execution, a fight of infinite resources

(Protekt1) #1

I think execution could be tweaked heavily into a more interesting game mode. For example, I don’t think cooldowns on abilities really serve this mode well. For example, in limited resource mode you might blind toss a grenade towards a commonly traveled path. It is a risk that can pay off big if it manages to score a kill. But then you have 1 less grenade for other uses, so that risk comes at a real price for that round. In a cooldown resource mode, the cost is far less and almost nothing since you get that grenade back in less than a minute anyway.

So imagine having only a single deployable, a single grenade (or two) for the round. Even a set amount of revives per round. A set amount of health packs per round (packs are still pretty high amount to be fair vs deployables). 1 use of the airstrike to aim for the biggest impact instead of just using it because the cooldown is ready.

Thoughts?

(Szakalot) #2

imagine execution with 60-90sec at start. now all the cooldowns are in fact limited resources, if a fragger decides to wait for another nade, the 17sec willbe pretty punishing

(watsyurdeal) #3

I ****ing hate execution, because there’s no risk involved. Everyone has their abilities from the get go, which leads to some guaranteed picks from the start and the way the game is played in general I feel is the exact opposite of the type of game Dirty Bomb is.

This isn’t Counter Strike, this is more like Enemy Territory, and I wish they’d drew more inspiration from that game instead of trying to compete with whatever else is on the market. Play to this game’s strengths and you’ll be successful.

(Szakalot) #4

no risk involved? a single mistake and you are dead. seems pretty risk-heavy to me

(Glottis-3D) #5

i never ever died in execution so far after it came live a mpnth ago!! not a single death in execution!!

…to be completely honest, i didnt play it at all =)

(watsyurdeal) #6

Everyone spawns with their abilites at the ready, and you have medics who can get you back up if you go down. There’s no risk, one life isn’t so much a risk as it is an unfit mechanic for a game like this.

For there to be risk, I would argue that it’d make sense if this game had some sort of an economy system like in CS GO. But instead of buying guns you hire a merc, so you have a base merc that everyone can use to start with for each one. Then you have the more expensive but more powerful mercs you can buy for that round, see, THAT is risk.

This is not a risky game mode, it’s basically death match with a life counter.

A much better game mode for this mechanic would have been Headquarters. Or Extraction, you capture a becaon, and while the beacon is held you do not spawn until the enemy destroys it. The more time you have it, the more points you get, first to get to a certain amount or had the most till the time runs out is the winner.

(Szakalot) #7

I think you never played against good players (which is impossible atm. ofc.). I had a few games with average lvl >10 and it definitely didnt feel like you can do whatever willy-nilly. People would pick of stragglers, and overextend-ees ; punishing the opponent instantly.

(watsyurdeal) #8

Regardless of who I play with, it doesn’t mean the game mode fits in with Dirty Bomb’s design. It simply doesn’t, I would have been happier with Headquarters or hell good old CTF.

(Kendle) #9

What aspect of DB’s design? If you mean Mercs / abilities etc. then I’d strongly disagree, these elements add an extra dimension to the game mode not offered by any other game that features a Search / Destroy - Bomb / Defuse game mode. The focus on an “objective guy” + Medics who’s ability to revive (and the timing and decision making thereof) really really means something, way more than in Obj where life is cheap because it’s given back every 25 seconds, indeed that’s why I’m now only playing Execution, no more Obj meat-grind for me. :slight_smile:

If you mean anything else, then everything else is inherent in the mode, in that respect any game mode could theoretically be made to work, although I don’t see CTF being too successful, DB doesn’t have the movement mechanics to really bring CTF to life.

Headquarters and some kind of area control game mode would also work well in DB IMO, but Execution works beautifully and I can see it being a bit part of the game (need loads more maps though!)

(Thundermuffin) #10

This may not be what watsyurdeal meant when he said no risk, but to me a lot of the risk should come in saving resources and post-plant situations but this is extremely absent from the current Execution mode.

