Explosives and their Over use

(Mufftopolopolis) #1

Look, we all love things that go boom, but having characters that can shit out explosives as needed is just blatantly overpowered. They’re not fun to fight against and they’ve got no counter except to run away. Characters like the fragger have a 1 shot kill frag, which is fine but its radius is too high and the nader’s launcher is crazy overpowered, at least with the fragger its a 1 and done deal for a while, with the nader you’ve got six shots you can just spam randomly and rain hell onto people without them being able to defend themselves properly. They’re obviously the most powerful things in the game and definitely need to be pulled back.

(Mufftopolopolis) #2

Ways i suggest going about balancing this is by swapping the 6 chambered grenade launcher for the Nader to the M320 style single shot. You can increase the damage of each shot but making it one shot then a reload then another shot and so on would balance it out and make so that it requires more skill on the part of the person using it to get the kill.

The fragger can keep the damage but the fact that it’s impact and that its radius is like 3 feet means its basically impossible to dodge and almost a guaranteed kill, again not much actual skill required. Lower the blast radius or make it so its not an impact grenade even if it hits a player.

(Mr-Penguin) #3

Well, the devs probably aren’t gonna completely change any of the explosive abilities, but Nader might get a rebalance. Maybe. Just maybe…

(Mufftopolopolis) #4

ALL of the explosives need a rebalance. I love this game but if you get a group of naders or fraggers on the enemy team it’s just simply not fun to play

(Szakalot) #5

You probably play on 8v8 servers too much. Try playing on 6v6 , or 5v5 competitive; spam is much more bearable there.

Regardless, Nader has 5 grenades max, not 6.

(Fate_6) #6

In 5v5 these characters are one-ofs since you need at least one engineer and one medic if not 2

(KangaJoo) #7

Most teams have one fragger, they would have more but tournaments usually limit teams to 1 fragger at most, 1 or 2 assaults, 1 engi (usually bushwhacker these days), and 1 or two medics. In other words, most teams will use 2-3 mercs that have access to explosives so it is still very much an annoyance in competitive games. Just play against bungabunga and see how fun it is when most of your deaths are from prenades.

In my opinion explosives that can OHK should have a long timer and no ability to be cooked. Explosives that you can spam and have a short timer are OK as long as the blast radius is small and they don’t instagib.

(binderr) #8

[left]

I’ve been playing this game for a while now (130hrs+) I can definitely say this game is loosing its skill and people are just spamming explosives for kills and win. Devs should put more incentive so people use the weapons for kills and make explosive a second option for damage and not primary.

People who play Nader and Fraggar will always defend it but they know its OP. I can only hope devs are seeing what it happening in-game and consider the right change for these mercs![/left]

(Szakalot) #9

I’ve been playing this game for a while now (130hrs+) I can definitely say this game is loosing its skill and people are just spamming explosives for kills and win. Devs should put more incentive so people use the weapons for kills and make explosive a second option for damage and not primary.

People who play Nader and Fraggar will always defend it but they know its OP. I can only hope devs are seeing what it happening in-game and consider the right change for these mercs![/left]
[/quote]

nader is pretty weak at high levels…

Fragger is strong def. agree there

Still, vassili is most OP in high level play anyways.

(neverplayseriou) #10

Yes, basically every lvl 15/20+ I’ve met with a nader makes an average of 3/5 kills with the actual gun that comes with the class, most of these people really cannot do anything without the grenade launcher.

It’s highly annoying since 1 grenade hits me to around 34 hp (vasilli) which gives you no other option but to run since I can expect multiple grenades to follow. (Not to forget to mention the highly annoying pre naders)

Another gun that I also find way to op is the ‘revive’ gun which is used more for sniping than for reviving…

(binderr) #11

[left][quote=“sensitiveJellyfish;70098”]Yes, basically every lvl 15/20+ I’ve met with a nader makes an average of 3/5 kills with the actual gun that comes with the class, most of these people really cannot do anything without the grenade launcher.

