First Official Brink Footage Released, Shows Off SMART

(Ragoo) #181

Dude, can you not admit that you just lost the argument?

If BRINK forced you to play it like this:

You’d say “Yeah, I wanna do this because BRINK is a completely new IP and if SD thinks it’s best for crouching to hit shift and then hold down a different button it should be the best for BRINK and I don’t want my old and simple options back.”

Sorry if I’m being harsh, probably alcohol did this to me, but what you say is just stupid.

And also you wouldn’t want them to implement a second option for what reason? Because you want to force everyone else to do it like you do it?

(H0RSE) #182

no, if I had to hit 2 button to maintain a crouch, I would think that was stupid. I like having 1 button to do 1 thing, which is why I like a dedicated nade button. 1 button to do one thing…cleaner, simpler, more efficient.

(Ryan) #183

Dude, omg.

It is a SUGGESTION to PUT IT IN because THAT IS WHAT WE PREFER.
And wth does it got to do that its not a PC exclusive game to deny that option for PC gamers then!?

And who cares if its a new game! New games should IMPROVE on old games!
Go troll somewhere else and stop forcing us to use your freaky keyboard technique

(shirosae) #184

And if I told you that no, you don’t get to set your controls up in a way you’re comfortable with, you need to do it the way I like it, you’d also think I was stupid, and you’d be right.

If you come up with some alternative control system that works and is simple to implement, I’ll happily support its inclusion in Brink.

The whole point of a control system in a videogame is to be as transparent as possible. If there’s a system which a whole bunch of people want and it’s not ludicrous, put it in. Whether it already exists or not is irrelevant, whether the vanilla-fetishists like it is irrelevant, whether the people who think the B in Brink stands for Barbie like it is irrelevant.

The only relevant issues are whether the system works, whether the implementation is feasible, and whether people will use it. All three are true for the grenade thing.

Having people who play a game repeatedly smashing their face into a bad control system which could be so easily amended to cater for them too is a bad idea. Anyone who doesn’t understand this needs to sit down and think about it for a few minutes.

(DarkangelUK) #185

There’s a difference between trying new things, and having new things forced upon you. The ‘this isn’t ET’ argument is just scraping the barrel, the game quite clearly built around the ET premise which i’m sure even Stevie Wonder could see.

no, if I had to hit 2 button to maintain a crouch, I would think that was stupid. I like having 1 button to do 1 thing, which is why I like a dedicated nade button. 1 button to do one thing…cleaner, simpler, more efficient.

I’ve got no idea where this came from, 2 buttons to do it? It’s not 2 buttons for 1 action, it’s 2 buttons for 2 separate actions. Using the crouch theory, I could have Shift bound for crouch… if i hold it down i crouch, if i let go i stand up. I could also have CTRL bound for crouch toggle, press it once and i stay crouched, press again and i stand up… saves me having to hold the button down and keeps my hand free for other stuff to do while crouched. Hell i could even mix it up and create a script that allows me to change crouch type while still keeping it on shift… i want flexibility, options and control, not limitations… which for me goes completely against innovation.

Same for the nade. Maybe i want to just lob a nade without cooking, so yes an instant throw without a weapon switch would be good. But maybe i want to prime it and time it so it explodes in the air, or when it hits the ground at an enemy’s feet leaving no time to duck out of the way. Far more control options and innovation while having the option to try something new with the inclusion of the instant throw… note ‘inclusion’, cos it’s not something that’s ever been present in any previous SD games. Just because it’s a new game, doesn’t mean i don’t want the option i’m so very used to.

(H0RSE) #186

There’s a difference between trying new things, and having new things forced upon you…

But nothing is being forced on you…you can re-bind the button. I mean you buy a game, you go into the control options and it says, “this button is jump,” “this button is shoot,” this button is crouch," and if you don’t like those buttons, you can rebind them to another button. But with you guys it’s like suddenly rebinding just won’t cut it anymore…

“Rebinding? That’s so last season. We’re living in the now…We need 5 separate ways to perform every action! Variety is the spice of life…”

The only viable option I see for you guys would be a checkbox in the options that says “Do you want a dedicated nade button?”

(.Chris.) #187

Have you even read any of the replies on this thread properly or do you just imagine what people are typing after giving them a quick skim through with the prior assumption that you are right and ‘we’ are wrong while purposefully ignoring replies that prove otherwise?

(Ryan) #188

[QUOTE=H0RSE;209852]But nothing is being forced on you…you can re-bind the button. I mean you buy a game, you go into the control options and it says, “this button is jump,” “this button is shoot,” this button is crouch," and if you don’t like those buttons, you can rebind them to another button. But with you guys it’s like suddenly rebinding just won’t cut it anymore…

“Rebinding? That’s so last season. We’re living in the now…We need 5 separate ways to perform every action! Variety is the spice of life…”[/QUOTE]

It actually is a DIFFERENT action.
I don’t want to throw it immediatly when I select it, and definitly NOT on a seperate button occupied solely for throwing 1 grenade and then remains useless.

You should read back a few pages and look at all the arguments givin.
You only state: It’s a new game, so we need the “new” controls. which is bullshit imo.
I rather have old controls that satisfy me.