We can definitely both agree on the idea that there is risk in over-extending yourself or being a straggler. You’ll definitely get picked off and, in the end, be punished for what you just incorrectly did; however, that risk doesn’t extend throughout the entirety of the game unless it is match point for one of the two sides. Currently, DB doesn’t have any way to reward (or punish) your individual or team performance between rounds. Obviously, you must note that I’m not taking momentum into account as a factor following a team between rounds due to the fact that it isn’t a consistent part of the game. Where one team would crumble, another team wouldn’t be affected by a single loss at all, and the game itself has no way to enforce momentum.

So while you can get picked off early and cost your team the current round, it has no profound impact whatsoever on the next round. You don’t spawn with less money, a half-activated ability, etc., but you spawn with a fresh, fully loaded merc ready to go. You are feeling no economic or ability-related consequences based on your previous actions. A smart player who over-extends into a bombsite alone would definitely correct this issue the next round and not do that again, but the other team isn’t rewarded for relieving a crucial kill.

As a player, you should be required to weigh your options as you play (“should we try a 2v5 retakes?”, “it’s 1v3, should I try to plant?”, etc). These options do not need to be weighed right now, because the only answer is yes. You have absolutely nothing at all to lose by attempting to defuse 2v5 or plant the bomb and hold off 3 other players. This is the exact reason that risk doesn’t feel like it is present, because those should be situations that do not scream “yes, you should do it” at all. While the argument can be made that against good players you would be killed for trying to do that, that doesn’t change the fact that there is no reason whatsoever to not try and get lucky headshots on everyone. Really, you actually are better off dying in a situation like that because you don’t have to wait for the overly long round timers to expire.

Thus, there needs to be a mechanic present that makes it worthwhile to not go into a rambo-mode and requires you to try to wait out the rest of the round to save something. As I’ve been writing, I’ve been trying to think of what would be a good way to introduce this risk. Personally, I feel like having to buy mercs or weapons in the round would not work well at all in DB and would just be broken completely; however, maybe having to buy your ability each round would be a nice middle ground as that would definitely make people want to save if they know they cannot win, but it doesn’t completely cripple your team. Clearly, classes who dispense an item (medpacks, for instance) would always be allowed to do that, but their other ability (revive/self-revive ability, to continue with the previous example) would have to be bought. Again, it would require balancing, but it at least creates a reason to save instead of trying to rambo-clutch a round.

TL;DR: Rounds are completely discrete entities, and this should be rectified somehow to create a reason to not always go rambo as the round becomes more and more unwinnable.

(watsyurdeal) #11

[QUOTE=Thundermuffin;541092]This may not be what watsyurdeal meant when he said no risk, but to me a lot of the risk should come in saving resources and post-plant situations but this is extremely absent from the current Execution mode.

We can definitely both agree on the idea that there is risk in over-extending yourself or being a straggler. You’ll definitely get picked off and, in the end, be punished for what you just incorrectly did; however, that risk doesn’t extend throughout the entirety of the game unless it is match point for one of the two sides. Currently, DB doesn’t have any way to reward (or punish) your individual or team performance between rounds. Obviously, you must note that I’m not taking momentum into account as a factor following a team between rounds due to the fact that it isn’t a consistent part of the game. Where one team would crumble, another team wouldn’t be affected by a single loss at all, and the game itself has no way to enforce momentum.

So while you can get picked off early and cost your team the current round, it has no profound impact whatsoever on the next round. You don’t spawn with less money, a half-activated ability, etc., but you spawn with a fresh, fully loaded merc ready to go. You are feeling no economic or ability-related consequences based on your previous actions. A smart player who over-extends into a bombsite alone would definitely correct this issue the next round and not do that again, but the other team isn’t rewarded for relieving a crucial kill.

