First impression of Phantom?

[Gi.Am]

Standing still is almost 100% invisible there seems to be a predator like effect still going on but very subtile and no darkening of the background unlike sprinting. I found it easier to find a still standing Phantom by shooting in the room (knew he was around) than looking for that effect.
normal walking gives a slight darkening somewhere between the running visibility and the standing still you can see it if you look for it but in the head of the battle or not directly starring at it. it is hard to spot.

[Jojack]

[quote=“Cswic;40558”]Just to shut down any person who decides to whine about the katana and say it is OP:

Katana is slower than all other melee weapons.

Every single melee weapon requires 2+ hits to kill 110+ HP mercs even with chopper.

Combat knife and cricket bat deal 80 damage on a heavy swing. 96 with chopper.

Stiletto dealt 90 damage previously (exact same amount as the katana does now) but was nerfed to 85 this patch. 108 with chopper previously now around 102.

The katana deals 90 on a heavy swing which is 108 with chopper and 60 on a fast swing or 72 with chopper. It can not 1 shot any more mercs than any of the other weapons.

The only benefit it has over other melee weapons now in TTK or STK is that it can 1 hit 90 HP mercs without having to use chopper. So if you feel being able to 1 hit 90 HP mercs without using chopper is OP, I would like to know why you didn’t whine about the pre patch stiletto since that could 1 hit 90 HP mercs for many months too.

Since the katana is slower than all the other melee weapons it is actually worse (on paper and in most practical purposes) vs any class with 110 or more HP. Why? Because you take that extra little bit of time to get in the 2nd swing to kill the enemy and that extra time can make all the difference.

[/quote]

I haven’t seen a single person complain about the katana in this thread. Was there? Or is this a preemptive shush? You seemed to put a lot of work into that data, shame it would have gone to waste if nobody complains about the katana. Good thing you got it out there before the hordes of people came complaining about it.

[Cswic]

[quote=“Jojack;40591”][quote=“Cswic;40558”]…

[/quote]

I haven’t seen a single person complain about the katana in this thread. Was there? Or is this a preemptive shush? You seemed to put a lot of work into that data, shame it would have gone to waste if nobody complains about the katana. Good thing you got it out there before the hordes of people came complaining about it.[/quote]

There are quite a few katana complaints scattered around other phantom threads and also in the dirty bomb subreddit as well. It is also meant to educate any person who wants to come in here and say the katana is OP. I’d rather this thread be kept on track since it actually has a decent discussion going.

[Yak]

I’d like to know if he eats a Fragger nade with his armor up, does the excess damage from depleting the shield take a chunk out of his health, or does the armor absorb it all anyways?

[cornJester]

I’d like to know if he eats a Fragger nade with his armor up, does the excess damage from depleting the shield take a chunk out of his health, or does the armor absorb it all anyways?

If he takes more damage than his shield can handle it will transfer into his health. I have survived an airstrike from Skyhammer but it still hurt.

[Jojack]

I hit him with a perfectly cooked nade while he was cloaked. He survived, I got stabbed in the back by the other three Phantoms so I’m not sure how much health he had left.

[qjack]

[quote=“wackyPeach;40515”]He’s broken OP and bad for the game. He really doesn’t fit in.[/quote]absolutly.
anytime i see phantom, i think i see darth maul.

[DMaster2]

Just nerf it’s freaking clock because it’s unbearable. You literally cannot kill it while cloacked, meanwhile he charge at you and slash you to death. Really fun.

[Korbin]

steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=477129799

[Woohaa]

So I just finished playing about 2 hours worth of matches, playing phantom and playing against phantoms. I never said this about any of the classes you released but this one is pretty over powered. The chopper/katana/cloak makes this class wayyy to strong. I really love this game but with a bunch of phantoms running around 1 shotting all my teammates who can’t make out the shadow running around really made this game not fun. I’m level 15 and did spend money on a few classes and elite cases and for the first time since i started playing this game i really don’t want to play. It’s not so much the insta kills as there are classes that can do that already, but he’s just too hard to kill and then he get’s in melee range and kills you in 2 hits. Then he get’s the kek10 or crotzni which are good smgs to begin with, playing him you can tell he’s overpowered.

Possible fixes:
Less HP - With the cloak and being able to instakill anyone with 100 hp or less, once he’s within range to start meleeing you it’s almost impossible to kill him. However, when you do manage to spot him at a decent distance. A player that can dodge around is hard enough to hit without the cloak. With the cloak and the dmg reduction he can close the gap and get into melee range too easily. Less HP gives a player a chance to actually kill him.