(H0RSE) #189

I don’t want to throw it immediatly when I select it

But why not? You would rather select it and wait for the perfect moment, with an un-primed nade in your hand, not able to shoot and an easy target?

You only state: It’s a new game, so we need the “new” controls. which is bullshit imo.

Actually I never said we “need” new controls. All I was saying is that it’s a new game, and it’s going to feature new things. It’s like SD is like, “We got this cool new feature…it’s awesome!” and you guys are like “Na, it sucks, give us the old way.” Even games with tons of sequels will implement new features in their games that fans of the older games don’t like. Like when they put ironsights in Quake Wars…I hate ****ing ironsights! But I dealt with it and still played the game. I wasn’t like, “you know there should be an option where we can disable the need for ironsights…”

And before you say, “Ironsights are a gameplay mechanic. We don’t want to disable any gameplay mechanics.” You kinda do. The dedicated nade button is setup to function a certain way. It is a mechanic that is designed to help streamline the gameplay and help with the whole “flow” of the game. You guys seem to want to circumnavigate the original goal of this feature, and just do things your own way.

(Ragoo) #190

It is not wrong if we disagree with SD about stuff…

But I think if enough people want something SD should consider doing it (: Or should I say: I believe they care enough about the community to do so :wink:

(Ryan) #191

[QUOTE=H0RSE;209914]But why not? You would rather select it and wait for the perfect moment, with an un-primed nade in your hand, not able to shoot and an easy target?
[/QUOTE]

Because I like to cook my grenade, and cooking it on a different keyboard key is interfering with movement so it would need to be on my mouse. Thus I would have to bind a key on my mouse solely to throw 1 grenade, also affecting the aim when u have to hold it down. Then when u have thrown your grenade, u are left with a perfectly useable key on your mouse, without any function. a waste that would be, cause it could be a good spot for VoIP or SMART etc…
I am just telling SD what I think would work better for the game and it’s players. If this better feature happends to be an old one that has proven its use in various older games, then so be it. This “new” feature has proven to be shitty to me already.

PS: Keyboard is used for movement (and selecting weapons, though you can also scroll).
Mouse is used for fighting and aiming.

(Rahdo) #192

Hi everybody! Thanks for the spirited discussion, it’s been really great and useful for me to read through it all. And thanks Horse for basically being a stand in for me during the discussion to get a clearer idea of what the issues are, since at first, I truly didn’t get it, but with the back and forth you guys have done, it’s finally sunk into my thick skull what the problem is :slight_smile:

(And now we interrupt this post in progress for an obligatory apology to the community)

Here’s the deal: I screwed up, and I’m sorry for it. Yes, I can totally see now the keyboard issue of limited thumb and pinky love, since not everyone has a mouse with a button 4. If I could go back in time, I would inform myself of the PC problem I’m creating with the all in one grenade button and steer the whole thing a different way.

The problem is now that the code changes that had to be done to our inventory management system to make the one-button grenade approach work means it’s unfortunately not an easy-peasy task to put in a traditional PC version in addition to the new system. Time is running short, and our gameplay programmers are stretched really tight, so I’m afraid this can’t go on their list of things to do to support both the new and the old system. Hence my sincere and profound apology. I was dumb, I missed the trick, and all I can do is say I’m sorry, lesson learned. :frowning:

HOWEVER, good news! I’ll double check tomorrow, but I believe Darkangel’s script solution from a couple of pages back is a perfectly viable way out of this sticky wicket, in that one could map a button to toggle the bound functionality of mouse 1. So you hit the button and bang, M1 is now grenade-ish. If you hit the button again, M1 goes back to rootin-tootin-shootin. Absolutely brilliant solution, and that should work fine.

So there’s our way to have our cake and eat it too. Phew, bullet dodged. I’ll also try to go one step further and see if, while we’re working on our control remapping option screen, there can be a “grenade button shift/toggle” choice that would basically activate that script, so PC players don’t have to bother with that. But it might be a case of players having to do the script themselves. Fingers crossed on that.

So, this whole episode has opened my eyes to the fact that, in spite of my best efforts, maybe I am still a bit too console-headed (tough professional habit to break, you must understand). That’s why I’m going to open the floor to discussion about it further. I’ll have to double check before I start a new thread on this topic, because to do the discussion right, I’ll need to get clearance to talk a bit about a game feature that hasn’t been revealed yet (it’s a little thing, and I’m sure it’ll be fine, but I still have to get clearance from the PR gods). Look for said thread in the next few days, were I basically lay out what our current thinking is for all the default PC keyboard/mouse control layouts, and get your guy’s feedback on it.

Thanks for all your help guys, and also for keeping this thread fairly level headed, even when it’s obvious tempers were close to starting to flare up. Good work all, we’ll get this game done yet! :slight_smile:

(Rahdo) #193

hey guys, i posted a followup to this conversation here this morning, but then realized a new grenade thread had started up, so i deleted the thread from here and reposted it over there.

(Ryan) #194

Yes, I started a seperate grenade thread, because I thought it deserved it’s own by now.
(This thread was totally going off topic)

Anyway, thanks for your reply :slight_smile:

(badman) #195

For reference, the thread discussing grenade banks is at http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20400. Please continue your discussion there.