I dont think the turrets are effective enough to be much use.
I personally find the time it takes for them to lock to a target and commence firing to be too long. Usually by the time its started firing its effectively damaged to the extent that It cant fire anymore.
Is this a problem for anyone else, or is my turret strategy all wrong.
Have you faced 3 Gatlung turrets? Setting them up strategically makes a big difference. They are mostly a hinderance unless you try to run straight at them. I say they are fine.
I think they’re fine as they are in a support role. But I think they are too weak to grenades which renders them pretty useless if a single attacker has a pip of energy to lob a grenade.
I agree completely - turrets need to be hugely buffed.
Too weak, too slow, too stupid.
Now brace yourself for flaming, TF2 comparisons and complaints about turtling!
I think they’re about right. They’re quick to repair and aren’t “drop and forget” turrets. They need to be looked after and seem to lock on much better if you’re shooting at the target you want them to lock onto.
Personally I hate the TF2 turrets because the engi just drops one and wanders off and it racks up 1 billion kills for him without him needing to do anything. These turrets require more strategy and babysitting but if you have them right they do some sweet damage.
It’s true a single grenade will damage it, but they’re so easy to repair and there needs to be a way to disable them to prevent them being overpowered. They soak up bullets pretty well.
My strategy is to either deny corridors with them or to put them facing the objective but around a corner from the normal approach. And then I stick around to gaurd the area with my turret.
Alternatively: put it out in the open a bit and then put a mine in the corner where it’d be perfect to throw a grenade from to disable the turret.
EDIT: The above post wasn’t when I started my post. Comparing to TF2 is obvious though. It’s the one extreme end of turrets. The difference there is that the engi has almost no real weapons so his turret is his main attack. Here the engi is just as good as everyone else on the battlefield, his turret is meant to be a slight accompaniment.
I think the effectiveness of turrets is pretty good, actually. I’m glad they aren’t like TF2 turrets, for example. Defense is already a lot easier than offense - don’t make it easier. As someone said, multiple turrets is where it gets interesting. Just another way the game promotes teamwork. I do think, though, that they could use a decrease in the time it takes to deploy them.
[QUOTE=Krallis;334873]I dont think the turrets are effective enough to be much use.
I personally find the time it takes for them to lock to a target and commence firing to be too long. Usually by the time its started firing its effectively damaged to the extent that It cant fire anymore.
Is this a problem for anyone else, or is my turret strategy all wrong.[/QUOTE]
It’s not that turrets are to weak they do a moderate amount of damage. The issue lies in the fact that they have a very small amount of health (being able to be taken out with one grenade), Become immobilized at half health when it shouldn’t do that until like 10-15%, Small detection radius and very slow tracking/response times.
Add all those elements up and it equals a completely ineffective and useless ability.
People’s arguments for them staying this way are unjust. They’re reasoning is well multiple engineers can stack turrets which can decimate a team and are completely OP. This can be said about any class spamming an ability together. You don’t see people complaining about Soldiers grenades and armor being OP when they are spammed or Operatvies caltraps and sticky bombs stacking which is also really powerfull or Medics buffing eachothers health and using laz and auto revive to push foward like an undead army never dying.
My point being any class in a large numbers abilities can be abused and be just as affective or even more than an Engineer’s turrets. With that said even in groups turrets are not that effective because of how slow they are you can typically get to cover and pick them apart quite easy. This cannot be said about the other classes abilities when stacked can it?
[QUOTE=zenstar;334888]I think they’re about right. They’re quick to repair and aren’t “drop and forget” turrets. They need to be looked after and seem to lock on much better if you’re shooting at the target you want them to lock onto.
Personally I hate the TF2 turrets because the engi just drops one and wanders off and it racks up 1 billion kills for him without him needing to do anything. These turrets require more strategy and babysitting but if you have them right they do some sweet damage.
It’s true a single grenade will damage it, but they’re so easy to repair and there needs to be a way to disable them to prevent them being overpowered. They soak up bullets pretty well.
My strategy is to either deny corridors with them or to put them facing the objective but around a corner from the normal approach. And then I stick around to gaurd the area with my turret.
Alternatively: put it out in the open a bit and then put a mine in the corner where it’d be perfect to throw a grenade from to disable the turret.
EDIT: The above post wasn’t when I started my post. Comparing to TF2 is obvious though. It’s the one extreme end of turrets. The difference there is that the engi has almost no real weapons so his turret is his main attack. Here the engi is just as good as everyone else on the battlefield, his turret is meant to be a slight accompaniment.[/QUOTE]
The mission where security has to put a charge on the door to break out their agent is where it is effective for me.
The turrets are fine if used correctly. They shouldn’t be used as a replacement for a human but instead as a compliment to your engy. Put one down in an area where the baddies will have to run in its scanning range for more then a cpl secs (hallways, wide open rooms, places with little cover). This way the turret will almost always target some1 that runs by it.