-or-

take away the dmg reduction - the cloak, insta kill, decent primary weapons are all nice pros to begin with. The dmg reduction is just alittle too over the top. Atleast with Rhino you made him slow, the gun had to wind up. With nader the grenades don’t do as much dmg as fraggers.

-or-

the loadouts with chopper/katana comes with weaker weapons like sparks. or better yet pistol only.

[scorchingPainting]

One thing Id like to say about everyone saying that Phantom changes the game in a way they don’t like;

Why have you not mentioned this before ever? Im sure that you could have gathered this from the style of his play long before his Role Call. This is the sort of things Devs need to hear, want to hear amd can do something about. If they get the feel that half the community likes the idea of a stealthy melee class and half the community doesnt, Im sure they’d try and make him a little more like the current mercs, slightly more mainstream if you want to use that word. Sure, you might get a little hate on the Forums, but its important for the Devs to hear. The situation we have now is potentially putting a lot of active players off the game

TLDR; Please make your thoughts known to the devs, even if its an unpopular opinion.

[Harlot]

Played a bit with him, mostly against Jumbles in the Nexon community server on stream. Phantom is a case of one merc having way too much of everything. He’s fast, has 120 base HP, his cloak makes him hard to see and harder to hit AND reduces damage, and his katana swings fast. As a Fragger, I found I would often unload on him while he sprinted straight at me cloaked. He would melee me twice and kill me. There was no counter-play available to me. Kira was even worse off and I didn’t even want to try Proxy, who gets one shot by his melee. He is TOO tanky with his shield and hits too hard. Hell, I was watching them kill Rhinos close up, in an area where NOTHING else should beat Rhino that easily.

He needs the damage reduction from cloak severely reduced. Instead, it should provide a speed boost and his base speed should be cut. This would discourage cloaking and running straight at someone’s face. Force him to be more finesse based. Right now he is stupidly simple to play.

If it were up to me, Phantom wouldn’t exist though. Invisibility elements in FPS are not really on level ground. Settings, hardware, lighting, and eyesight change how easy it is for somebody to see the shimmer of the cloak, putting everybody on a different playing field.

This needs to be hotfixed immediately. I came back a week ago and was loving where DB was, after playing 125 hours in the closed beta and deciding it needed a little more work. After the few games against Phantom spam though? I think I’ll take another break until he’s sorted out.

[Jojack]

[quote=“scorchingPainting;40647”]One thing Id like to say about everyone saying that Phantom changes the game in a way they don’t like;

Why have you not mentioned this before ever? Im sure that you could have gathered this from the style of his play long before his Role Call. This is the sort of things Devs need to hear, want to hear amd can do something about. If they get the feel that half the community likes the idea of a stealthy melee class and half the community doesnt, Im sure they’d try and make him a little more like the current mercs, slightly more mainstream if you want to use that word. Sure, you might get a little hate on the Forums, but its important for the Devs to hear. The situation we have now is potentially putting a lot of active players off the game

TLDR; Please make your thoughts known to the devs, even if its an unpopular opinion.[/quote]

I don’t like to make statements like that about things I have never experienced. I never liked the idea of Phantom, but I just started playing in open beta so I wasn’t sure exactly how he effected the game.

Now that I have experienced it myself, my fears are becoming a reality. He seems like a character designed for an entirely different game, thrust into this game where he doesn’t belong. It’s still beta, I’m letting the devs know now that I really don’t like the game with the current Phantom in the game.

My fix would be to completely remove armor from the cloak. Make him a bit harder to spot while moving if you need to but the armor just doesn’t fit. It doesn’t matter if you spot him or not. By the time you deactivate his cloak by shooting him he is in your face and you are in need of a re-load. Not to mention it’s not like this is 1v1 pvp. His teammates are all around as well (most of them more Phantoms).

I don’t know if he is overpowered. He’s definitely not in a 1v1, but the element he brings to the game just doesn’t fit. He turns the dynamic of the overall feel of the game into something I’d rather not play.

I’m not here complaining or demanding the game change. I’m just saddened that this game may not actually be the game I planned on playing for years. Mercs like Phantom and Red Eye have always given me pause, but I had yet to experience them myself.

We shall see.

[watsyurdeal]

At least him give him a week to figure out his weaknesses before we go into nerfing him.

Less health I can agree on, but unless the cloak is actual cloak, and not this half invisible stuff I don’t see the point in playing him when a Medic has more hp than him and the same weapons, but more useful abilities for the team.

If anything, I think having 110 health is fair, and the cloak…take some notes from TF2 guys, their cloak worked well for Spy, even before the new damage reduction was introduced.

[Gi.Am]

Giving him less HP is in his favour, the speed buff that comes with that would make him more dangerous and harder to avoid.

