Exaggerating scenarios


(Carniege) #1

I’m reading the forums and I see so many people talk about how so many games are extremely unbalanced and then they bring up this clearly exaggerated number like 60% of games are them being spawn camped.

Is it just me or does that not seem right? I’m all up for balancing the teams and all of that stuff right, but don’t some people go a bit over the top on here? People saying they join games where it’s 3 against 7, well then just keep asking in chat for someone from the enemy team to swap to yours. That’s what I do and it goes something like

Can someone please swap
Can someone please swap
Can someone please fucking swap
It’s fucking 3 vs 7 can someone fucking please swa-
Thank you harry youre a good guy

And by the time that’s done, nearly always someone else joins on top of harry and the game balances itself out at least somewhat adequately. Also the games are never 15 minutes of pure 3 vs 7 to begin with. You have people leaving and joining constantly; I don’t see the point in picking up a time frame of about 2 minutes from one of the games to back up your points on the forums.

It’s clearly not true what people say about how unfair so many of the games are. YES THERE ARE UNFAIR GAMES and there are TOO MANY OF THEM, I AGREE, but saying things like 60% of all the games you play you get completely destroyed by the enemy team doesn’t sound very truthful.


(Ctrix) #2

What’s the point of this thread?
What’re you trying to achieve here?


(Xan) #3

You’ll never understand “balance” until you played 1v8 mate


(SereneFlight) #4

Stop respawning and read that book you were supposed to read 7 months ago.


(Lumi) #5

[quote=“Carniege;23034”]I’m reading the forums and I see so many people talk about how so many games are extremely unbalanced and then they bring up this clearly exaggerated number like 60% of games are them being spawn camped.

Is it just me or does that not seem right? I’m all up for balancing the teams and all of that stuff right, but don’t some people go a bit over the top on here? People saying they join games where it’s 3 against 7, well then just keep asking in chat for someone from the enemy team to swap to yours. That’s what I do and it goes something like

Can someone please swap
Can someone please swap
Can someone please fucking swap
It’s fucking 3 vs 7 can someone fucking please swa-
Thank you harry youre a good guy

And by the time that’s done, nearly always someone else joins on top of harry and the game balances itself out at least somewhat adequately. Also the games are never 15 minutes of pure 3 vs 7 to begin with. You have people leaving and joining constantly; I don’t see the point in picking up a time frame of about 2 minutes from one of the games to back up your points on the forums.

It’s clearly not true what people say about how unfair so many of the games are. YES THERE ARE UNFAIR GAMES and there are TOO MANY OF THEM, I AGREE, but saying things like 60% of all the games you play you get completely destroyed by the enemy team doesn’t sound very truthful. [/quote]

You’re right in saying that 60% is wrong number. I’d say the actual percentage of unbalanced games is higher. You’re either the crushed team in which case you notice it immediately or you’re in the crushing team, in which it takes you a moment to realise why your team is doing sooo well (“Oh look we’re 6vs3, well that explains it”). It wouldn’t surprise me if many, you included, don’t notice when you’re in the team with higher player count. Hence your scenario of repeating multiple times in chat for someone to switch.

Furthermore, even if you do succeed in getting someone’s attention and balance the game, it still doesn’t change the fact that it started unbalanced. In the end, unbalanced games, be there a lot of them or not, should just not be experienced. And by that I don’t mean they shouldn’t happen, because unfortunately it’s going to happen and there is nothing that can be done to prevent it. Nonetheless, the effects of unbalanced games should be minimized and this is where an automatic player number balancing feature should have been implemented a long time ago.

I guess that is what people complain the most about: that in it’s current state the game does nothing to prevent something that will inevitably happen and relies only on the good will of players. I mean, there is not even a small popup warning you that you’re playing in a game with unbalanced player count and that it would be appreciated that you switch.

In the end SD is only adding tiny adjustments here and there instead of tackling the problem at heart. Like the time they shifted the team joining choice for mid term joiners from before the loading to after (basically closer to the moment of joining). That doesn’t help much, it’s better, but only a minute amount. I’ve said it many times and will say it here once more. Look to Natural Selection 2’s player count imbalance solving system. That’s the way to go. And as long as SD doesn’t realize that and loses time doing something else, there will be people referring to one of the game’s current major issues. And I’m sorry to tell you this, but it’s no exaggeration. The game has three major flaws right now:
-netcode and or server performance,
-skill balancing and shuffle in general
-and finally player count imbalance. These need to be addressed in order for the game to succeed.


(Carniege) #6

@Ctrix The point of this thread is to “raise awareness” or something because there are so many people saying these ridiculous figures which are just so not true. What happens during 30 seconds of the match, for example a 6 v 3 imbalance, which goes away due to nice players switching or new players joining the match, is what people say goes on during the whole 15 minutes.

@Lumi I don’t know what server you play on or what level you are, but on EU at around level 13 games, it is definitely no where near 60% unbalanced throughout the entire match. I personally always check my score cause I’m “that guy” so I see how many people are on each team and it’s very common to be balanced + - 1 player. Also the games hardly ever start unbalanced to such extremes that I see on the forums. The lobby time is like a minute and in that time the game finds enough players to shove into the match to make it full and thus even. I don’t understand why you guys are super unlucky or something but from my point of view over 60% of these super unbalanced games is bullshit.

My scenario of repeating the phrase is to get someone so irritated that they’d swap to shut me up which works. They see my message, they just ignore it cause they’re enjoying life, until they realise I wont stop spamming.

Yes I agree there should be something like a message pop up to the team with more people but I doubt it would help.

I don’t know Natural Selection 2s balance system so I can’t comment on that.


