Evaczone BETA Cup {Sunday 29th June}

(potty200) #61

1 week to go.

Can all players and especially Team Captains please take a look at this topic:

http://forums.nexon.net/showthread.php?1050018-Evaczone-BETA-Cup-1-Week-to-Go!

(Rex) #62

Unfortunately I have to make an announcement today to be as fair as possible towards the other teams who want to play. As the Nexon forum is currently down I have to revoke what I wrote there and announce that my team Playing Ducks won’t take part in the cup, due to the lack of motivation for playing the game competitively at the moment. :frowning:

(Glottis-3D) #63

the Panda is very sad =(

(Rex) #64

Beside the motivation problem, it makes no sense to invest so much time for the game now for nothing. Especially when new teams can catch up to the best teams within one week. The reward for investing time to improve on all aspects is extremely low, hence not worth it at least for us.

(Bitey) #65

:frowning: :confused: :rolleyes:

Making a claim that new teams catch up in a week is slightly disparaging . The actual way to stay on-top is to always train yourself, strive for improvement, and always push to do better. To claim “best teams” would also imply their is a group of teams who are at the top of their game. That statement can’t be true in anyway since most of the so-called best aren’t motivated to play consistently therefore lose the right to the title. I don’t blame anyone for not playing the game as it’s a beta and it’s got it’s own (BIG) problems, but please at least state only the truth rather than an added excuse.

Train hard, train well, play the teams you view as the most skilled, and earn the title of “the best.” And please, don’t say that it takes a week to catch up. Some of the newer teams have been playing non-stop pugs, scrims, and mixes just to try to find a way to play. Always remeber that the top team of any sport is decided by he who gives it the most both physically and mentally.

(INF3RN0) #66

This cup, like most before it are purely for fun and competitive feedback. Win/loss or practice/no practice, not much changes so why drop out?

(Ceres) #67

His reasoning made absolutely no sense.

(trickykungfu) #68

For me the Maps and the Spawntimes are the biggest Problem. It feels like non stop TeamDeathmatch. You cannot build up defenses Positions and if, u are just not able to hold them very long. The only map witch works out ok is waterloo because of the much better positioning u have as defense.

So what Rex means is that atm it mostly depends on aim and not on tactics. For a team based game this is not the right way! Next big Problem is the very shallow skill gap between bad aim - good aim - excellent aim. All this allows new players to catch up very fast…

(Anti) #69

Whilst I agree we need to do more to increase the tactical options and skill curve I’m personally totally against the idea that longest time played will equal best teams, that’s just a really bad idea.

For one it’d mean beta access is a massive advantage, that is not what the beta is for, it’s for testing. Secondly that would ensure the comp community would be tiny, why try to compete if it’s impossible to close the gap on long term players? This happened in Tribes quite a bit and it hurt the game.

DB needs to support smart tactics, evolving meta and core FPS skills. I said some time ago that I didn’t really think we had the best of FPS players in the beta yet, it doesn’t surprise me at all that new guys are coming into these cups and scrims and doing better than existing players and that actually makes things really exciting to me, because it means now that we will start to see a meta game that evolves as teams push each other hard to win.

(k0k0nat) #70

The truth is somewhere between what Rex and Bitey just said.

But we have to honest at one point: The current “Meta Game” is spamming and jumping around. Play lawnmower tactics with strong merc combos, push. die. repeat.

doing better than existing players and that actually makes things really exciting to me, because it means now that we will start to see a meta game that evolves as teams push each other hard to win.

Wow. Your statement really frustrates me.
You decided against things like spread pattern and other mechanics like timing explosives/teamspawns that have to be learned.
No wonder every long-term FPS-Gamer learns the game mechanics within a few days, there is absolutely nothing to discover or learn.
I don’t get how this can be exciting.

(trickykungfu) #71

[QUOTE=Anti;502874]
DB needs to support smart tactics, evolving meta and core FPS skills. I said some time ago that I didn’t really think we had the best of FPS players in the beta yet, it doesn’t surprise me at all that new guys are coming into these cups and scrims and doing better than existing players and that actually makes things really exciting to me, because it means now that we will start to see a meta game that evolves as teams push each other hard to win.[/QUOTE]

Sure its ok that high skilled people coming from other games do great on public, making big kills and destroying the other team but for sure playing a competitive match vs same skill level always the team with tactics should win.
Best example Counter Strike

(Glottis-3D) #72

[QUOTE=trickykungfu;502883]Sure its ok that high skilled people coming from other games do great on public, making big kills and destroying the other team but for sure playing a competitive match vs same skill level always the team with tactics should win.
Best example Counter Strike[/QUOTE]

best best example is quake TDM or CTF.

(trickykungfu) #73

ok there are many more examples that do it better. But for sure that is easy XD

(Anti) #74

[QUOTE=k0k0nat;502876]
Wow. Your statement really frustrates me.
You decided against things like spread pattern and other mechanics like timing explosives/teamspawns that have to be learned.
No wonder every long-term FPS-Gamer learns the game mechanics within a few days, there is absolutely nothing to discover or learn.
I don’t get how this can be exciting.[/QUOTE]

There is more we can do to add/increase the curve via maps, I totally agree. Spaces right now aren’t varied enough, there aren’t enough routes on many maps, we could add more secondaries, we need to eliminate grind from spawn waves. We want to do all of those but they are probably a few months away at least due to other work we have to do.

On the usage of Mercs though, from the clan matches and pick-ups I’ve seen so far (I watch a lot), players are defaulting to the first strategy they found in most cases (‘spamming and jumping’) and not exploring any phase specific combos that could greatly increase their chance of success. I only think we’re going to see that happen when we get a lot of clans playing of the same skill tier in meaningful competition, because then they’ll be looking to min/max their strats much harder than they are now.

(potty200) #75

[QUOTE=trickykungfu;502883]Sure its ok that high skilled people coming from other games do great on public, making big kills and destroying the other team but for sure playing a competitive match vs same skill level always the team with tactics should win.
Best example Counter Strike[/QUOTE]

The one thing I would say with this is: CS doesn’t constantly change and get HUGE updates. The small updates they do get completely change the way top teams play the game. See the movement update and the way defenders now push up on Long. It is completely different to the way 1.6 was played. A slight change in game play = huge change in top level competition. So with the size of the updates and tweaks we are getting on DB right now means that team WILL have to change the way they play to keep their tactics fresh and constantly look for the “Perfect” strategy against their opponents.

With that being said. I look back at the way we played games like 12 months ago compared to now. Defenders tend to hold back more so now because the spread and fall off damage over distance is enough to hold on to any point of any map. With the latest update being released tonight, it will be interesting to see if team who do not practice can capitalize on whole new dynamics.

(PixelTwitch) #76

[QUOTE=Anti;502874]Whilst I agree we need to do more to increase the tactical options and skill curve I’m personally totally against the idea that longest time played will equal best teams, that’s just a really bad idea.

For one it’d mean beta access is a massive advantage, that is not what the beta is for, it’s for testing. Secondly that would ensure the comp community would be tiny, why try to compete if it’s impossible to close the gap on long term players? This happened in Tribes quite a bit and it hurt the game.

DB needs to support smart tactics, evolving meta and core FPS skills. I said some time ago that I didn’t really think we had the best of FPS players in the beta yet, it doesn’t surprise me at all that new guys are coming into these cups and scrims and doing better than existing players and that actually makes things really exciting to me, because it means now that we will start to see a meta game that evolves as teams push each other hard to win.[/QUOTE]

This is one of the best post I have read in weeks.
I am glad you are aiming in the right direction when it comes to the current issue that Skill Ceiling and Skill Gap seem to share nearly a 1:1 ratio. As well as the idea that Tactics and should add to but not overwhelm a teams core FPS skill. For the longest time I have been greatly concerned that you was going to keep increasing the skill gap to the point fun, dynamism and tactics were milked dry.

Beta is… Well… BETA! Even though I had inital doubts earlier today with the new build coming days before a cup… I am now excited by the idea and I hope you manage to get some great statistics tracked.

When it comes to “Meta” gaming… I really think you guys could do with nailing down an “official” rule set for competitive matchmaking. The current meta is just being based off what rules we decide to stick in (ie, the 1 merc per team rule). Until you manage this the game is going to remain pretty random. I am already seeing the games I am playing + speccing that the meta is getting stuck in this awkward middle ground of using alternative mercs in the same way because they know after this cup the rule will likely reset (unless we can convince other event holders in future to stick with it)

Honestly, I know you will be covering a load more bases then we are informed about…
Right now my main concern is like of dynamic play, amount of content and the Stopwatch gamemode. I honeslty think the current version of stopwatch will be what prevents this game reaching a decent position in esports and for multiple reasons. So as happy as I am to see the upcoming changes I for one am still crossing every body part that either you find a way of making stopwatch fun to watch or go for a new gamemode altogether.

(PixelTwitch) #77

[QUOTE=Anti;502892]
On the usage of Mercs though, from the clan matches and pick-ups I’ve seen so far (I watch a lot), players are defaulting to the first strategy they found in most cases (‘spamming and jumping’) and not exploring any phase specific combos that could greatly increase their chance of success. I only think we’re going to see that happen when we get a lot of clans playing of the same skill tier in meaningful competition, because then they’ll be looking to min/max their strats much harder than they are now.[/QUOTE]

Actually in the past 7 days the new strat has been to spam crouch to get the faster recoil decrease and to make movement harder to predict.
Right now its awful to watch… If you could check out some of the latest matches and see for yourself that would be great… Could really use a decreased crouch and standup speed other wise its gonna simply be A->D->C->A->D->C… Actually works amazingly well with shotguns because of their accuracy buff.

(Anti) #78

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;502896]Actually in the past 7 days the new strat has been to spam crouch to get the faster recoil decrease and to make movement harder to predict.
Right now its awful to watch… If you could check out some of the latest matches and see for yourself that would be great… Could really use a decreased crouch and standup speed other wise its gonna simply be A->D->C->A->D->C… Actually works amazingly well with shotguns because of their accuracy buff.[/QUOTE]

Will take a look into it again, we decreased it once already. I image decreasing something like this will no doubt annoy a lot of players though as it will take away the high skill move of ‘dodging’ :wink:

(PixelTwitch) #79

Think you should add a “Matrix Dodge” button for all characters…

(Glottis-3D) #80

this is true. we dont have any kind of competitive scene at the moment. so everyone plays it simple. i myself a fan of new, unexplored tactics - and i am cba to actually play and try to find those.