Also dont stray too far from your turret, for the most par they are good for putting down in an area that you are close to but not watching. If the turret starts firing you will see the XP from it and know someone is there. If you see your turrets health decrease u will know someone is there. And if your turret gets disabled you will know someone is there. Basically turrets are good distractions / bullet sponges that allow you to take on an opponent whose focus is not on you.
I think their tracking ability could use a slight buff so that people cant just sprint up to them like they like to do but overall they are pretty good if used properly. Remember as an engy you have mines, wep buffs, and the turret which give you a pretty wide defensive area. Dont stray too far from your turret and they can be great allies / distractions.
I don’t think stacking is the reason why they shouldn’t get buffed. I think that they shouldn’t get buffed because if you compare an engineer to a soldier they are roughly equal in their ability to kill.
Now compare an engineer + his turret to a soldier. A very powerful turret would make engineers more powerful than other classes.
It’s an ability and shouldn’t be more powerful than other class abilities. The gattling turret is the equivalent of 3 (or was it 4) abilities: I think it’s usefulness is balanced to about that point. It shouldn’t be a gamechanger. It’s just helpful and class defining.
Turrets are fine, learn how to use them properly and dont expect them to be murder machines (although used correctly in groups they can be). And if you havnt used the Gatling turret yet they just STFU and be patient.
You’re kind of proving the point that they are pretty good as is, though. Nothing is so powerful that one of that class will be enough to be truly effective against any entire enemy team. With 8 people on a team and only 4 classes to choose from, you’re going to have multiple of the same class. In fact, you always should.
I’m glad that you can’t just have one Engy on defense set up a turret and act as the primary defense of an area. I think turrets are more designed to be a deterrent than a tank - a distraction/annoyance that has to be dealt with first before moving ahead in an area. They draw attention/fire allowing the Engy and his teammates the opportunity to deal with the aggressor(s) with less risk to themselves.
I also think people may be subconsciously comparing them to examples of what they assume a turret should be like based upon examples from other games when they really shouldn’t (i.e. TF2).
EDIT: I would chime in about the Operative’s ability to control turrets, too, but I honestly have little experience with that. Can anyone inform us of how effective or not that might make, for example, a well placed gattling turret? I assume that effectively removes the much maligned slow tracking ability of turrets from the equation.
How exactly is that proving there point. I am showing that any class can be OP and decimate a team with there abilities in numbers. Then went on to say even with multiple Engineer’s turrets are still not that effective because of how easy they can be taken out along with there slow response time.
How exactly are turrets used as a deterrent right now? They aren’t because you can run right past them before they even have a chance to respond then take them out from behind. Again how are they used as a distraction/annoyance when they do not even respond 9/10 to people running directly at them and sliding past them? They do not have to be dealt with before moving through an area because of how slow there response time and how small there detection range is. If by some chance one does need to be taken out before you can move into an area you act las though that is some monumental task when all you need to do is toss a grenade at it and boom incapacitated.
Thats quite an assumption or maybe they are really just that weak that they actual need to be tweaked. (i.e. Never played TF2)
Edit: I have used the Operatives Hack Turret ability quite a few times. It really isn’t that practical because of how useless turrets are. They are taken out quick making the work of hacking one leaving you vulnerable not even worth it. The control turret ability isnt really practical at all. It takes far to long to place the control box on a turret and then to use it you have to go over to the turret and activate it. It really isnt worth the trouble especially with how easy turrets are taken out.
[QUOTE=Got2ball;334919]How exactly is that proving there point. I am showing that any class can be OP and decimate a team with there abilities in numbers. Then went on to say even with multiple Engineer’s turrets are still not that effective because of how easy they can be taken out along with there slow response time.
How exactly are turrets used as a deterrent right now? They aren’t because you can run right past them before they even have a chance to respond then take them out from behind. Again how are they used as a distraction/annoyance when they do not even respond 9/10 to people running directly at them and sliding past them? They do not have to be dealt with before moving through an area because of how slow there response time and how small there detection range is. If by some chance one does need to be taken out before you can move into an area you act las though that is some monumental task when all you need to do is toss a grenade at it and boom incapacitated.
Thats quite an assumption or maybe they are really just that weak that they actual need to be tweaked. (i.e. Never played TF2)[/QUOTE]
All the turret examples you mention assume the turret is sitting there alone. If an engineer leaves his turret alone then he deserves no kills from that turret. You can’t simply bypass a turret that has an engineer behind it shooting at you. You also can’t bypass a turret that’s aimed at your objective.
A turret is there so that when the enemy runs at you they have to decide whether they waste a grenade on the turret and soak up your fire or whether they throw the grenade at you and soak up the turret’s fire.
Left alone a turret is useless, and that’s how it’s meant to be.
[QUOTE=Bettik;334914]You’re kind of proving the point that they are pretty good as is, though. Nothing is so powerful that one of that class will be enough to be truly effective against any entire enemy team. With 8 people on a team and only 4 classes to choose from, you’re going to have multiple of the same class. In fact, you always should.
