Feedback on Competitive Matchmaking, EV Escorts, and Healing Stations


(HouTexjr) #1

-----[center]PART ONE[/center]-----

I’ve recently picked up Dirty Bomb as it went into open Beta on Steam, and I’ve logged myself a few hours and quite a few games in it. Overall, the quality and enjoyment from the game exceeds the normal standards set today by most games in what usually seems to be a never ending Beta, but there are a few things I would like to point out that I feel can be improved on in order to help Dirty Bomb move from that Beta stage into a full release, well polished game.

 First, I'm posting this in the General Discussion board because I couldn't find a General Feedback board that wasn't restricted to certain topics. I feel that if a General Feedback board was made than feedback could be separated from other discussions and would receive more attention if it happens to not fall under a specific category. Now on to my points.


Competitive Matchmaking

  1. Accept/Decline Times - Few things are more frustrating to someone looking for a competitive match than having to wait for a match to be found, then wait an extra minute, only to have the last person not accept and have to start the process all over again. The problem? The time given to each player so that they can either hit accept/decline is way too long. A minute is more time than the average queue to find the match in the first place. This leads to spending more time in queue waiting for the one last guy to get back and hit accept than you actually spend looking for a match. This also creates an inviting environment for people to purposely wait until the last minute to hit decline, or even hit accept, only to leave once they get into lobby (I will discuss this problem further in my post). The Solution? In order to create a smooth, faster paced matchmaking environment, I feel it would be beneficial to lower the accept/decline times to about 15/20 seconds. This gives the player enough time to tab back in if they are currently not in-game, or enough time for them to run back to their computer if they are away from it at the time. If it’s not enough time for a person, then they should be removed from the queue until they are ready to search again, and the other player who did accept should be put back into the queue as they are in the current build. Anyone who is removed from queue will be able to find a match quickly by queuing again because the queue times are not an issue at all. This will in turn create a smoother, quicker matchmaking system where players who were ready and waiting for their match do not have to wait a minute for someone who isn’t even going to accept, and may even improve the general attitude of players as they enter their lobbies.
  2. Players Leaving in Lobby - After my first handful of competitive games in Dirty Bomb, I began to notice a huge problem; leavers. And not just people who rage quit or have to go because a match is taking too long, but people who leave right as the lobby is formed, almost as if that was their intention in the first place. Currently the system in place treats them as a disconnect I assume, and gives them the time to join back in after the game starts, and if they don’t join in quick enough, it says they have abandoned, and allows everyone else to leave penalty free. The Problem? The fact that it even starts the game in the first place if not all players are present in the lobby is asking for an unpleasant environment. Even if the player manages to reconnect, the rest of their team is forced to play down a player for the first few minutes of the game, which are in my opinion some of the most crucial minutes. This causes the general feeling of the team to go down, and can lead to other members of the team leaving or giving up, and usually ends in a waste of time unless you’re able to scrap some Exp. by waiting it out. Most of the time, the player that left in the lobby doesn’t even reconnect, forcing their team to play at a constant disadvantage, which in a team coordination based game has a huge impact on the outcome of the match. The Solution? Even though the match is nullified if someone leaves, there’s no reason to force a team to play out a whole match when they’re most likely going to lose. If not all players are present at the end of the lobby timer, than the match should be canceled, and players present in the lobby should be put back into queue, while players not present in the lobby should be removed from queue. Because finding a match does not take long, and if the new accept timer system I recommended is implemented in some fashion it would make it take even less time, the time it would take to get into a new lobby, with hopefully everyone present, is not as long as it would take to wait in hopes for a player to rejoin. This way offers the quickest possibility of all players to be able to experience a full 5v5 match, from start to end.
  3. No Surrender Option - I could be mistaken on this one, maybe I didn’t search hard enough, but I was unable to find a surrender option in Dirty Bomb during a competitive match. The Problem? Sometimes, players leave in the middle of a match, which nullifies the option I suggested in my previous point but causes the same problem. An unfair, and usually not fun match ensues and players are forced to wait it out if they want to claim their hard earned experience and credits. The Solution? Give players an option to vote for a surrender if someone on their team has left long enough to be considered to have “abandoned” their team. The match can then end, giving all players experience and credits they have earned up to that point. This prevents the possible outcome of forcing a team to sit and wait for the match to end as the opposing team farms kills and objectives from them, and the possible outcome of the entire team eventually disconnecting, leaving the opposing team forced to wait out the timer in some circumstances this can be avoided by causing the match to automatically end if all players on a team disconnect.

