Fire Support visuals/behaviour

(tokamak) #1

I really dislike the fire support in this game. It’s stealthy, sudden and lethal and players can’t really respond to it. The only way they get to respond to it is the large delay it has before the silent invisible ****storm breaks lose and kills a bunch of people.

Instead I’d like to see fire support respond faster to beacons/painters but rain down slower so that players get a better visual which allows them to respond to it better.

I mentioned it in the visual effects thread but I think it’s better to start a new discussion on this.

I propose that we make the fire support, both the drone strike as well as the artillery behave like white phosphorus (and here I paste what I already said in the other thread)

//youtu.be/qxfPCPA2d60

Now white phosphorus is nasty stuff and in real life there really isn’t anything cool or fancy about it. It’s regrettable that such a barbaric weapon is still used in a modern age.

HOWEVER

In a game it would be frigging awesome. It functions in just the right way that it makes it entertaining for players.

What I like about white phosphorus (as far as there’s anything to like about white phosphorus at all…) is that it falls very slowly and then it bounces. It leaves very clear smoke trails making it easier to see what’s going on. This seems to be ideal air-strike and artillery behaviour. It means players can respond to it better. This means that the fire support can respond faster to the designator and the bouncing stuff could turn things less predictable (and you’ll be able to hit players underneath a shelter if you aim well).

And come on, they’re mercs, they’re thugs like Blackwater and all that stuff. Of course they possess white phosphorus.

Oh and an added mechanic in white phosphorus is that it could have a damage over time effect. This means that the shells themselves don’t have to be lethal but you’ll come very close to dying from it if you don’t recover in time (IE if you weren’t already at full hp or if you were being wounded by bullets while being burned).

All in all I think a white phosphorus strike would be much more satisfying than these stealthy fire support strikes we have now. And it really can’t be that real wars have better fire works than games have.

(.Chris.) #2

Yeah lets make the airstrike even less deadly by making it so you can see it incoming and give you ample time to move out of the way.

(tokamak) #3

I’m proposing the slower fall time so that the response time can be shortened. Right now the field ops is like “hey guys, I’m putting some deadly stuff here in a minute so if you all could finish what you’re doing and move out in time, that’d be great” while it should be “BAM HELLFIRE will rain down upon you right sodding now, You can already see it falling!”

Oh and I also found a shot from a TV series in which some dude uses a white phosphorus grenade. Seems like perfect assault stuff:

(Jonny_Hex) #4

Phosphorous…interesting. Spec Ops The Line.

Improvements incoming to artillery fx and functionality.

(Nail) #5

[QUOTE=tokamak;433887]I really dislike the fire support in this game. It’s stealthy, sudden and lethal and players can’t really respond to it. The only way they get to respond to it is the large delay it has before the silent invisible ****storm breaks lose and kills a bunch of people.

Instead I’d like to see fire support respond faster to beacons/painters but rain down slower so that players get a better visual which allows them to respond to it better.

I mentioned it in the visual effects thread but I think it’s better to start a new discussion on this.

I propose that we make the fire support, both the drone strike as well as the artillery behave like white phosphorus (and here I paste what I already said in the other thread)

//youtu.be/qxfPCPA2d60

Now white phosphorus is nasty stuff and in real life there really isn’t anything cool or fancy about it. It’s regrettable that such a barbaric weapon is still used in a modern age.

HOWEVER

In a game it would be frigging awesome. It functions in just the right way that it makes it entertaining for players.

What I like about white phosphorus (as far as there’s anything to like about white phosphorus at all…) is that it falls very slowly and then it bounces. It leaves very clear smoke trails making it easier to see what’s going on. This seems to be ideal air-strike and artillery behaviour. It means players can respond to it better. This means that the fire support can respond faster to the designator and the bouncing stuff could turn things less predictable (and you’ll be able to hit players underneath a shelter if you aim well).

And come on, they’re mercs, they’re thugs like Blackwater and all that stuff. Of course they possess white phosphorus.

Oh and an added mechanic in white phosphorus is that it could have a damage over time effect. This means that the shells themselves don’t have to be lethal but you’ll come very close to dying from it if you don’t recover in time (IE if you weren’t already at full hp or if you were being wounded by bullets while being burned).