(RyePanda) #7

The problem is, an imbalance for 30 seconds can ruin the whole game by giving 1 team enough time to complete or nearly complete an objective. Also, it seems like it usually takes longer than 30 seconds, but I could be wrong.


(Carniege) #8

@RyePanda Yeah I guess that’s true and for me it’s usually 30 sec - 1 min before someone joins/swaps/both.


(kAndyREW) #9

i agree with you, ppl tend to exaggerate… I’ve seen people on reddit claim how 90% of their games are imbalanced.

good god.


(Ctrix) #10

TBH, I feel like 60% sounds about right


(watsyurdeal) #11

What really blows my mind is how people think a shuffle or better match making will fix the problem, in my experience it simply doesn’t.

You have this basically

  • 25% of the players are damn good and know what they’re doing
  • 25% of the players aren’t amazing, but they do their jobs and can do what needs to be done with good teamwork
  • 50% of the players are clueless, never drop ammo, barely revive, barely heal, and do not understand you don’t need more than one person on an objective at any given time.
  • No shuffle vote or match making will fix that, because you’re still going to have 4 players per team who are doing all the work and the other 4 are just freaking fodder.

What we need is a mandatory tutorial and a way to practice, offline, without any problems. That is the ONLY way the pub experience will improve.


(SiegeFace) #12

I had two games the other day which were “unbalanced” on the team size, I asked in both games for someone to swap, and they did, then the enemy started raging at me for making the game unbalanced after we turned around 2 consecutive sure as all hell defeats into glorious victories.

Explain that one.


(watsyurdeal) #13

[quote=“SiegeFace;140086”]I had two games the other day which were “unbalanced” on the team size, I asked in both games for someone to swap, and they did, then the enemy started raging at me for making the game unbalanced after we turned around 2 consecutive sure as all hell defeats into glorious victories.

Explain that one.[/quote]

You were carried by someone, just exactly like how the enemy team was


(Carniege) #14

@Watsyurdeal yeah exactly lol

@SiegeFace the person who swapped was extremely good and everyone else was salty and shit


(watsyurdeal) #15

I don’t know if you’re agreeing, disagreeing, or neutral, but here’s my point

I consider myself adept at this game, which is middle of the road, not a pro player by any means but definitely not someone to underestimate.

It would not matter what team I was on because I am doing the vast majority of the damage when I play, if I am on defense I don’t have to worry about the objectives, so I can just slaughter folk all day.

On offense, I gotta creative and use Skyhammer and whatever Engineer I have to get shit done, or I just play Medic.

Either way, I’m going to be doing a lot of work, and the other team isn’t going to be happy. People flat out need to learn how to play, criticize themselves before criticizing the game or match balance. And they need to stop expecting matchmaking and shuffling to magically create a balanced games. And more so, understand what balanced games are. If the game lasts more than 10 minutes…that’s pretty balanced guys, that is NOT a stomp.


(yenku) #16

We need a good tutorial like bread.
I had the wise idea of going on youtube and try to understand what Dirty Bomb was all about.

I admit many youtuber here helped a lot with their videos.
@kAndyREW @NuclearSharkhead @PixelTwitch @Sniff and other

BUT, will always say this, people have to care about balance and swap team when needed.
Instead I see more than often, people just caring about easy win, stomps, insults. bah

Edit: I’d like the Win credits bonus to be removed, and pay 750cc the daily play.
Is 250cc more in the end, not a life changer.


(Amerika) #17

That’s the thing. A lot of people don’t want to look at themselves or even their team and instead want to blame the game. Also, for a lot of people, if you lose the game it was imbalanced because no way you lost if the game was balanced. OBJ/SW can be a complete stomp sometimes due to the nature of the game type with kills and spawn times. Some guy might get an airstrike and take out 4 people and they go on a 20+ second long spawn. This allows for a plant and ticking time then some other guy takes out the other teams only engineer the next wave and the objective blows. If this exact lucky scenario happens early in a game then the game is imbalanced. If this scenario happens late in the game then the game is balanced.

Some people who play this game drive me nuts due to their inability to think about why they lost and their predilection towards blaming others or the system. It’s just easier and takes less thought and makes those people feel better to blame a person or a system than it is to figure out why you’re so angry and also come up with potential fixes that make logical sense. We live in an angry blame filled society these days. And that’s enough social commentary from me today.

I am not saying that solutions aren’t needed or shouldn’t be brought up. Just that a lot of people want a crazy improbable solution (that is logically flawed) to problems that aren’t easily solved and can, most likely, only be made marginally better at best. Some people just want a placebo instead of either a fix or at least understanding why something can’t be fixed or is hard to fix given the context and constraints.


(watsyurdeal) #18

I’ll just add to what Amerika said, and say that people don’t wanna game anymore, they want the game to play them for saps while the publishers take their money.

They just don’t make games like they used to, unless it’s made that way, aka Doom and Dirty Bomb, and Unreal Tournament 4…drools


(Lumi) #19

@Carniege

I’m level 30ish and play usually with a friend close to my level. And although it’s not necessarily related in our case, level matches skill and game knowledge. And I did realize a few months back that I’m always in unbalanced games because there are just not enough players in my skill range. Most players are newcomers with no skill and no game knowledge whatsoever and that brings problems. Therefore I stopped playing. And when the playing community will have improved, I’ll be back. But wait, since this is a free to play game, there will always be newcomers. So guess I’ll have to wait for a fix on the devs side of things. Which would be a proper player distribution system for starters.


(LifeupOmega) #20

Shhh. This is too logical.

[quote=“Lumi;140105”]So guess I’ll have to wait for a fix on the devs side of things. Which would be a proper player distribution system for starters.

[/quote]

Still waiting on MM being the main way to get games so we can all finally enjoy better matches tbh. Public will forever be public.