EV Escorts

  1. Kira Laser/Not Being Able to Repair on the Move - I’m sure many players feel my pain as I type out this “problem”. When playing a map with an EV escort, there is nothing worse than sitting there and repairing the EV, only to have the entire enemy team switch to Kira when it’s fully repaired and bombard it with lasers, instantly killing it… The Problem? It’s just a simple balance issue in my opinion. Not with Kira, but with the EV escort objective. Her ability is simply too good of a counter for this particular objective. The Solution? I feel that because Kira offers such a hard counter to the EV, with honestly no negative effects as you can also kill the entire enemy team as they try to escort it with the laser, that the EV should have increased protection to the laser, or diminishing returns on damage as the laser sits on it, or as multiple lasers hit it. This will force players to come up with strategies other than laser stacking that focus more on the team play mechanics that Dirty Bomb offers so well. Another solution for this problem, and I think a solution for the objective in general, is to allow players to repair the EV even if it’s not fully destroyed. I find that this is balanced, as it forces to players to be completely exposed and defenseless and susceptible to enemy attacks, but it offers another option to the attacking team instead of just “stand guard around the moving vehicle”. Of course this could be even further balanced by reducing the repair rate of the moving EV, but that can be determined by implementation and feedback in the game itself.

(HouTexjr) #2

-----[center]PART TWO[/center]-----

[left]
Healing Stations

  1. They Are a Ridiculous Buff in Firefights - What I mean by this is that the health regen offered by a healing station while you are in combat with someone is ridiculous, and is equivalent to having a pocket medic in Team Fortress 2, which I feel is not the desired objective of Aura’s healing style. The Problem? I feel as if the healing station should be used more as a fall back point where injured party members can go to heal up quickly and go back to attacking/defending the objective, not as a way for any loadout to become an unstoppable healing tank as they are fighting. The amount that is healed when out of combat is fine, but it’s ridiculous when being shot at. It almost surpasses the DPS of some weapons, causes the person you’re fighting to be invulnerable unless you’re able to sustain headshots or land every hit. The Solution? Putting the “get good scrub” argument aside in which people will say that you should just be able to DPS through the heal by methods mentioned above, I suggest putting diminishing returns on the healing if you’re constantly under its effects, or by adding a delay to the healing after taking damage; maybe a 1 second delay. This way, the station can be used as a fall back point like I mentioned above, and can still be useful, but not overpowered, if you’re being rushed by the enemy.
  2. Exp. Farming - Yes, I’m calling this out. I’m not even going to list a “Problem? Solution?” format for this one. Although it’s a minor amount of Exp, one should not be able to throw down and pick up their healing station constantly and receive experience points for doing virtually nothing. Possibly add a slight buff to the experience gained from healing teammates so that moving your station up with them is encouraged, but please remove this experience gain feature so that a farming behavior is not encouraged in the game on one of the most important classes for a team!

These are all of the points I’ve come up with so far, and I would appreciate feedback and responses from members of the community and development staff so we can generate more useful discussion for the movement of Dirty Bomb into a full release well-polished game! Thank you for your time and attention.[/left]


(kittz0r) #3

To Part 2:

healing Station can be destroyed…

who cares about xp farming? i do that too if the oppo team is leaving early…


(Gi.Am) #4

Ok lets see.

  1. 15-20 sec is pretty short to react if you are tabbed out not glued to the PC. especially if the match searching takes a bit longer. Furthermore right now (atleast on my computer) DB’s sound is cut out if you minimize the game so you don’t even get a notification that it found a match (should be fixed imo).

  2. Last patch propably fixed that (patchnotes said something about not being able to leave a match once you accepted)

  3. Please no, surrender votes are the worst thing that ever happend to competive games. I really don’t want another game where I have to decline a surrender vote every minute just because someone feels like its a lost game (or their K/D is not to their liking). If you surrender you will never have one of those epic comback moments, besides you really do learn alot playing those lost games through to the end.

