Evaczone BETA Cup {Sunday 29th June}

(Anti) #121

Hey,

I don’t really have much time to look at this right now, so this looks really ugly, but here are some quick and dirty stats from the cup at the weekend.

It’s the top 15 players in various stats categories, plus stats on Merc usage across all players.

EVAC Zone stats.jpg1297×1138 388 KB

Needless to say we’ll be comparing some of these bits of data against our regular sets of stats that we gather to see how competitive 5v5 compares to pub play.

Note: Shotguns are excluded from the weapon stats as we found a bug with some of the data they are reporting.

(humanbeen) #122

[QUOTE=Anti;503728]Hey,

I don’t really have much time to look at this right now, so this looks really ugly, but here are some quick and dirty stats from the cup at the weekend.

It’s the top 15 players in various stats categories, plus stats on Merc usage across all players.

EVAC Zone stats.jpg1297×1138 388 KB

Needless to say we’ll be comparing some of these bits of data against our regular sets of stats that we gather to see how competitive 5v5 compares to pub play.

Note: Shotguns are excluded from the weapon stats as we found a bug with some of the data they are reporting.[/QUOTE]

It’s seems that hs is not so rewarded as they must be :frowning:

(Anti) #123

Really can’t tell from these stats if that is the case. You can’t see which weapons contribute to each players Acc % and HS %, a guy using Sniper might be very high HS % but low Acc % overall. Just because you have high Acc % or HS % doesn’t mean you’ll have a high kill rate, you could be a very passive player which could mean greater accuracy but against much fewer targets.

Generally we don’t use these sorts of stats to balance, we have much more detailed and specific stuff, but to grab all of that for just the tournament and then give you a dump of it is, well, very time consuming. Echo is geared towards quite manual stats gathering and manipulation on the dev side of things, it’s not really a customer facing service.

(Seanza) #124

Cheers Anti!

(humanbeen) #125

[QUOTE=Anti;503730]Really can’t tell from these stats if that is the case. You can’t see which weapons contribute to each players Acc % and HS %, a guy using Sniper might be very high HS % but low Acc % overall. Just because you have high Acc % or HS % doesn’t mean you’ll have a high kill rate, you could be a very passive player which could mean greater accuracy but against much fewer targets.

Generally we don’t use these sorts of stats to balance, we have much more detailed and specific stuff, but to grab all of that for just the tournament and then give you a dump of it is, well, very time consuming. Echo is geared towards quite manual stats gathering and manipulation on the dev side of things, it’s not really a customer facing service.[/QUOTE] Mho is not totally based on stats but on the feelings - for example when phoenix goes vs fragger|koncker and landing rather big amount hs and not able to kill him … it’s becoming little bit sad to see that he is left by 3-4% hp …
imho even +10-20% to hs multiplier will be great help :wink:

(PixelTwitch) #126

[QUOTE=humanbeen;503734]Mho is not totally based on stats but on the feelings - for example when phoenix goes vs fragger|koncker and landing rather big amount hs and not able to kill him … it’s becoming little bit sad to see that he is left by 3-4% hp …
imho even +10-20% to hs multiplier will be great help :wink:[/QUOTE]

Actually I think that the HS multi is better now then what it was pre-patch.
I think what you are REALLY asking for is a buff to phoenixes weapon as its very low damage output.

(potty200) #127

[QUOTE=Anti;503728]Hey,

I don’t really have much time to look at this right now, so this looks really ugly, but here are some quick and dirty stats from the cup at the weekend.

It’s the top 15 players in various stats categories, plus stats on Merc usage across all players.

EVAC Zone stats.jpg1297×1138 388 KB

Needless to say we’ll be comparing some of these bits of data against our regular sets of stats that we gather to see how competitive 5v5 compares to pub play.

Note: Shotguns are excluded from the weapon stats as we found a bug with some of the data they are reporting.[/QUOTE]

As always Anti, You never fail when it comes to post cup data! Thanks again!