As a player, you should be required to weigh your options as you play (“should we try a 2v5 retakes?”, “it’s 1v3, should I try to plant?”, etc). These options do not need to be weighed right now, because the only answer is yes. You have absolutely nothing at all to lose by attempting to defuse 2v5 or plant the bomb and hold off 3 other players. This is the exact reason that risk doesn’t feel like it is present, because those should be situations that do not scream “yes, you should do it” at all. While the argument can be made that against good players you would be killed for trying to do that, that doesn’t change the fact that there is no reason whatsoever to not try and get lucky headshots on everyone. Really, you actually are better off dying in a situation like that because you don’t have to wait for the overly long round timers to expire.

Thus, there needs to be a mechanic present that makes it worthwhile to not go into a rambo-mode and requires you to try to wait out the rest of the round to save something. As I’ve been writing, I’ve been trying to think of what would be a good way to introduce this risk. Personally, I feel like having to buy mercs or weapons in the round would not work well at all in DB and would just be broken completely; however, maybe having to buy your ability each round would be a nice middle ground as that would definitely make people want to save if they know they cannot win, but it doesn’t completely cripple your team. Clearly, classes who dispense an item (medpacks, for instance) would always be allowed to do that, but their other ability (revive/self-revive ability, to continue with the previous example) would have to be bought. Again, it would require balancing, but it at least creates a reason to save instead of trying to rambo-clutch a round.

TL;DR: Rounds are completely discrete entities, and this should be rectified somehow to create a reason to not always go rambo as the round becomes more and more unwinnable.[/QUOTE]

EXACTLY

Took the words out of my mouth, thank you

(Szakalot) #12

I see what you mean, but I don’t see that as a problem. Indeed, Execution is more TDMy than CS, but its fine: those fights are much longer and more complicated - the abilities you use and the timing you use them in come together very nicely.

Execution is all about those fights, two frontlines emerge people use their spam to push off heal, go back and forth to deal damage/regenerate.

The only thing that is missing is a reasonable timeline, cause 2min is so freaking long that objectives are secondary to getting picks. Rarely do I hear ‘60 seconds left’ without being able to clearly point out the winner.

(Thundermuffin) #13

[QUOTE=Szakalot;541095]I see what you mean, but I don’t see that as a problem. Indeed, Execution is more TDMy than CS, but its fine: those fights are much longer and more complicated - the abilities you use and the timing you use them in come together very nicely.

Execution is all about those fights, two frontlines emerge people use their spam to push off heal, go back and forth to deal damage/regenerate.

The only thing that is missing is a reasonable timeline, cause 2min is so freaking long that objectives are secondary to getting picks. Rarely do I hear ‘60 seconds left’ without being able to clearly point out the winner.[/QUOTE]

I agree wholeheartedly with the round timers being too long, but I don’t think that will fix the fact there is nothing that makes going rambo when you’re alone / at a disadvantage and losing is inevitable. You still spawn with a completely buffed and ready to go merc.

Situations like that are what I feel hurt Execution. The TDM-y feel is fine up until that point, because (when played without a team of complete randoms) it isn’t so much a TDM but more of a loose style of getting a pick and executing as a team. Once you’re into a post-plant situation or trying to get the bomb down when you’re in a 1v5 situation, whoever is at a disadvantage ends up having nothing to lose at all. That is the problem: you should always have something to lose even when the round is lost. I’m not saying make it an insurmountable obstacle, but even in SW you spawn at a disadvantage once you die (you’ve lost time, your ability is on a recharge, etc).

(Kendle) #14

Thundermuffin makes a good point, but I agree with Szakalot, although he’s right I don’t see it as a problem. DB doesn’t punish bad play in the same way as CS does, granted, but it’s also much harder to clutch in DB due to the nature of the weapons and the Mercs.

As things stand we generally get some action going on for the majority of the round, even up till the end, which makes it more engaging for the players, and I’m sure it would be much more interesting for spectators if this becomes a decent comp mode.