  4. The problem you describe is class spamming and has nothing to do with kira in itself. The Laser is the weakest of the Firesupport abilities to take out the EV with. And the Kira classpam will become alot better as soon as kira is out of free rotation (then its back to skyhammer spam).

Being able to repair the EV on the go would be a huge buff for the attackers side and would render any damage to the EV except Skyhammer Airstrike pointless.

  1. I wrote this so often now. Short version healingstation is not OP and you can kill that healingstation easily. Both with AOE damage and gunfire so stop focusing the people on the station and shot the station instead.

  2. EXP farming uhm never seen anyone doing this and I don’t see the point. Healing just one person in the same time will give you alot more XP. Pretty much doing anything else will give you more XP then reclaiming and deploying the healingstation. Besides every deployable can be reclaimed the Healingstation wouldn’t even be the most effective one for that.

Anyhow I’m pretty sure someone doing that would still be on the last spot in his team and get alot of grief from his own team aswell (and propably a vote kick) since they would be fighting a 4-5 match.


(HouTexjr) #5

[left]

  1. 15-20 sec is pretty short to react if you are tabbed out not glued to the PC. especially if the match searching takes a bit longer. Furthermore right now (atleast on my computer) DB’s sound is cut out if you minimize the game so you don’t even get a notification that it found a match (should be fixed imo).

While I understand that some people may not be able to tab back in in this amount of time, those people shouldn’t be tabbed out in the first place. You should be waiting and expecting a queue pop so that the searching system can go faster. Possibly a little bit longer would be ok, maybe 30 seconds? I just feel that a minute is unnecessary. Also, I still receive a notification sound when tabbed out from DB if a competitive match is found. Possibly it’s a problem with your sound driver? But yea the game should offer an option to play sounds while minimized I agree.

Last patch propably fixed that (patchnotes said something about not being able to leave a match once you accepted)

Ah ok good! Problem solved!

Please no, surrender votes are the worst thing that ever happend to competive games.

I know what you’re saying, and I agree. I hate surrender votes, but the idea of implementing a surrender vote in competitive would be similar to CS:GO’s surrender system. You can only call a vote once someone abandons the match, and there could possibly be a cooldown on the vote if not enough players vote yes. It’s just a way to end a game where one team is down members so they can receive exp and credits without having to wait out the match.

Everything else you said I agree with after playing more. There aren’t really any balance issues in the game, it all just depends on team play and loadout selection.

If I’m not mistaken about it, isn’t there a short invulnerability time after a player receives a revive where they cannot take damage? How do you feel about that? I also think it takes too many bullets from most weapons to finish a guy off that you just killed, resulting in a lot of medic revive spam, and with the invuln thing I just stated it leads to some quite ridiculous gameplay.[/left]


(MacBoy) #6

I’m here to complain about people leaving the pre game lobby before a game starts. Make is so where they can’t leave or just copy from CSGO where the “pre game” lobby is ingame… It’s ridiculous how I’ve had 2 games so far where my teammates have left… Fix it please!


(Ardez1) #7

@unconventionalSerpent
I have merged your thread into an already existing discussion that is directly related to your complaint. Please try and use the search function to prevent duplicate threads.

Sorry for the interruption, carry on. :slight_smile:

Thanks!


(triteTongs) #8

If someone leaves the match, the game will be safe to leave after X amount of minutes.
You don’t have to play the match, or try to ‘surrender’ or anything. The match wont count and you can just leave. There’s no need to have a surrender button

If not all players connect into the lobby, the game will be thrown out and you can try again.


(watsyurdeal) #9

I would say allowing people to repair the EV to negate the damage dealt to it recently is fair. This way you can deal with team running multiple Kiras, Skyhammers, etc.

The thing is it’s fine in 5v5, but in 7v7, 8v8, etc, it gets out of control.


(Ghosthree3) #10

Then you’d never get it down without airstrike…


(Gi.Am) #11

First of tnx for the sound infos I might look into that. If there is a notification I would agree something in the 30-40 would be sufficent. Surrender only on 4v5 and worse sounds not that bad either.

