ET games, CS:GO and DB - onYn´s analysis


(onYn) #1

Ok, so the past few days I have been playing lot more CS:GO then usually. While playing I realized a couple things that I want to share. Don´t worry, this isn´t going to be “why isn´t this and that like it was in ET, ET:QW” thread (since we have enough of those allready) but just a general overview why some of the reasoning may have been wrong in the past. When discussing certain points, I am not going to argue about the pro and cons of certain decisions and just focus at the arguing that has been put behind it. Please also note that CS by no means is a game I really enjoy. It´s just offers a FPS experience that builds around teamplay and has a vivid comp scene - something you can´t find elsewhere.

  1. Making sure that all of the skins that someone may have purchased are always available to the player was one of SD´s major goals (according to a statement some time ago). First I understood this, but then I started to unbox some crates in CS. I sold and bought some items on the marketplace. And after some time I realized: there are items that are worth hundreds of euros on the market, and if obtained just by unboxing more like couple thousand euros. In many cases those items are only usable by ONE side in the game. Given you are on the right “fraction” you still need to have a) enough money to purchase it b) not something similar that would make a purchase of your gun a waste of money, c) your team actually needing such a gun. Even tho the items are worth a lot of real money, CS ****s on worrying about the people not being able to use there precious guns all the time. Why does DB have to do so?

  2. Let´s make the game simple and straight forward! That´s something SD is focusing on quiet a lot. Straight forward maps where the idea behind the general concept is to make them as linear (and tubish) as possible. After all everyone should get to the objective without geting lost! So up until now there is only ONE map I would call my knowledge about half decent in CS (and where I also manage to find the bomb spots instantly without looking at the minimap^^). Even tho I have spent some time watching competition games, video guides and spent a good amount of time playing them I have pretty much no clue if it comes to the other maps. There are just countless situations you can get into and it´s every time exciting to be faced with such a situation. It´s just so addictive to know that there is still so much more you can learn… Obviously DB needs a different map design, but I know that games similar to DB had such maps where you could spent a lot of time learning them… So it´s doable :wink:

  3. Skills. In CS you obviously have your aim as a major skill. Also quiet significant is the map knowledge and especially everything that comes with it. You need to know how to use your nades, certain team tactics as well as understand contributing factors to your aim (positioning, pre aim etc.). The thing is, that all of those things aren´t going to be relevant without proper maps, since they are map dependent. You also have an economy and gun managment, that keeps the game “flowing”. Even tho not the same, switching around with classes had a similar effect and I hope will remain even if just in form of mercs. On top of that, DB could easily “offer” more skills like a more advanced movement. The current movement system is okay in theory but has almost no influence on the game right now…

All this are assumptions of how things from past SD games got changed in DB even tho they are kinda similar in CS:GO or the reasoning behind those changes is completely denied by what we see in CS:GO. I honestly think that if those three things (individuality, map variety that makes it fun to play and experience them over and over again as well as a set of skills that can be executed on them) don´t get fixe DB will just turn out as another F2P that you drop after playing it for 2 hours. It will be the next game after Brink that SD won´t quote when announcing a new game…

cheers,
onYn


#2

Can you write a TLDR version?


(onYn) #3

Well, it´s not a secret that I write long and poorly written walls of text. Sorry for not being able to make it shorter for you :wink:


#4

I disagree about skill in CS. There is so much bullet spread, if you even move slightly, that positioning with your own team is much more important than actual individual aiming.

In COD, Quake, etc you can rambo, being a 1-man team, aiming down anything, if you got skill enough.

In CS, according to my self, there is only aimskill if you stand perfectly still and crough.
If you stand, or move, its luck if you hit in CS.
Most HS’es I get in CS, are when I dont aim for head. People actually tell me to not aim for head, but aim for center, since CS bullets work this way.

But, I realise of course, that my its just opinion im listing here. I just add my 2 cents, in case someone wanted to read


(onYn) #5

Not to sure what you think I was trying to say with the skills in CS.


(NeroKirbus) #6

[QUOTE=JBRAA;517841]I disagree about skill in CS. There is so much bullet spread, if you even move slightly, that positioning with your own team is much more important than actual individual aiming.

In COD, Quake, etc you can rambo, being a 1-man team, aiming down anything, if you got skill enough.

In CS, according to my self, there is only aimskill if you stand perfectly still and crough.
If you stand, or move, its luck if you hit in CS.
Most HS’es I get in CS, are when I dont aim for head. People actually tell me to not aim for head, but aim for center, since CS bullets work this way.

