[Feedback] I gave it a fair chance this time.


(Hundopercent) #1

I played every map multiple times, cycled through some classes, and put in a few hours. I left an open mind this time so it would be fair.

Maps - Many modifications to maps some good some bad. Overall you have the same problems. Defense is spawning on the objective, with elevated advantage. Ultimately, it ends up being a battle of attrition into a stalemate for 8+ minutes. This is the same issue you had in Brink (if you can recall the Brink tournament where most teams did not even finish the maps because of stalemates.)

I mentioned it before, and I will again. The objectives need to be elevated with the defense spawning below it not on top of it. This gives the offense the opportunity to take out the defense, secure the objective, and then allow the defense to rally and take out the offense and diffuse the objective.

In general, the maps feel tight and confined however I am getting hit from multiple directions. It’s not as bad as it used to be, but it still feels like there are too many angles you can get hit from.

Gunplay - I’m not sure where to begin. People are complaining to TTK is too low others it’s too high. Honestly, I don’t care if it’s higher or lower. What I do care about is that if I land 3 headshots with an automatic the target needs to go down. Using Arty I was landing 2 headshots with a semi auto and targets were still alive with 20% ish HP. Pyro I was landing 4 headshots, thunder 5 or so headshots. Thunder was the only Merc that I felt the gun fired well and my bullets were landing where I was aiming.

Horizontal recoil is too high. Firing felt sporadic, unreliable, and it does feel that RNG plays a factor. I for me, that isn’t enjoyable in an FPS.

Spam - It is excessive… air strikes, artilitary strikes, cooked nades, flame nades, grenade launcher. Getting to where I needed to go with full HP is impossible. This system worked in RtCW because the maps were open. But nader can just sit back on an ammo depot and launch a volley of grenades down and alley completely shutting it down. Fragger cooks and tosses, I was getting double and triple kills constantly.

Ultimately, the game feels like a mess. The more and more I played the more and more I noticed things that should be changed instead of things that I enjoy. In the games current state, if you took out, Nader, Fragger, Pyro, and Vasseli I feel it would be considerably more enjoyable. If you put the 1st objective in Train under the bridge, widened it out a little bit and closed off the top towards the defenders side it would flow so much better.

It still feels like the game is in worse condition now, than it was two years ago. Chapel has no character and has quite possibly the worst last stage in a map I’ve ever experienced in a game. Camden’s first and last and last objective do not feel as well as they did when there was an extra objective after the chopper… Dome might have potential, it’s hard to tell with all the angles. I don’t mind it but that’s because it’s blockout and I can actually see the models of players. Waterloo last objective is worse now than it was before. Especially with a competent sniper. Canary Warf’s first objective is a nightmare.

I’m rambling now with all my gripes but I just don’t see this game being very successful after launch. You really need to reevaluate your maps, cut all the excess ideas you have, and make them more basic. You’re trying to make it so complex and intricate that it is not enjoyable. Actually not even playable on objective mode because it’s constantly a shutdown on the first stage.


(xdc) #2

I agree with maps, but don’t feel mercs are complex. I don’t use skyhammer or arty because their ability is best used on objective. Guardian Angel shouldn’t be a augment, give to it all players, then buff artillery to come down quicker. Its easy to kill a arty trying to spot a place for shells, cant get shells to fire when you are getting shot at, etc

augments, and merc abilities need to be rethought rather than adjusting values, ex:
-useless augments I wont use for a main build (cool (mg), chopper, guardian angel, bomb squad)
-healing station values needs to be overpowered to be useful since the mechanics are poorly designed


(titan) #3

maps maps maps fix them and the game will come together


(xdc) #4

add more vertical height, sewers, rooftops, alternate routes, etc

If there is only ONE route to take after spawn, then the map layout needs to be redone. Some maps have this, there needs to be more options.
http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/38612695646327447/05850B21FBE25C24150A6A9EF8B8F0CAF80CE7DE/

Terminal first objective once lost the gas room its hard to take it back or get forward spawn, usually the objective is completed before the forward spawn: (how about increasing rate at which forward spawn is taken for attackers & defenders? I feel as if they are barely used)

Allow this elevator for attackers as another route?:
http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/38612695646327255/901D6A701A78B4334A0C0EAE3179A3DE623A4AD8/
http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/38612695646327359/13ACF6E7E0E0459C7DE9BE10E2AB62587C499B09/

this mg should be moved to defender side:
http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/38612695646327133/2B7E7DD0AE4EF319703507594FC422D309DD1537/
here: http://cloud-2.steamusercontent.com/ugc/38612695646327017/F9BE87772E3824B6A5AE236352B7BBCB299876C5/

MGs shouldn’t only be on the defenders side, but also for attackers defending against spawn frags, etc Almost all MGs are for defenders only, another reason why Cool MG augment is useless. Its almost like that MG plant for defenders purpose was to spawn rape attackers

Train is coming together, it has two routes at every spawn for attackers and defenders. Except last objective gives defenders a height advantage and the transfer spot is close to enemy spawn, same for last objective on chapel. Need to try a new/interesting route for both

Last objective on Chapel for defense needs more routes, all there is to do is (literally) run forward. Boring:
http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/38612695646366716/BE23F74B18427F94D9CAEEF1BEF262117BC15056/


(Kl3ppy) #5

I played a couple of hours too. There are some things which really annoy me and tbh, if those things don’t change, I wont play DB long enough.