All in all I think a white phosphorus strike would be much more satisfying than these stealthy fire support strikes we have now. And it really can’t be that real wars have better fire works than games have.[/QUOTE]

you might be surprised or maybe horrified to learn that WP rounds are civilian available, their actual purpose is as a smoke generator, they just have the side effect of flaming lava on the skin. They were made to be used in the open, not downtown Palestine. Here in Canada the launchers are considered smooth-bore flare launchers and 37 mm illumination and smoke rounds are legal, if you can find them

(tokamak) #6

Yeah I like how they briefly entered in on the ethical considerations of using that stuff and then confronted you with your actions. Nasty. And not just in that scene but throughout the game you’re swinging between over the top actions and then you’re thrown back into the grim consequences of what just happened. Entirely unlike the way COD or BF glorify war.

//youtu.be/-b7TaLjdXMc

Though obviously implementing white phosphorus realistically would be undesirable gameplay wise. It’s just that the slow way in which it moves together with the bouncing effect and perhaps a near-lethal damage over time makes it more game-friendly than the fast shells we have now.

(Kl3ppy) #7

TBH I like the arty as it is right now. Sure its a bit weak on infantry but the damage on the EV is good enough. The EV isnt the fastest car on the planet so the arty doesnt need to be a rocket arty.

I like the idea of phosphorous arty nades, maybe a 3rd option for the FOPS?

(OwNLY) #8

Hey guys!
Listen, guys!
I have an idea!
What if we take like an airstrike.
An airstrike,
and set it on fire!
That would be awesome, right?

Well, white phosporus could be used in a way like the molotov works in CS:GO.
Setting an area on fire, whichs blocks the enemys way for a certain ammount of time.
But it has be balanced, or stopwatch-matches turn into a “the floor is made of lava”-game.

(tokamak) #9

Low damage but fills the entire room with bouncing incendiary sparks. Useless in wide spaces (nothing to bounce against), but highly useful in clearing out small rooms and corridors.

Well I hope there’s more to fire support than merely halting the EV.

(scre4m.) #10

[QUOTE=Shifty.;433999]TBH I like the arty as it is right now. Sure its a bit weak on infantry but the damage on the EV is good enough. The EV isnt the fastest car on the planet so the arty doesnt need to be a rocket arty.
[/QUOTE]
I aggree that arty is not that bad atm. But EV speed needs to be increased to keep maps shorter. With a faster EV you will need a more powerful arty as well

[QUOTE=OwNLY;434006]Hey guys!

Well, white phosporus could be used in a way like the molotov works in CS:GO.
Setting an area on fire, whichs blocks the enemys way for a certain ammount of time.
But it has be balanced, or stopwatch-matches turn into a “the floor is made of lava”-game.[/QUOTE]
That is actually just what I thought about as well, But this is rather easy to balance as you could just restrict the ’ lava ’ airstrike to 1 per team and 1 per 1.5 minutess or so.
But for gameplay it could bring some nice variations. With a Fops as last man standing you can just set the floor on fire and putt off the attacking team with their EV until your mates are on their way back

(Kl3ppy) #11

[QUOTE=scre4m.;434051]I aggree that arty is not that bad atm. But EV speed needs to be increased to keep maps shorter. With a faster EV you will need a more powerful arty as well
[/QUOTE]

yupp, nothing to add. When EV faster than increase damage of arty.

(tokamak) #12

:frowning: Guys you can’t seriously tare the fire support in it’s entirety based on how well it counters the EV.

(.Chris.) #13

Least they’re basing it on real experience.

(tokamak) #14

Trust me when I say that sounds delightful when you’re up to your neck into effect sizes, post-hoc tukey or pearson analysis and ancovas. It’s exactly then that my mind starts conjuring ideas for DB.

(scre4m.) #15

Thats the main target when using fire-support.

If it would be mainly to kill inf, the game would really suffer from fire support.

(Kl3ppy) #16

But thats the fastest way to disable the EV. If the main purpose of the Arty is to kill, then we need something else that can stop the EV.

(tokamak) #17

[QUOTE=scre4m.;434167]Thats the main target when using fire-support.

If it would be mainly to kill inf, the game would really suffer from fire support.[/QUOTE]

I’m not suggesting it should be made more (or less for that matter) lethal. I’m merely suggesting a few ways to change artillery so that players can respond better to it. Right now it’s sudden deaths outside of your control and it doesn’t feel right.

(Nail) #18

that’s how arty works, sudden death from above and no, you can’t control it

(ImageOmega) #19

Only reason those air strikes/white phosphorous look slow coming down is because you’re seeing it from a long distance away. If you were under it, it’d be pretty sudden. Gravity is gravity and when you’re shooting mortars, they shouldn’t float down like a feather you can dance under then walk away from.

(Nail) #20

arty is not for area denial, it’s for area destruction, arty kills, it doesn’t warn you