But, I realise of course, that my its just opinion im listing here. I just add my 2 cents, in case someone wanted to read[/QUOTE]

The spread is gun dependent and always the same every time you shoot. For example, the AK-47’s spread is similar to T shape from my understanding that climbs to the upper left, so if you shoot at the right foot of the enemy while unloading a clip you’ll eventually get a head shot.

That’s why I don’t enjoy the game; bullets don’t go where I aim them which requires countless hours of memorization of spread patterns.


#7

You had the opinion that aim was the main skill in CS. I tried to write that I dont agree, that aim is so random in CS, which in turn makes teamplay and tactics/positioning important.

And then I mentioned games where movementskill and aimskill the main skill, where 1 person can use movement and aim, to win over many enemies.


(xdc) #8

cs 1.6 makes source and GO feel like a joke. The games skill ceiling was literally lowered so other players could enjoy the game. at least in source I could still be a 1 man army with the deagle, not happening in GO. Adjusting to GO was annoying. Only reason to play it is for the graphics and the player base


(onYn) #9

This is not true. I wrote:

“In CS you obviously have your aim as a major skill. Also quiet significant is the map knowledge and especially everything that comes with it. You need to know how to use your nades, certain team tactics as well as understand contributing factors to your aim (positioning, pre aim etc.)”


(xdc) #10

coming from quake to cs 1.5/1.6, aiming wasn’t a problem, but it was for learning the spread patterns instead. probably the most important issue. I haven’t played GO much but I’m sure its less significant. If you want to improve your aim you shouldn’t play a slow game like csgo. anyway, goodtimes.


(onYn) #11

I would love to do so. Unfortunately there is no game coming our ways, that seems to be worth it. Because of that I rather play the best competitive teamplay fps I can find.


(Protekt1) #12

[QUOTE=NeroKirbus;517878]The spread is gun dependent and always the same every time you shoot. For example, the AK-47’s spread is similar to T shape from my understanding that climbs to the upper left, so if you shoot at the right foot of the enemy while unloading a clip you’ll eventually get a head shot.

That’s why I don’t enjoy the game; bullets don’t go where I aim them which requires countless hours of memorization of spread patterns.[/QUOTE]

If you do shoot while movement affects your aim, it won’t shoot the pattern perfectly. Even then there are 2-3 patterns it chooses from randomly.


(Rex) #13

[QUOTE=JBRAA;517841]I disagree about skill in CS. There is so much bullet spread, if you even move slightly, that positioning with your own team is much more important than actual individual aiming.

In COD, Quake, etc you can rambo, being a 1-man team, aiming down anything, if you got skill enough.

In CS, according to my self, there is only aimskill if you stand perfectly still and crough.
If you stand, or move, its luck if you hit in CS.
Most HS’es I get in CS, are when I dont aim for head. People actually tell me to not aim for head, but aim for center, since CS bullets work this way.

But, I realise of course, that my its just opinion im listing here. I just add my 2 cents, in case someone wanted to read[/QUOTE]

Sounds like silver.


#14

Different skills needed, in different games.


(chippy) #15

All it takes in CS is a short dead stop when strafing for the spread to go back to 0% again, I’ve seen plenty of 5 mans where the “predator” was rushing or actively moving.


#16

Cool, please share links if you have or find

onYn:
Sorry for hijacking your topic, somewhat.

All, please reply to onYn’s topic.


(Bloodbite) #17

And until recently with all the steam bans, wasn’t the prime skill in CS:GO remembering to open your aimbot app?

Haw Haw Haw


(INF3RN0) #18

[QUOTE=JBRAA;517901]Cool, please share links if you have or find
[/QUOTE]

Just search for players like ScreaM. The ‘top aimer’ types tend to show off a lot more aggressive CS play. CS is so heavy in mechanics apart from just aim though that you won’t really enjoy yourself until you’ve mastered all the little stuff, movement being the big one. I’d agree that in CS mastering mechanics is probably more important than mastering aim. It’s definitely heavy in tactics, but that’s because it’s an SnD obj game that a lot of people have been playing for 15 some years. I find the movement/spread system really challenging to get used to coming from run and gun point and click games, but you can see just how fluid and fast it plays at the high levels.


#19

Yes, I agree.
I especially think to learn how the engine works, and where it doesnt work, lol, plus learning mechanics, is a big deal to success.