(Mustang) #128

Yay, I made it onto one of this lists for a change, even if it was outside the top 10. :smiley:

(humanbeen) #129

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;503736]Actually I think that the HS multi is better now then what it was pre-patch.
I think what you are REALLY asking for is a buff to phoenixes weapon as its very low damage output.[/QUOTE]
Actually i’m asking to increase hs multi not to buff phoenix weapon :wink:
Because if phoenix will be buffed then every merc will need to be rebalanced - hs multi can be increased without balancing every merc.

(Ceres) #130

But then yet again other mercs with better weapons will benefit more and you wont see the difference.

(prophett) #131

Preferred the old headshot multiplier :confused:

(Ceres) #132

I concur
chars

(Bitey) #133

Raising and lowering headshot multipliers can only increase or decrease the variance in TTK. I wish that people would realize there is nothing important about having a ultra high or ultra low multiplier for headshots or bodyparts in general. The skill based reward for hitting the head is the additional damage no matter how great or small, it is the reward itself which justifies the skill. If you’re playing to Min/Max your own personal performance (And if you’re concerned about headshot damage you should be) then it shouldn’t matter how much damage the multipliers are. The only true reason to adjust any kind of damage multiplier on any body part would be to increase/decrease consistency on TTK, which is perfectly fine going up and down depending how the game needs to be designed from the developer point of view.

I wish there was a main thread so it didnt’ feel so out of place here!

On topic of tournament lets play more!! More Event! More Funs! More tournaments!!! yeaaaah!!!

Good games too all too by the way very fun games with the Euro GIANTS Try2Be.

(Mustang) #134

It’s about whether it’s beneficial to aim for the head or not that is in question, not the reward for getting the hit.

Say a players accuracy is 30%, but their headshot accuracy is only 5%, if the multiplier is too low then the time spent getting a kill when aiming for headshots is going to greater than the time spent when aiming for the body, so no longer beneficial to go for headshots as body shots will actually land more hits and therefore kill faster, which intern lowers the skill ceiling because the target size is so much larger.

But in the same vein they also increased the hitbox sizes to compensate, allowing more heatshots to land and hence potentially making it worth going for again.

I’m not saying x2 is too low by the way, I’m currently undecided, but x2.5 was definitely not overpowered in favour of aimers (speaking as a poor aimer myself).

It’s definitely more consistent now, but also easier (which seems to be the main complaint).

(Bitey) #135

@mustang

The thing is it’s always beneficial as long as there is a positive multiplier on critical hits. the difference between 2.0-2.5x makes no difference and I’d even be fine if it dropped into the 1.5-2.0x range. As long as there is a reward for attempting the shots with a potential payout of extra damage there is always a reason to shoot for the head. Extra damage and faster TTK is the reward of higher multipliers, the effort/skill required to capitalize on those benefits remains consistent regardless.

The only expectation to this kind of thought process comes in the reward of weather or not you should be aiming for the head in certain combat zones.

Is it always worth the extra effort to obtain extra damage? Yes, Always as long as the multiplier remains positive.

Is it always optimal to shoot for the head? No, in some cases you’d want to have a more consistent output then a slight chance of variance.

That delima is solved by aiming for the upper chest/neck rather then always aiming for center mass. It allows for the natural gun rise to assist in landing headshots as well as the random spread associated with guns. This way allows you maximize output and chances of headshots in most ranges. The only real decision is weather to utilize other styles of aiming to increase your damage output or focus more intently on head shots. Multipliers won’t change how this entire decision process is made only in weather people can see the value in it.

And remember Mustang value is in the eye of the beholder, but just going by numbers it’s always better to get more damage. So in theory you should always shoot for the head no matter the multiplier!