As for the overall Meta I see things quite positive. Sure with too many Phantoms in a team (2+) organization goes to hell. hack’n slash everywere. But I don’t think that will stay that way for too long.
People will learn to counter him and when everyone expects him he can’t do his thing anymore (he is propably better of if he is the only phantom in a team, because of that).

However what I find positive is that he forces a team to really protect each other and the objectives. Now you gotta watch the back of your teammates. Now you have to really ensure the plant area is save (no hidden phantoms around) and likewise make sure that it is clean for defusal. More important you really have to protect those engineers and the guy that escorts the EV. Now Vassili has to really keep an eye out and his ears up. No more safely sitting in the back knowing that everything evil will come from the front.

In this way I think he shakes things up quite positively.
But as others said lets wait and see how it will play out over time.

[DMaster2]

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;40655”]At least him give him a week to figure out his weaknesses before we go into nerfing him.

Less health I can agree on, but unless the cloak is actual cloak, and not this half invisible stuff I don’t see the point in playing him when a Medic has more hp than him and the same weapons, but more useful abilities for the team.

If anything, I think having 110 health is fair, and the cloak…take some notes from TF2 guys, their cloak worked well for Spy, even before the new damage reduction was introduced.[/quote]
There are no weaknesses. Every classes have an hard time bringing him down while cloacked, while he rush at you and kill you without fail (and without possible counters). Only counter i found this far is me and at least another player having a little ghost hunt, because those annoying things like to get behind your lines. If you need to go on a group just to kill a single merc you know there is something wrong with it.

[VincentRJaeger]

First impression of seeing him, He’s both OP and UP, which I suppose is kind of expected since the players I meet him have either A: Played him during the Closed Closed Beta or B: new to playing Phantom.

No but seriously, I think he’s a pretty fair merc. Maybe -just maybe- he might be a bit too tanky, but I can’t really put it on that because I don’t have the best aim yet, so maybe the reason he takes so long for me to die is because of my aim.

Meeting 3-4 of them however, was not fun.

[watsyurdeal]

[quote=“cannyEdition;40677”]
There are no weaknesses. Every classes have an hard time bringing him down while cloacked, while he rush at you and kill you without fail (and without possible counters). Only counter i found this far is me and at least another player having a little ghost hunt, because those annoying things like to get behind your lines. If you need to go on a group just to kill a single merc you know there is something wrong with it.[/quote]

Rhino? Aura? Fragger?

Remember the free rotation for him? Yea it went by fast huh? Nobody complained about him after that, because they started to figure out how to deal with him.

While I do agree cloak should be a stealth tool and not a tanking tool, I do not think his Katana or the SMGs he has are an issue.

To me it seems evident, even in the stream, that people both don’t know how to play him, or fight him yet.

The way I see it, cloak should be superb for getting behind enemy lines unseen, and even more so for getting out. Go behind a wall, cloak, and you’ve vanished. But I do not think cloak should absorb damage, 50% damage reduction? Maybe, but beyond that no.

[DMaster2]

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;40692”][quote=“cannyEdition;40677”]
There are no weaknesses. Every classes have an hard time bringing him down while cloacked, while he rush at you and kill you without fail (and without possible counters). Only counter i found this far is me and at least another player having a little ghost hunt, because those annoying things like to get behind your lines. If you need to go on a group just to kill a single merc you know there is something wrong with it.[/quote]

Rhino? Aura? Fragger?

Remember the free rotation for him? Yea it went by fast huh? Nobody complained about him after that, because they started to figure out how to deal with him.

While I do agree cloak should be a stealth tool and not a tanking tool, I do not think his Katana or the SMGs he has are an issue.

To me it seems evident, even in the stream, that people both don’t know how to play him, or fight him yet.

The way I see it, cloak should be superb for getting behind enemy lines unseen, and even more so for getting out. Go behind a wall, cloak, and you’ve vanished. But I do not think cloak should absorb damage, 50% damage reduction? Maybe, but beyond that no.[/quote]
I didn’t complained about Rhino, nor Aura and neither Fragger. But for Phantom i will because i find it quite unfair.

[watsyurdeal]

[quote=“cannyEdition;40696”]
I didn’t complained about Rhino, nor Aura and neither Fragger. But for Phantom i will because i find it quite unfair.[/quote]

Well given what I see in this video

I definitely think the cloak absorbing damage should be changed, 50% reduction instead of a full blown second health meter. That and maybe -10 health, 110 seems plenty to me.

But I don’t think that’s the main issue just yet, I mean he just came out hours ago…figure things out first before crying op. Not trying to sound insulting but people do have a tendency to do that with new things.