to play on. i feel strongly that a lot of people would play on the auto-balancing servers.

also, maybe this is a bit of a stretch, but maybe if you DO get auto-switched, you have the option to pick from your characters at the moment of the switch. that way, you can try and fill whatever gap needs to be filled on the team you got switched to. this would fix whatever “class imbalance” issues you are talking about. but, this option is ONLY given if you get auto-switched. this could work the more i think about it.[/QUOTE]
All good points. :slight_smile:

(illmeister80) #31

[QUOTE=SinDonor;370567]I check the population in the match I am in IMMEDIATELY after the game is over. Simply go to the Scoreboard, then hit the buttons to see either side. You can see who’s staying and who is dropping out very easily before the next level loads.

It’s true you can’t switch sides until the new match starts. I don’t know why SD limited that. I would care much less though if bot AI had live scaling during matches. Hell, even with the basic bot AI in Standard Pub, half of the bots are better than some of the newbians! At least bots will give me a damned health boost/revive.[/QUOTE]

yeah, i check the scoreboard after every match, and i’m sure everyone else does too. but you can’t do anything but look. it’s like “Hey, it’s me, Brink. Take a look, it’s 1v8 and you just got gangbanged. Ok! Just making sure you know! XOXO”. Then, you repeat the same thing the next map because no one wants to switch, and even if someone does try to switch, they can’t. They say **** it, let’s steam roll this dude again because i’m over trying to switch sides. HAHA!

(SinDonor) #32

It’s rare for us to go 8 vs 1 for an entire match. It may happen that it’s 8vs6, then 4 guys leave in the middle b/c we’re winning and then it is 8 vs 2 for the rest of the match. If nobody joins the next match, we take it easy until more people show up. Sucks, but it’s better we do that than rape the 2 guys on the other side. If there’s 3 or 4 of us in a party, we’ll all flip sides so it’s 4 vs 5.

ONCE AGAIN: Scalable bot AI will make 8vs1-2 tolerable until people join the match. Also, if there’s any way to speed up people joining the match, that’d be nice too. Dunno if SD can do this or even cares.

But if you force me to auto-balance, I’m outta there.

(wolfnemesis75) #33

Competitive Mode is an option for folks who want balanced teams the majority of the time. Also Small Teams. Or Campaign Mode. :slight_smile:

(illmeister80) #34

[QUOTE=SinDonor;370574]It’s rare for us to go 8 vs 1 for an entire match. It may happen that it’s 8vs6, then 4 guys leave in the middle b/c we’re winning and then it is 8 vs 2 for the rest of the match. If nobody joins the next match, we take it easy until more people show up. Sucks, but it’s better we do that than rape the 2 guys on the other side. If there’s 3 or 4 of us in a party, we’ll all flip sides so it’s 4 vs 5.

ONCE AGAIN: Scalable bot AI will make 8vs1-2 tolerable until people join the match. Also, if there’s any way to speed up people joining the match, that’d be nice too. Dunno if SD can do this or even cares.

But if you force me to auto-balance, I’m outta there.[/QUOTE]

sounds like you’ve had better luck than i have playing balanced games. note, i’m a PC player and i’ve only been playing since the free weekend, but i’ve put in a good 40 hours and have run into the stacked team issue too many times.

about the bots: don’t even know how they can successfully scale the bots UP from what i’m seeing. sure, they can aim better, or have more health. my biggest complaint with bots is their overall intelligence. they just seem so confused with all of the objectives. also, bot medics should revive HUMANS players first. that’s just the way it should be programmed because you need to keep the REAL people that are playing up. i watched a bot spend all of its skill points reviving other bots while he was standing right over my body. makes no sense to me personally.

in my opinion, it won’t be as simple as scaling the bots up to balance things out as it seems like there still needs to be a lot of things worked out for bots in general. i’m sure it’s no easy task with all of the different objectives and skills the bots need to balance, but the fact still remains. bots are lacking.

p.s. wish more players were like you! :penguin:

(SinDonor) #35

[QUOTE=illmeister80;370581]sounds like you’ve had better luck than i have playing balanced games. note, i’m a PC player and i’ve only been playing since the free weekend, but i’ve put in a good 40 hours and have run into the stacked team issue too many times.

about the bots: don’t even know how they can successfully scale the bots UP from what i’m seeing. sure, they can aim better, or have more health. my biggest complaint with bots is their overall intelligence. they just seem so confused with all of the objectives. also, bot medics should revive HUMANS players first. that’s just the way it should be programmed because you need to keep the REAL people that are playing up. i watched a bot spend all of its skill points reviving other bots while he was standing right over my body. makes no sense to me personally.

in my opinion, it won’t be as simple as scaling the bots up to balance things out as it seems like there still needs to be a lot of things worked out for bots in general. i’m sure it’s no easy task with all of the different objectives and skills the bots need to balance, but the fact still remains. bots are lacking.

p.s. wish more players were like you! :penguin:[/QUOTE]

Well thanks for that last line.

And, yeah, we’re on the 360. The community is a bit larger over there.