(trickykungfu) #136

[QUOTE=Bitey;503787]@mustang

The thing is it’s always beneficial as long as there is a positive multiplier on critical hits. the difference between 2.0-2.5x makes no difference and I’d even be fine if it dropped into the 1.5-2.0x range. As long as there is a reward for attempting the shots with a potential payout of extra damage there is always a reason to shoot for the head. Extra damage and faster TTK is the reward of higher multipliers, the effort/skill required to capitalize on those benefits remains consistent regardless.[/QUOTE]

Sorry Bitey but i think you are wrong. The Benefits of a bigger HS multiplier is that it allows more Multi Kills. ATM for me it is hard to have a K/D over 3 on a really really low skilled server. It feels like i could easily knock out the complete team but i get to much damage in those 2 seconds lasting fights XD

I am not saying its not ok like it is because at the competition side the defenders atm are in favor. Increasing the HS multiplier would only make it even easier to defend

For example it was possible in RtCW to cover a narrow way with only 1 defender and he could manage to kill 2-3 people but thats just not possible in DB. Again you can’t compare both games but this was a nice thing, it felt good and was lovely to watch.

SD really have to find there own way. And its looks good atm! The match vs h. played nice. White Chapel Last Objecitve and Trainyard Last Objective played really good and felt intense. SD now has to focus on making setting a time easier for attackers!

For me all EV Objectives are broken. They are no fun. The defense can’t set up Positions it all feels random and like playing Public.

Dont wonna talk about waterloo with that broken forward spawn its not playable atm. But overall i like that map. You need good tax on the attacker side to knock out the better positioning of the defenders. Really nice!

(Glottis-3D) #137

humanbeen is just a hs-whore. he just likes messing with your heads! :smiley:

Anti, is it possible to show Dmg-per-shot fired(not include gibbing and EV) + hs acc for same ppl? i think head-hunters are going to be above body aimers?

Lets say, Ppl with higher acc but lower hs-acc. need (in my opinion) to be less effective, than ppl with higher hs-acc even with lower overal acc.
Dmg-per-shot basically says whos shots are move viable.

(Anti) #138

[QUOTE=krokodealer;503808]humanbeen is just a hs-whore. he just likes messing with your heads! :smiley:

Anti, is it possible to show Dmg-per-shot fired(not include gibbing and EV) + hs acc for same ppl? i think head-hunters are going to be above body aimers?

Lets say, Ppl with higher acc but lower hs-acc. need (in my opinion) to be less effective, than ppl with higher hs-acc even with lower overal acc.
Dmg-per-shot basically says whos shots are move viable.[/QUOTE]

We’re still working on the balance of this stuff but this chart (taken from a very small sample, just the tournament players) kind of shows it.

Lethality.jpg1272×774 638 KB

Lethality is a percentage that takes accuracy % + (head shot % * 2), because head shots at 200% damage are more valuable.

The graph shows if you increase accuracy you increase lethality, if you increase HS% you also increase leathality, and increases in HS% seem to be slightly more valuable than increases in Acc%.

To look at it another way here is how Acc% and HS% increase KPM rate.

Acc vs KPM.jpg1237×696 160 KB

HS vs KPM.jpg1238×697 129 KB

Also interesting is if you increase Acc% you will see your HS% go up as well.

HS vs Acc.jpg1102×637 113 KB

What is interesting is this is true in the current build with the 200% HS bonus, with a small sample of players and it was also true at a previous tournament where HS bonus was 250% damage. At the time the same debate was raised, as these two threads show :slight_smile:

[ul]
[li]http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/38798-EvacZone-Closed-Beta-Cup-Stats?p=484781&viewfull=1#post484781
[/li][li]http://forums.nexon.net/showthread.php?1048657-Evaczone-com-Beta-Tournament-1-RESULT&p=8883864#post8883864
[/li][/ul]

Basically, getting more head shots is still worth it and it won’t ruin your overall accuracy.

(trickykungfu) #139

nice charts. I would love to see the Accurary % of the top 15 Heashot % Players. Could you check that please? :slight_smile:

Its really strange valk does not show up in the Acc Stats or i can’t believe my acc whent from old cup 32% now somewhere under 36%. Maybe i was shooting to many pigeons XD

(Mustang) #140

I went from 26 to 37, clearly the reduced spread and larger hitboxes are working. :cool: