Et: Xreal

Dragnadh · 2011-03-13 14:33:49 UTC

[QUOTE=Dushan;268210]This is my latest work … still need to debug … I will do this in next few days …

About SQLlite … on start I have think about that … but now here we have MySQL … and am too lazy for SQLlite now …[/QUOTE]

Nice man, Looks good.

n00btime · 2011-03-13 14:57:55 UTC

QUOTE=Dushan;268285
About scons … it isnt just OpenAL … you need to add RendererGL folder and files also there (in SConscript_engine), because now we generate two engines… (old ET and new Xreal engine, with two files, in my case .dll - renderergl.dll and renderergl3.dll) …
XreaL engine isnt anymore in in ETXreaL file, I have split that to have better control over files … so renderergl3 project isnt anymore static, its now dynamic … you need to change that also …

Also you need there to add additional includes directories, dependencies and preprocessor definitions, for all projects … SConscript_etmain_cgame and SConscript_etmain_game (you need to add there MV_SUPPORT) (in SConscript_etmain_game g_admin.c/.h files also) so when its compiled under Linux with scons it have multiview support for Linux clients and admin/shrubbot system.
For SConscript_engine you need to add USE_CODEC_VORBIS, USE_OPENAL, USE_OPENAL_DLOPEN, USE_LOCAL_HEADERS, USE_CIN_THEORA with new files that I added (and rendererGL files also). Also there you need to add q_platform.h (I separated it from q_shared.h) …

about 64-bit support … its more complex then that … We need to add support for 64bit native mods and make ET:XreaL x86_64 …

If I remember something else I will edit post … and am to lazy to update scons myself :D[/QUOTE]

Ok so if I understand correctly, all rendering code has been moved to dynamic libraries that are loaded depending on what r_ cvars are set? I’m sure you’ve noticed, but all the code from the original renderer is replicated in XReaL (rendererGL3). What’s the benefit of having both? Of course, there may be differences I haven’t noticed =)

Edit: There is one! Some systems may not support an OpenGL 3.x context and won’t work anymore with only the new renderer. That only needs a teeny bit of code replication to fix though.

The preprocessor stuff is easy. I added the OpenAL ones last night, so the others are easy. I’m not sure what you mean about 64-bit support. I compiled mine under Linux x86_64 and it works great.

Destroy666 · 2011-03-13 18:42:46 UTC

Will there be new bot-system and anticheat?
The new graphics and other possiblities are awesome but I think these are the most important things to improve and they both are bad or even horrible in ET.

Dushan · 2011-03-13 20:22:59 UTC

About bots … I asked Crapshoot to add Omni-Bot support in ET:XreaL …

About anticheat … for now there will NOT be any support …
PB isnt supported in GPL ET anymore
about SLAC …
I talked with Tomislav from SLAC and he reply to me

“currently it is not an option because it is based only on GPL. I have to check out the possibilities and see what can be done, but currently other bigger games are priority.”

What else to say …

daz2007 · 2011-03-13 21:55:06 UTC

[QUOTE=Dushan;268394]About bots … I asked Crapshoot to add Omni-Bot support in ET:XreaL …

About anticheat … for now there will NOT be any support …
PB isnt supported in GPL ET anymore
about SLAC …
I talked with Tomislav from SLAC and he reply to me

“currently it is not an option because it is based only on GPL. I have to check out the possibilities and see what can be done, but currently other bigger games are priority.”

What else to say …[/QUOTE]

Maybe some in-game Protections against Aimbots and Wallhacks, there must be some security holes or flaws somewhere in the quake 3 engine that allow these hacks to work, even Black Ops(quake 3 engine) have Aimbots based on the Same Source Base used for Quake 3 and ET.

AImbots and Hackers have Ruined Quake 3, dont let it ruin ET

or, use Direct X lol

Dragnadh · 2011-03-13 22:06:11 UTC

[QUOTE=daz2007;268411]Maybe some in-game Protections against Aimbots and Wallhacks, there must be some security holes or flaws somewhere in the quake 3 engine that allow these hacks to work, even Black Ops(quake 3 engine) have Aimbots based on the Same Source Base used for Quake 3 and ET.

AImbots and Hackers have Ruined Quake 3, dont let it ruin ET

or, use Direct X lol[/QUOTE]

direct x has nothing to do with this…

daz2007 · 2011-03-13 22:14:07 UTC

I know, but Aimbots hijack the API e.g. OpenGL(Quake 3 Engine), that’s how they work, and also Since the Renderers are Separate dlls, those can be hijacked too.

stealth6 · 2011-03-13 22:26:41 UTC

I think it’s more important to just work on what you feel like.
Wasting time on anti-cheat is useless in my eyes. Hackers will always find a way to get around the system so leave that stuff for later

Dragnadh · 2011-03-14 07:16:35 UTC

Cheating should be the last concern, first we need a good stabel client/game without bugs.

ren1 · 2011-03-14 12:02:07 UTC

Hi,

I’ve tried to compile & run ET:Xreal from your repository. First it had problems with missing libtheora include files, which I’ve solved with installing libtheora-dev package (that was missing from the ‘README’)
But after everything is built ! I believe

Unfortunately I’m unable to run this program:

$ ./etxreal
ET 2.60d linux-other Mar 14 2011
----- FS_Startup -----
Current search path:
/home/ren/.etxreal/etmain
/mnt/sam400/work/apps/xreal-et/etmain

----------------------
0 files in pk3 files
Sys_Error: Couldn't load default.cfg - I am missing essential files - verify your installation?

How can I get this default.cfg ? I’ve checked my ~/.etwolf/etmain folder, and there were no default.cfg present there.

Unfortunately the README is not very helpful for this case:

Install the latest version of Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory for your platform to get the game data
and copy it to ET-XreaL/etmain or patch your Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory by extracting ET-XreaL_snapshot_date.7z over it.

What should be ‘ET-XreaL/etmain’ folder ? Where is the ‘ET-XreaL_snapshot_date.7z’ ? I have ET installed from an Ubuntu package, so I’m a bit confused what to copy and where to copy ? Can you enlighten my confusion ?

Thanks !

sondzhi · 2011-03-14 13:10:13 UTC

Beside the ET-XreaL binaries and libs, do you have the original shipped pk3 files of ET in your ET-XreaL etmain/ folder?

Afterwards start etxreal with the following extended command:

./etxreal +set developer 1 +set sv_pure 0

daz2007 · 2011-03-14 13:50:50 UTC

DDS Files Work Perfect, does anyone Know if DDS are better to use then TGA, Quality/Compression.

Also, what is wrong with the FPS in ET-Xreal, it is really Slow, i get 20fps with the map below

What will happen is actually exactly opposite to it, that is, MORE FPS. Yes, this XreaL engine which looks like heavy in graphics will give smooth fps. Now you say how? Its because XreaL engine uses GPU (Graphical Processing Unit aka Video/Graphics card) for rendering whereas the original ET’s engine is more CPU oriented i.e. it heavily depends on CPU for rendering graphics than GPU. Its because of this that you get small hiccups in fps while playing ET: your powerful 9800GTX, which can play COD4 smoothly over 190fps, would struggle to provide you even 90fps in maps like Battery or Radar. So, XreaL will be providing you performance boost rather than stealing it.

http://eliteindianwarriors.spruz.com/forums/?page=post&id=44B2F72F-FE6A-4C62-8EF4-E29E2F224873

ren1 · 2011-03-14 15:37:26 UTC

[QUOTE=sondzhi;268668]Beside the ET-XreaL binaries and libs, do you have the original shipped pk3 files of ET in your ET-XreaL etmain/ folder?

Afterwards start etxreal with the following extended command:[/QUOTE]

Thanks !

I’ve modified the code to add the value of fs_cdpath (‘cd path’) to the search path, so with it, I’m able to run the code :

./etxreal  +set fs_cdpath /usr/share/games/enemy-territory/ +set developer 1 +set sv_pure 0

It seems to be working I haven’t found much difference than the original, a nicer sky, and some random trembling overall - I’m not sure it’s a bug or should represent the hot air

How can I contribute the minor change, for this ‘fs_cdpath’ functionality?

Dushan · 2011-03-14 15:39:52 UTC

you can post there
http://www.assembla.com/spaces/xreal-et/documents
I changed and allowed that non-members can also view/edit/post on assembla page
It was request from XreaL community …

ren1 · 2011-03-14 15:49:21 UTC

[QUOTE=Dushan;268724]you can post there
http://www.assembla.com/spaces/xreal-et/documents
I changed and allowed that non-members can also view/edit/post on assembla page
It was request from XreaL community …[/QUOTE]

Great, I’m happy that I can help

n00btime · 2011-03-15 01:19:11 UTC

[QUOTE=daz2007;268684]
http://eliteindianwarriors.spruz.com/forums/?page=post&id=44B2F72F-FE6A-4C62-8EF4-E29E2F224873[/QUOTE]

That quote isn’t true =) Id Tech 3 has never had a software renderer and has always used OpenGL for GPU rendering, so the CPU was not heavily-involved.

