Extraction UPDATE: Version 24597 - September 27th 2013

(INF3RN0) #101

I’ve been feeling a very big improvement with the soldier balance this patch. I’m not sure if there were actual weapon tweaks or what, but I was successfully dueling soldiers in today’s drafts as a medic with a much less noticeable penalty. The reduction in body shot damage and the increase in headshot damage was the game changer I think. The medic SMG is still a very difficult weapon to use well at mid-long range simply due to fall-off and spread, but soldier vs medic duels seem to have become a lot more rewarding for a medic getting headshots. There’s been a lot more times where I’m getting shot in the back and can actually turn around to kill the guy now too, which is really great. Not to mention the hit beep audio being much more clear also.

As far as performance goes I was getting around 30-50 fps on all maps until I disabled crossfire. I used to be able to run crossfire and get a fair boost in frame rate, but this patch seems to make me lose around 100 fps if I enable it. I’m hoping SLI and Crossfire support comes at some point.

(Ashog) #102

Are you serious? The soldier is basically useless firecracker now…

(BomBaKlaK) #103

Yep soldiers are now super weak. play fops it’s much better :stuck_out_tongue:

(Mustang) #104

So let me understand this, you think:

  • Soldier is a firecracker
  • Medic has a peashooter
  • TTK is too fast

If that is correct then something is badly wrong or I’m misunderstanding you.

(Ashog) #105

the first two correct.

TTK - hard to say. I think TTK is ok for medic but for fops it is quite low.

(BomBaKlaK) #106

[QUOTE=Mustang;473952]So let me understand this, you think:

  • Soldier is a firecracker
  • Medic has a peashooter
  • TTK is too fast

If that is correct then something is badly wrong or I’m misunderstanding you.[/QUOTE]

Actually TTK is better except with Soldier and medic who got the peashooter, and fops / Proxy who got the OP weapons more due to the Rate and range of fire (falloff).

(Rex) #107

I think nothing changed for TTK, still too short.

(Mustang) #108

I don’t get this.

In my mind it’s always one of these 3 situations:

  • Weak guns = Slow TTK
  • Strong guns = Fast TTK
  • Alright guns = Alright TTK

How can it be the case that we have:

  • Weak guns = Fast TTK?
(1-800-NOTHING) #109

high RoF, Mustang?
and i wouldn’t necessarily say the guns are all universally weak or strong - in previous builds the difference between the weakest and strongest pistols were 5HSK vs 2HSK, iirc…

edit: oh wait, i didn’t read the whole discussion there… ugh, nvm.

(Rex) #110

[QUOTE=Mustang;473957]I don’t get this.

In my mind it’s always one of these 3 situations:

  • Weak guns = Slow TTK
  • Strong guns = Fast TTK
  • Alright guns = Alright TTK

How can it be the case that we have:

  • Weak guns = Fast TTK?[/QUOTE]

I haven’t said the guns are weak.^^

(Ashog) #111

It all depends on which character shoots whom now.

(INF3RN0) #112

I think people judge guns and characters as being weak when they just aren’t able to use them well compared to other weapons. And then the opposite goes for when they are killed by someone they think has worse aim or is a worse player in general, though that’s just typical clash of the egos stuff. Shotguns are probably the most warranted to complain about. Overall I think the weapons simply suffer from imbalanced learning curves, where some are much easier to use and more dependable at any skill level than others. TTK is better imo, but is of course faster for headshots now.

Medic SMG is great at close range if you get headshots. It’s probably the hardest weapon to use overall in terms of how consistent you need to be with your aim.

FOPS guns are great at all ranges body or headshots. They are some of the easiest and most dependable guns to use in all situations.

Soldier guns now requires more consistent headshots. They are easy to use if your opponents can’t land headshots and at close ranges, otherwise I think iron sighting may be very necessary now (on fragger at least). I expect it will still be as powerful if someone can always land headshots.

Shotguns are very easy to use if your close enough. I just don’t think the current shotgun mechanics belong in this type of game. It forces such limited play style and I’d rather see a more intuitive shotgun instead.

(Ashog) #113

Thanks for stating the obvious things again and again. We couldn’t figure those pesky weapons out until you explained them.

The soldier weapon has crazy spread w/o IS on mid range. I refuse to use IS at that range categorically. And w/o IS landing headshots with it is pure luck or just random, even if you know how to compensate for recoil.

Clash of the egos or not, it is for some reason you who constantly raises the question of whether people posting here are incapable of handling weapons (or basically noobs in other words because that’s what you are trying to say), which is at least unpolite.

So now who has an megaego here?

(BomBaKlaK) #114

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Ashog again.

(INF3RN0) #115

If I am getting plenty of kills with a weapon and know I am not playing anywhere near perfect, while another person keeps saying how crap it is… well then I just look at all the players I know are much better than myself and scratch my head. I’d rather hear “this weapon is too hard to use” than “this weapon is imba crap”. People overestimate their ability and actual performance way too much and I really don’t get it. If a weapon is simply overpowered all the time for all players, then that’s an issue. I’m simply more interested in balance at a fundamental level than appeasing every players frustrations.

The bigger problem is that some weapons are just easier to use than others. It doesn’t mean that they are OP or crap, but instead those easy weapons could use a steeper learning curve instead. I want all weapons to feel equally difficult to use, but just in their own ways.

(attack) #116

[QUOTE=INF3RN0;473964]
Shotguns are very easy to use if your close enough. I just don’t think the current shotgun mechanics belong in this type of game. It forces such limited play style and I’d rather see a more intuitive shotgun instead.[/QUOTE]
the shotgun isnt bad ,today a other team has run a mine engi in the train on camden worked well.

(INF3RN0) #117

I’m referring strictly to how the shotgun functions. It’s basically worthless unless you get close enough. It’s harder to knife someone and takes longer to kill too than it does with a shotgun. I just would rather have a more aim based weapon that could be used at more varied ranges if that makes sense.

(Ashog) #118

Perhaps, but soldier’s MG is simply not intended to be on par with medic’s SMG. You are not supposed to win the fight with a soldier 1x1 if both of you are doing headshots! (especially since soldier has more hp), you have to use different tactics and better movement against soldier. MG has to be more powerful than SMG by default. So why are you wanting to level the uncomparable weapons down? Do you want only cosmetic differences between the characters?

(attack) #119

well as shotguns are in games always unrealistic unaccurate.(olympics they shoot on around 100 meters meter on clay pigeon).simply increase the overall acc wouldnt be that bad

(INF3RN0) #120

Conker MG is a better design than Fragger. Fragger’s MG is basically a weapon design for people who don’t want to hit headshots really, unless they ironsight. With Conker’s MG you have to master the recoil kick to get headshots, where as Fragger’s MG is more or less a spray and pray type. I think decreasing Fragger’s spread and further decreasing his damage would be necessary for players who wanted to shoot at the head at such a high RPM and with such huge ammo clips. That or simply give Fragger’s MG some significant recoil. Still a soldier getting headshots will outkill a medic anyway, but a soldier just hitting the body isn’t going to always beat a medic that can aim at the head. The weapons involve completely different challenges in their use, but with reduced body damage the soldier MG actually requires more effort to use well. That’s good right?