flat textures need to be allowed again

(DarkangelUK) #41

If its in the options its then perfectly fine as all can get to it very easily, config butchering is another matter completely but seems some people need that edge to get anywhere. Don’t know how this is complicated to understand, if it gives you an advantage beyond standard menu then it should not be allowed… and not one single person is giving anything close to an convincing argument otherwise.

(fubar) #42

Yet, it was suggested that we have a “competitive/minimal” PRESET IN THE OPTIONS and you still kept arguing against it.

(mti_) #43

Not to forget they asked for all values that people tinker with to add them to the ingame option menu.

(DarkangelUK) #44

And thats whats happening, with the texture lods limit being 256, yet people aren’t happy about that and want to be able to change it in the config.Splash Damage will not put an option in the settings to make the game look like utter crap, and you’re a fool if you think they will, they will also not allow config fuxing to do the same… are you really reading this thread or just having fun with caps lock?

(DarkangelUK) #45

I also love the circular logic, mti_ says he does it to get a competitive edge, giving everyone that option will remove that edge therefore it becomes pointless and moot… you guys are cray cray

(Kroad) #46

solution isnt to ban cfgs, its to add ultra low settings to menu (the games current low setting should really be medium tbh)

better fps is a distinct advantage when you are below your monitor’s refresh rate and have stuttering/etc
couple ms reaction times extra are not when you might prefer the feel of higher quality

[QUOTE=Ashog;533255]
The point is that not only the selected few competitive players do that, but everybody does that, else it wouldn’t work. And this is only possible by setting strict limitations and carefullly thought through minimum levels of texture quality… That is what the devs are doing currenlty, I only hope that they don’t cater again to some loud/big mouths and don’t come up with an intermediate ineffective solution, as it often happened.[/quote]
i dont even understand what you’re saying here, are you saying that only comp players do it? solution is to make everyone have easy access to it, put it in menus

[QUOTE=Ashog;533255]
Most or not - couldn’t care less. It should be all so that players have a same base level of graphics to start with so there’s never any legitimacy doubts and no more cfg wars, but rather pure skill wars.[/quote]
agreed, lets also set sensitivity at 10cm/360 for everyone, fov at 65, and fps cap at 30, wouldn’t want any advantages. Note how the first two are preference, just like graphic settings.

[QUOTE=Ashog;533255]
Except that they don’t. Memory leak and cpu bottleneck have nothing to do with textures. This game is cpu bottlenecked, not gpu. Devs have said it many times. I can still play the game using current menu’s low settings smoothly using my GTX285, provided I overclock my i7-920 cpu.[/QUOTE]
cpu bottlenecks yes, unless you have a bad gpu. VRAM memory leak is related to textures, because lower quality textures fill up less VRAM.

people aren’t happy about 256 being minimum because it’s a pretty high minimum and there’s no need for it to be that high
yes, all games with ultra low settings that make them look like crap in menu have failed and the devs are crazy, just like quake which is considered one of the best competitive shooters and has done a lot better than what I think DB devs can even hope for.

so many players can’t run this game well, even people with high end PCs get stuttering and the like, I can’t imagine what laptop users etc will feel like (because there are a lot of people that still play on **** PCs)

(DarkangelUK) #47

[QUOTE=Kroad;533280]
so many players can’t run this game well, even people with high end PCs get stuttering and the like, I can’t imagine what laptop users etc will feel like (because there are a lot of people that still play on **** PCs)[/QUOTE]

it’s almost like you’re not paying attention

(mti_) #48

An edge over default settings, not an edge that is unobtainable for others. Building a config is one thing, excluding others another.
Your agument is “SD wont make their game look bad” but quite frankly I dont think anyone is playing it for the glorious UT3 engine gfx. Why is that a factor? If I want my game to look like Lego and everyone can chose to do it why shouldnt I be allowed to?
Even for ET and Quake where cfg is quite an important part of the entire experience (notice how there you really do need to go into the cfg and how netcode stuff can be changed) it is as simple as downloading a cfg from some pro you found online.
Currently the screen feels cluttered. I want to be able to resize and move HUD elements and I want to be able to get rid of pretty much all texture detail. I dont mind at all if this functionality is easily accessible for everyone, you seem to have misunderstood that.

(DarkangelUK) #49

[QUOTE=mti_;533283]An edge over default settings, not an edge that is unobtainable for others. Building a config is one thing, excluding others another.
Your agument is “SD wont make their game look bad” but quite frankly I dont think anyone is playing it for the glorious UT3 engine gfx. Why is that a factor? If I want my game to look like Lego and everyone can chose to do it why shouldnt I be allowed to?
Even for ET and Quake where cfg is quite an important part of the entire experience (notice how there you really do need to go into the cfg and how netcode stuff can be changed) it is as simple as downloading a cfg from some pro you found online.
Currently the screen feels cluttered. I want to be able to resize and move HUD elements and I want to be able to get rid of pretty much all texture detail. I dont mind at all if this functionality is easily accessible for everyone.[/QUOTE]

Doesn’t matter what reason they’re playing it for, SD will not make their game look like Mario 64, simple as that and there’s no justifiable reason for it.

(47__) #50

SD has a track record for allowing their users to tweak their config files so I am not sure where you got that from.

If they suddenly changed their mind with one of their titles, god forbid it.

Not sure why I keep writing, the “debate” is over, really, it is.

(mti_) #51

I wouldnt expect them to make it the default setting and the reason for it to be an option would be that a part of the community is asking for it.

(Kroad) #52

it’s almost like i noticed an instant fps loss (and most importantly, game felt a lot less smooth) when flat textures were limited

“no justifiable reason for it”
your argument is just “cant explain it, that’s the way it is”. Succesful games have done this, no reason SD should refuse to

(DarkangelUK) #53

[QUOTE=Kroad;533288]it’s almost like i noticed an instant fps loss (and most importantly, game felt a lot less smooth) when flat textures were limited

“no justifiable reason for it”
your argument is just “cant explain it, that’s the way it is”. Succesful games have done this, no reason SD should refuse to[/QUOTE]

And yet you still didn’t supply a justifiable reason, and I know why, because there isn’t one. Optimisation is still happening, a recent discovery of HUD alpha causing performance issues was discovered as well… letting people butcher the graphics for that ‘edge’ is not a fix and quite frankly poor development practice. At the risk of repeating myself, SD won’t create a default option in the menu that makes the game look like crap, especially when it’s unnecessary.

Can someone provide examples of where devs have given the option to make their game look like utter trash from the in-game menu?

[QUOTE=47__;533286]SD has a track record for allowing their users to tweak their config files so I am not sure where you got that from.

If they suddenly changed their mind with one of their titles, god forbid it.

Not sure why I keep writing, the “debate” is over, really, it is.[/QUOTE]
And it got abused to the point where leagues had to put CFG limits in place and set punkbuster to kick people that were abusing those limits. People can’t be trusted.

#54

I think flat textures is an arena-thing / quake-related-thing: the “picmip 10 feel” for ultra-twitch-shooters, which mostly oldies play. The fight between tactial (CS) and speedy twitchy (Quake-ish), I’d say CS won, in terms of playernumbers, due to accessability, back in the day.
(Now Quake Live has takes steps to make QL more accessable as a new player, with about 5 skill levels. Back when Quake didnt have skill levels, CS then grew faster, since a beginner didnt hurt the team as much there. Making the game more “accessable”.)

Warsow got flat textures mostly. When I saw it for the first time, years ago, I thought of they like flat textures / picmip 10 available in Quake 3. Also bright skins is a given for arena shooters.

//youtu.be/kUPlwxQ0cC4

What you are fighting about is to me a fight about game identity:

  1. ultra arena-shooters (flat textures available, bright skins avilable, maxfps, fov)
  2. middleground shooters (maxfps, fov)
  3. ultra-casual shooters (barely any settings, basicly a console game)

To me it seems DB is in the middle.

DB can release an “Arena mode” (as an alternative to objective, SW, execution) without it to interfeer with the integrity of the other modes.

I my self is longing for SD to realise we need

  • 1vs1 mode (aim training vs friend)
  • 1vsbots mode (aim training vs bots)
  • Gun game mode (for casual aiming, a nicer team deathmatch mode)
  • Trickjumping mode for jump training
  • And an arena mode would be cool as well. (everyone got boosted movement maybe, flat textures, and bright skins)

I hope obj, sw and exec, is not the only modes this game gonna have. When mods are not allowed, people still need to be entertained, so it means we need many official modes (Modes that are already prooven / established modes that people enjoy)

(Kroad) #55

a justifiable reason which you actually quoted is the instant noticeable performance loss when flat textures were limited
maybe game will eventually be optimized to the point where they’re not needed but we’re not there yet and so flat textures should remain until then, devs promised that cvars wouldn’t be limited until optimization was done and it makes me sad that they did not keep their promise

[QUOTE=JBRAA;533291]I think flat textures is a arena-thing / quake-related-thing: the “picmip 10 feel” for ultra-twitch-shooters, which mostly oldies play. The fight between tactial (CS) and speedy twitchy (Quake-ish), I’d say CS won, in terms of playernumbers, and accessability, back in the day.
[/QUOTE]

cs didn’t succeed over quake because quake had flat textures and cs didn’t, flat textures or not has nothing to do with arena shooter or tactical shooter

it does however help a game to succeed when the players can run it, not sure why

#56

[QUOTE=Kroad;533295]cs didn’t succeed over quake because quake had flat textures and cs didn’t, flat textures or not has nothing to do with arena shooter or tactical shooter

it does however help a game to succeed when the players can run it, not sure why[/QUOTE]

True, I just mentioned it as a sidenote. I believe cs won in numbers due to accessability for beginners.

Also with crappy laptops, you could get 20FPS with ingame graphics in Quake 3, but if you did picmip 10, the laptop ran the game smooth. But that was back in the day.

Sorry for being slightly off topic. Continue your discussion.

(chickenNwaffles) #57

I remember when syku showed my how to get texture levels below 32x64 to finally work and not make the game look like I was on acid; the red player models, although bright (and op?) were something that I just couldn’t play with (not because I was trying to be a good guy or anything, it was just hard to flick to heads with it on).

That was a great day! Finally, I could make the game look like ql, or tribes with -NOTEXTURESTREAMING, or any crappy UE3 engine game for that matter. I thought that the community, full of competitive dudes from a wide variety of games would love to share and use this config that I have spend a lot of time making; I thought that everyone would use it and love it. I streamed with it on, and gave the config to anyone who asked! I even showed new players how to install it!

In tribes ascend, everyone in the community used some type of config: there were configs for ****ty laptops, configs for snipers, configs for ppl that still wanted the game to look like med-low graphics, but didn’t have the ****ty vfx (bloom, god rays, ect…). It was great! There were tons of resources on configs: how to use them, how to make them, where to find them, ect… Nobody, and I mean NOBODY every spoke out against the configs (even the casuals) and said that they gave an unfair advantage (unlike this community)

The amount of whiplash I received was stupendous. I was debating with people on stream 24/7 about how the configs really didn’t matter, and how they were a matter of preference. That really didn’t move them, however, as people these days seem to have an excuse for anything. I even stopped playing on my flat textures, just to prove a point! Nothing changed the minds of the casuals; they took to the forums and MADE SD limit the configs to a fair 32x64 (256 is far to unreasonable, SD).

If I never gave out that stuff like cocaine (well, I got it from syku first :^), and never streamed, flat textures would still around…

For some reason, this community tries to find an excuse when it comes to their lack of (aim, gamesense, movement, fps, ect…).

People have to learn that configs are a matter of preference.

PkD could go on winning another 5 cups in a row with max graphics configs - if of course, they got 140+ fps stable).

Sigh I guess that worse players get to determine the fate of the game’s balance, graphics, and future? Seems fair right?

(DarkangelUK) #58

So everyone circlejerked, patted themselves on the back and proclaimed all was good because they said it was… give me a break. Config tweaking has been an issue for comp orientated games for ages, again hence there being measures put in place to stop extreme tweaking. I have to question the integrity of someone if they honestly don’t think its giving them advantage, and bull**** through their own teeth that its just personal preference and not about the gains.

Also you’re just being a dick in your last statement so you lose any credibility.

(Kroad) #59

why

(DarkangelUK) #60

[QUOTE=Kroad;533301]
why[/QUOTE]

You’re either an idiot or an asshole, which one?