Judging by the amount of bugs present with the rendering engine as it is, I would say that it is not fully optimized yet, thus the drop in FPS. Also, you have to consider that it is in fact doing more, so even a fully-out-of-your-mind-optimized renderer will still give you a drop in framerate vanilla ET (no something for nothing).

If you’re not a graphics nerd, I’d stop reading now:
The renderer for id Tech 3 was built to work hand in hand with all the other components, which is why it was so efficient. For example, depth-buffering, used by the graphics card to figure out which objects are closer to the viewpoint, is not needed because of the way maps are stored (BSP tree). This allows the graphics card to use the simpler “painter’s algorithm” which demands less memory.

XReaL was not designed with ET in mind, so it is possible that it may not be taking full advantage of what the engine has made available. The reverse may also be true, where the engine needs to be changed to better suit the renderer.

Edit: The reason he gives for framerate skipping is also a little false. The engine is single-threaded so sometimes framerate may suffer when doing something expensive that “starves” the rendering code. Say that you have to process sound, a collision, and network packets before drawing the next frame, for example. Graphics will likely stutter.

Dragnadh · 2011-03-15 11:21:19 UTC

[QUOTE=n00btime;268925]That quote isn’t true =) Id Tech 3 has never had a software renderer and has always used OpenGL for GPU rendering, so the CPU was not heavily-involved.

Judging by the amount of bugs present with the rendering engine as it is, I would say that it is not fully optimized yet, thus the drop in FPS. Also, you have to consider that it is in fact doing more, so even a fully-out-of-your-mind-optimized renderer will still give you a drop in framerate vanilla ET (no something for nothing).

If you’re not a graphics nerd, I’d stop reading now:
The renderer for id Tech 3 was built to work hand in hand with all the other components, which is why it was so efficient. For example, depth-buffering, used by the graphics card to figure out which objects are closer to the viewpoint, is not needed because of the way maps are stored (BSP tree). This allows the graphics card to use the simpler “painter’s algorithm” which demands less memory.

XReaL was not designed with ET in mind, so it is possible that it may not be taking full advantage of what the engine has made available. The reverse may also be true, where the engine needs to be changed to better suit the renderer.

Edit: The reason he gives for framerate skipping is also a little false. The engine is single-threaded so sometimes framerate may suffer when doing something expensive that “starves” the rendering code. Say that you have to process sound, a collision, and network packets before drawing the next frame, for example. Graphics will likely stutter.[/QUOTE]

Is it possible to make it multi-threaded?

Coroner · 2011-03-15 15:14:36 UTC

I’d like to use this discussion to ask a question:

Is anybody interested in upgrading the ET engine in relatively small steps with minor but doable objectives?
The focus would be stability and compatibility (platform, mods) rather then trying to compete with recent engines.

I could provide a game ( Truecombat: Close Quarters Battle, e.g., http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lflXNbEtJik ). So this is not about a tech demo or proof of concept.

The first step would only be to add (actually similar to what Urt is doing with Q3):
-radiosity bump mapping
-automated loading of directional lightmaps if present
-automated loading of specular and normal maps if present
-cube maps
-screen based exposure estimation (I can provide code)

If someone is interested please post here somewhere or at http://www.truecombatelite.com

Sorry for hijacking.

n00btime · 2011-03-15 16:23:25 UTC

Yes. But it’s not trivial. The GPL’d code contained the beginning of a multi-threaded framework. But it’s not just a matter of creating the threads unfortunately. OpenGL itself is not thread-safe at all and I suspect that the majority of the Q3 rendering code isn’t either. I do intend to try and make it multithreaded after the engine is properly integrated though. At the very least I’m going to spawn off a separate thread for the sound mixing.

sondzhi · 2011-03-15 16:25:42 UTC

[QUOTE=Coroner;269067]I’d like to use this discussion to ask a question:

Is anybody interested in upgrading the ET engine in relatively small steps with minor but doable objectives?[/QUOTE]

Imho without milestones this entire project wont work, so yes we have to think in small steps (eventhough small steps are elastic words).

The renderer can indeed compete with recent game renderers in certain features and in some not because the entire game world is at some point limited due to the idtech3 engine. ET-XreaL is just idtech3 with a graphical update.

Everything else would mean that you have to rewrite the whole engine to compete even with idtech5 or crytech3 engine and this will probably need years due to the fact that ET-XreaL coders doesnt get fully payed for hacking the et-xreal engine.

So yes the XreaL Renderer is there, lieing in front of us and people are less or more expirimenting with it right now. Where are the bugs, are there bugs and how will the renderer react if we use new assets, especially MD5 as model format and how will the entire game performance later be if we have a sample map done, like oasis for example.

Imho it’s like “question over question” and i think that they wont be answered if you at least dont give it a try with xreal.