  1. The maps are defender biased. Either you rush the maps in 5 mins or you are stuck at the first objective and the timer running out is the only good thing.
    Played some matches on Canary Wharf, Dome and Victoria. Those maps are the ones on which I had a fullhold on first objective. It is way to easy to defend the first objective. The defender spawn is too close to the objective and all advantageous positions are very easy and fast to reach for defenders. Furthermore, it is pretty easy to spawncamp attackers because attackers basically have just 1 route.
    White Chapel is a bit different. The things stated above are still valid but additional, attackers get an huge advantage at the last objective. Defenders have 1 way to get to the last objective, so spawn camping is very easy.
    All maps suffer from the same, the tube design. As long as the maps are tubes, I have no hopes for good and well balanced matches

  2. Some abilities are OP atm, especially the healing station. Either slow down the HP gained from healing station or stop healing when taking damage. Right now I experience that someone at the healing station gains HP so fast that it is almost impossible to kill him/her

  3. The merc customization is not intuitive. You have to go in the game to apply loadouts to your mercs. Change this so you can apply the loadout cards when at the merc page in the launcher.


(xdc) #6

//youtu.be/kpiXHgqCIaw

nothing to do but wait and play after a few updates


(Volcano) #7

If I hit another god damn invisible wall I’m going to lose my ****, half the fun is getting on top or over things within reason but cutting off areas that would easily be accessible gets frustrating


(BomBaKlaK) #8

Give us some real maps !
Rework objective design (Access / alternative route / Location / etc …) but it’s part of the level design.

For the moment this game suffer from the same problems Brink had, to many full hold on the 1rst obj on 90% of the maps (Trainyard / Underground 1rst obj is a real pain in the ass / Dome / Terminal ) … So maybe it’s time to do something …

ha and yes ! this !

there is no freedom at all … only some containers you can climb on sometimes … nothing really fun, movement system is not really interesting if not usefull.


(AssortedStuff) #9

[QUOTE=xdc;519091]… If there is only ONE route to take after spawn, then the map layout needs to be redone. Some maps have this, there needs to be more options.
http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/38612695646327447/05850B21FBE25C24150A6A9EF8B8F0CAF80CE7DE/
[/QUOTE]

Your comment made me think of the 3 small ideas you can see in the screenshots below.
(Just putting it out there, not for me to decide if they’re any good or not)





(prophett) #10

Great idea. Would allow the defenders to fall back to other side of wall if they choose to abandon attempt at defusing.


(AssortedStuff) #11

Fall back to other side of wall? I don’t think it would be wise that the passage would connect to the other side.
It shouldn’t be like that or the Attackers would just use it and ignore the gate.
That’s is why I mentioned that the 1st floor on that building would have to be redone if this idea was ever to be implemented.


(Glottis-3D) #12

[QUOTE=AssortedStuff;519400]Fall back to other side of wall? I don’t think it would be wise that the passage would connect to the other side.
It shouldn’t be like that or the Attackers would just use it and ignore the gate.
That’s is why I mentioned that the 1st floor on that building would have to be redone if this idea was ever to be implemented.[/QUOTE]

prophet is right. here.
fall back for defenders is exactly want this stage needs. But attackers cannot use this to their advantage.
-auto turret at spawn (kills the attackers, so they cannot get to this passage)
-Defenders spawn at Height (attackers cannot reach it)


(prophett) #13

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;519409]
-Defenders spawn at Height (attackers cannot reach it)[/QUOTE]

That’s what I was thinking. Elevated platform.


(Floris) #14

Why not have the defenders spawn behind the wall in the first place? That would only require a ramp for the defenders to jump over the wall to their old spawn. See the picture. This will probably mean defenders have a harder time setting up a defense at the start of the match, but this could be compensated by making the tunnel pump unconstructed at the start. It might also help reduce the spawn rape you sometimes get when defenders blow the tunnel pump and push out aggressively. It kinda removes the advantage for defenders to defend the forward spawn though. If additionally the lift suggested by AssortedStuff gets added, defenders get a lot of new ways to move around.


(xdc) #15

That’s what forward spawn does, they could allow us to choose spawn like ETQW (limbo menu) when there is a forward spawn

[QUOTE=AssortedStuff;519394]Your comment made me think of the 3 small ideas you can see in the screenshots below.
(Just putting it out there, not for me to decide if they’re any good or not)




[/QUOTE]

I agree with the first two, and spawning defenders at a height so attackers can’t use it

Would: give more options to spawn, and allow defenders to fallback (if forward spawn has not been taken)


(Volcano) #16

[QUOTE=AssortedStuff;519394]Your comment made me think of the 3 small ideas you can see in the screenshots below.
(Just putting it out there, not for me to decide if they’re any good or not)
[/QUOTE]

i remember doing something similar to your suggestion but using the roller door to the left of your first image, which the defenders could open but the attackers needed to hack or take a uniform to open (this didn’t make it in)

your third image can easily be done that section of the map is a open garden area that links up to the stairs heading up


(ToonBE) #17

I agree with all but the gunplay… 3 headshots from phoenix gun is kill? That is 1s. TTK cannot be faster then it is now.

For the rest some nice efforts and ideas tbh:D


(Floris) #18

The point is to give defenders more ways out of the spawn, which is also reached by having players able to select behind the spawn by choice indeed. Still, I would like to see a ramp to be able to pass through the defenders “forward” spawn from behind the wall, because right now when attackers control the forward spawn taking the existing routes becomes quite a cluster ****.