It’s highly annoying since 1 grenade hits me to around 34 hp (vasilli) which gives you no other option but to run since I can expect multiple grenades to follow. (Not to forget to mention the highly annoying pre naders)

Another gun that I also find way to op is the ‘revive’ gun which is used more for sniping than for reviving…[/quote]

yes, i forgot to mention vassili!

I guess its not the explosive weapons but really the damage, if they just tone it down than it would be more skill based that just spam as it is right now.
[/left]

(Gi.Am) #12

[quote=“sensitiveJellyfish;70098”]Yes, basically every lvl 15/20+ I’ve met with a nader makes an average of 3/5 kills with the actual gun that comes with the class, most of these people really cannot do anything without the grenade launcher.

It’s highly annoying since 1 grenade hits me to around 34 hp (vasilli) which gives you no other option but to run since I can expect multiple grenades to follow. (Not to forget to mention the highly annoying pre naders)

Another gun that I also find way to op is the ‘revive’ gun which is used more for sniping than for reviving…[/quote]

I’m shocked Nader uses her ability to win fights?

Look Nader is an assault, she has to do roughly the same job as Fragger and Rhino, killing and dealing damage is what she has to excel at.
Yet she only has the HP of the firesupport guys (used to be the engineers), and primary weapons fitted for medics/engineers (and Phantom but thats propably part of his problem), the point is she needs her ability to offset that.

The thing is good Naders don’t spam outside of very specific use cases (structure destruction) because it’s pointless. You either kill people/deployables with 2/3 Nades or they are long gone.
If you have to deal with a squishy you go for the direct hit. It takes skill, abit of luck, but the reward is you don’t have to fight them, high risk, high reward - worth a shot usually.

While the cooldown might seem low, they do come at a premium, simply because Nader has to relay on them in most encounters.

@jokingBinder its actually the other way round if the Nades (or sniper) dealt less damage they had to spam more. since it would take more Nades to kill someone. If you want to have more skill for Nader you’d bump up the damage, reduce the nades, reduce the AOE.

But I’m not suggesting that, IMO Nader is fine as she is right now. She is a bit more situational than Fragger, but can work in some Comp situations. And replaces, straight up in your face combat dominance, with better area control (compaired to the other assaults).

(ttownjoe) #13

FF ON server fixes all these problems

(refit) #14

Recently on Chapel I have seen Naders spam the final objective from the doorway to the plaza.

(K1X455) #15

Proxy needs the extra “Bigger Blast” augment rather than Pineapple Juggler

(Sterling) #16

If you’re having problems with explosives, it’s your fault. Explosives won’t be tweaked to tickle your character, because explosives are meant to hurt. Yes, mercenary stacking is a problem, but that doesn’t make the mercenary itself too powerful.

People stomp my Nader on high level servers, and good Fraggers shouldn’t be punished because you can’t deal with explosives.

(Riftmaster) #17

I recently picked up nader and have been playing it a lot.
I’ve found that unless I launch grenades the right way, people can easily avoid them…they’re really good if people try to hole up in a room and defend it, or for holding chokepoints briefly, but out in the open they are more of a brief area denial than anything.
Occasionally I get lucky/skilled enough to hit a player directly and kill them in one shot, but it usually takes several…and then I’m on less than half a clip.

Frankly I’ve been killing more with the SMG I have on the loadout I’m using.

(watsyurdeal) #18

Honestly, I feel like explosives are the only thing that should gib, because it makes sense.

But then all the explosives like the Sticky Nades and Grenade Launcher would need to be changed a lot for balancing.

(Amerika) #19

Explosives did gib in older builds. Pretty much all of them would easily gib and you’d only not be gibbed if you were on the outer part of the aoe area. However, due to the debacle with Fragger nades and the power that instant gibbing provided in a competitive environment made the game pretty much rely on explosives. Fragger nades have been severely nerfed over time and I think it has definitely influenced all the new mercs with explosive abilities that have came out afterwards.

I like the current state of explosives personally. I wouldn’t even mind seeing gibs get removed entirely outside of a couple of things (air strikes mainly) but with gibs still being in the game it can be used for ability balancing so I can see why SD wouldn’t want to remove it entirely from the meta.