I’m glad that you can’t just have one Engy on defense set up a turret and act as the primary defense of an area. I think turrets are more designed to be a deterrent than a tank - a distraction/annoyance that has to be dealt with first before moving ahead in an area. They draw attention/fire allowing the Engy and his teammates the opportunity to deal with the aggressor(s) with less risk to themselves.
I also think people may be subconsciously comparing them to examples of what they assume a turret should be like based upon examples from other games when they really shouldn’t (i.e. TF2).
EDIT: I would chime in about the Operative’s ability to control turrets, too, but I honestly have little experience with that. Can anyone inform us of how effective or not that might make, for example, a well placed gattling turret? I assume that effectively removes the much maligned slow tracking ability of turrets from the equation.[/QUOTE]
When the op controls the gatling turret its more like a MG nest but you can look 360 degrees and look high and low with ease. Its camera also looks clearer then first two turrets and i find it very useful when wanting to watch an area for groups and possibly hold them back without risking myself or my position, sooooooo many ways this can help with all kinds of strategies. Also as long as you know exactly where to look on the map i havnt found a range as of yet for the remote control so you can be very far away or hidden from where its at.
Lol i love comming across controlled turrets and running cirlces around them and shooting while they spin 360s trying to get me, always a suprise at first when it tracks all the way around and precise.
[QUOTE=zenstar;334923]All the turret examples you mention assume the turret is sitting there alone. If an engineer leaves his turret alone then he deserves no kills from that turret. You can’t simply bypass a turret that has an engineer behind it shooting at you. You also can’t bypass a turret that’s aimed at your objective.
A turret is there so that when the enemy runs at you they have to decide whether they waste a grenade on the turret and soak up your fire or whether they throw the grenade at you and soak up the turret’s fire.
Left alone a turret is useless, and that’s how it’s meant to be.[/QUOTE]
All the examples above do not assume the turret is sitting alone. You still can bypass a turret even with an engineer there by it. You simple run at the engineer take him out and bam your behind the turret and it isn’t firing or simply throw a grenade to take out turret hurt the Engineer form splash damage and them clean up. On the issue of a turret placed facing an objective again take it out with one grenade and plant or your teammate grabs its attention while you plant not even taking the turret out.
Someone does not have to decide whether to soak up your fire or the turrets fire because a turrets response and tracking range are horrible meaning you can simply bypass it before it even has a chance to look up at you especially as a light.
Turret hardly even kill one person. Doesn’t matter what kind of turret it is. Even 6-8 sniper shots can take down turret. That’s lame. Yes, I do that all the time to piss of enemy engineer.
Turret should be little hard to destroy and it should react faster with little longer range.
[QUOTE=Got2ball;334930]All the examples above do not assume the turret is sitting alone. You still can bypass a turret even with an engineer there by it. You simple run at the engineer take him out and bam your behind the turret and it isn’t firing or simply throw a grenade to take out turret hurt the Engineer form splash damage and them clean up. On the issue of a turret placed facing an objective again take it out with one grenade and plant or your teammate grabs its attention while you plant not even taking the turret out.
Someone does not have to decide whether to soak up your fire or the turrets fire because a turrets response and tracking range are horrible meaning you can simply bypass it before it even has a chance to look up at you especially as a light.[/QUOTE]
You’re assuming the engineer isn’t even shooting back and you’re assuming that the engineer isn’t with the turret again (in teh second example). And the grenades you’re throwing at the turret are damage that the opposing team don’t need to soak. If you’re running past turrets with no opposition then those turrets are in the wrong place. They should be at chokepoints with team members backing it up. For example in resort they do wonderfully on defence. Same as terminal in / around the hacking objective where everyone is fighting.
This is a bit of a straw man response but whatever. We disagree. I like the turret and I’ll continue to use it. You don’t which means it frees up ability points for you (or you can play a different class).
In my nearing 100hrs of playtime I’d say that my lvl 19 engineer has <10 kills with turret and I think that’s due to lock-on time. If on a 4v4 map or the likes, the engineer turret seems to me to be worth little; Only a slight deterrant on 8v8.
This may very well change once at lvl 20 with this character, but the above is my personal experience.
Bettik makes a good point with
I’m glad that you can’t just have one Engy on defense set up a turret and act as the primary defense of an area. I think turrets are more designed to be a deterrent than a tank - a distraction/annoyance that has to be dealt with first before moving ahead in an area. They draw attention/fire allowing the Engy and his teammates the opportunity to deal with the aggressor(s) with less risk to themselves.
… and to this end I believe that there is a huge learning curve because specific classes need to be played specifically (if that makes sense), and many people just didn’t like watching condescending tutorial videos.
:o
Thanks for the replies. Ill try to use them more strategically.
I do still think however that the lock on time should be fixed.
Someone can be standing in front of my turret for several seconds and it still doesnt register them.