Ok since you asked me. My opinion on revive shields, finishing, and revivetrains. A fair warning most people on this forum 100% agree with your opinion. I don’t.

I agree that revive trains are annoying and can be pretty ridiculous. However in my opinion making finishing easier is going in the wrong direction.
Because finishing is very easy in this game most people can’t be revived. Infact if a merc dies only a couple of meters away from a medic it might be too far away to revive. Just respawned and seeing several revivable people on the field? forget it you will never reach them in time.
Making gibbing easier, would only shorten the distance a medic can stay away from his fellow teammates. Effectively increasing the need for a medic to become a babysitter for a single Merc (usually an Assault) and also increasing the occurence of revive trains. Ofcourse you can make gibbing so easy that reviving becomes obsolete (then take it out buff the healing to compensate and complain about OP healing).

My prefered sollution would look a whole lot different. First make finishing harder by only allowing headshots / melee / explosions to finish. This would often times mean that you have to get close or atleast switch up position and to aim carefully to finish (vassili also gets a higher motivation for landing those gibshots since he might not be able to finish someone after a bodyshot, on the other hand it would lead to classical wounded soldier bait situations.)
This not only takes time but also means finishing might not always be feasibly. This would increase the amount and time of revivable players across the map. Making it interesting for a medic to go all over the map to revive people instead of babysitting Rhinos Ass 24/7 making them UBER strong Assaults lets say more aproachable :wink: .

Ok now that I have people sufficiently angree :smile: let’s see about part two of my solution.
Because as it stands, even with harder finishing and medics more spread out, revive trains are still possible.
To fix that for good we gate the amount of revives. Every merc gets lets say 30-60 sec (or more that would be subject to testing) cooldown on revives. You can be revived once and the cooldown starts ticking. If you die again while its ticking you have to take the respawn and the cooldown gets reset. If you survive long enough you can be revived again.
This would also balance the revive shield perfectly because people would use it more for its intended purpose of getting in cover and regroup, you would die instantly if you stay where you are and this time no revive.

Revivetrain fixed, Reviveshield fixed without touching it and medics still useful.


(triteTongs) #12

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;26106”]I would say allowing people to repair the EV to negate the damage dealt to it recently is fair. This way you can deal with team running multiple Kiras, Skyhammers, etc.

The thing is it’s fine in 5v5, but in 7v7, 8v8, etc, it gets out of control.[/quote]

If you have a team of 8 doing what needs to be done, it’ll be fine. But most of the time it’s only one person repairing and they are never an engineer. That’s not the games fault, that’s the team’s fault. Every time I go engi in an 8v8, we push just fine. EV goes down? It’s back up in 5 seconds.


(HouTexjr) #13

[quote=“triteTongs;26102”]If someone leaves the match, the game will be safe to leave after X amount of minutes.
You don’t have to play the match, or try to ‘surrender’ or anything. The match wont count and you can just leave. There’s no need to have a surrender button

If not all players connect into the lobby, the game will be thrown out and you can try again.[/quote]

But you do realize that if someone leaves 15 minutes into the game, forcing you to play at a disadvantage, you either have to wait out an unfair game to get the experience that you just earned over the last 15 minutes, or leave and not get any at all. A surrender option would give teams with people who leave a chance to get experience and credits from their game without having to wait out an inevitable loss. Also, matches in which people left and I stayed counted into my ranking, so I don’t think saying “the match won’t count” works.

There is still the problem where if everyone on a team leaves, the match doesn’t end, forcing the opposing team to, like I have been saying, either wait it out to get their experience and credits, or leave and lose it, which isn’t fair.

The problem isn’t with not all players connecting to the lobby, the problem is that there’s a “leave game” button in the lobby and in a lot of cases people just leave once they connected, forcing a 4v5 or worse from the start of the game. In my opinion, if not all members are present (i.e. someone left the lobby after connecting) by the time the actually game starts, then the match should be canceled and everyone should be thrown back into queue.

To Gi.Am,
That’s actually a really good solution, thanks for that perspective. I like the idea of a cooldown on the revive for each merc. I think it encourages safer play, and like you said supports the idea of using the revive shield to fallback and recover instead of as a meatshield to continue shooting. Hopefully this gets attention.