elbow rage

[RasteRayzeR]

[QUOTE=green-industry;461709]hi my name is d@n!el,

I have been gaming competitively for over 15 years. I played rtcw with the darkside crew and competed in qcon with them. they recently introduced me to this game, about a month ago. and my elbow is warmed up some, and is now channeling all my emotions through it and onto people’s ****ing faces. so when you see green-industry or d@n!el, and your jaw dislocates. the darkside crew Welcomes you Aboard. now down to business.

1. I need an admin to help me change my user name to d@n!el

2. my first impression of the game is, way to much going on. you have to simplify it some or it will never be a big hit. noobs like simple, they just want to frag and have fun for a bit. and there is way too much crap to remember.

3. now for the gamers that are planning to take the elbow to peoples ****ing faces in a competitively way, you have to fix the following.
   random spawn timers, please hang the ernie that came up with that idea. if your team cant rush in a coordinated wave, its pointless. so please dislodge and fix the problem.

4. the classes, get rid of the recon class. its useless. get rid off the grenade launcher on the heavy class, or the ernie coming up with this ideas.
   only the engineer should be able to fix things, defuse or plant. that’s why is call an engineer. its the teams job to keep him alive to do so.
   if you are worry about what pub players want, then you need to have a competition mod. or just go ahead and give me a refund.

5. some classes need grenades. if not, is not a deal breaker.

6. before you keep coming up with this great ideas, fix what you have. like the black engineer you cant see. or the ****ing beeping that’s about to drive me off the wall.

the other issues I had, were fixed with this patch.[/QUOTE]

I find this post useless, unlike the recon class :

1. Send a PM to Badman

2. This is a PC only game, not a consolish noob-like game. If you played comp for 15 years including on RTCW, I really don’t see how XT can be “too hard to play”. In fact, we are many here thinking that the game should have more tricks and abilities to learn.

3. The grenades have become an ability. The only way to give grenades to many classes is to give them a new sort of grenades that fit their personality. Welcome in XT, not a copy of the other previous titles.

4. Before you think you own SD and can fire people because you don’t like a feature, try to play it, test it, and think how other players could enjoy this feature. Plus, you appear to know about nothing about software development and project management, so if I were you I would try to remain silent on such matters.

EDIT : I also strongly suggest you change your attitude from self-proclaimed god to alpha tester, like the rest of us.

[Djiesse]

I was going to suggest a option or toggle, or… whatever, to force a specific (default per class) model onto player mercs/skins, for competitive play at the very least. No one but pub players will really ever give a second **** about how their character looks. Similar option, such as Quake has, to simply override the character model would be great. Given that you plan for even more mercs in the future, having 20 different looking medics hopping around your screen would be… annoying.

The problem is that these 20 different looking medics would also have slightly different abilities and weapon loadouts (although it’s been hinted that we may soon be able to pick different weapon loadouts for the same merc). If all enemy engineers were to look the same for instance, you wouldn’t know whether to watch for turrets, landmines or stickies on the field…

[OwNLY]

[QUOTE=green-industry;461709]…
if you are worry about what pub players want, then you need to have a competition mod. or just go ahead and give me a refund.
…[/QUOTE]

This. The rest isn´t wrong, either.
“Shaped by gamers”. But what kind of gamers are they listening too?

If SD thinks a pubgame with turrets, mines, nadelaunchers,
shotguns, throwing knifes, spycams, etc will be successfull, so be it.
But in the same time they are definitely creating a split between comp and pub.
There is no way to balance all this stuff perfectly.
Even the best like DICE, Activision, Treyarc, Infinity Ward, etc. failed big time in CoD and Battlefield.
And they don´t even see what is wrong with the game, they are happy with the pile of **** they patched together.
Now SD goes down the same road.

The most successful games in comp were CS, CoD ProMod, Quake-Series, BF2, even ET.
The games were pretty simple (in terms of available stuff), and still had deeper tactics than the newest CoD-clone with the noobtube.
BF3 had NO customization rules and failed miserably after the money was gone, Black Ops 2 didnt even have a ProMod.
For example, everyone was able to spam USAS+IRNV+Extended Mag+12G Frags in BF3 competetive “mode”.
Now SD comes in and says that they want to play comp exactly like pub and everything will be perfectly balanced.
First, i don´t see that happening in the next year.
You need to optimize the game and get rid off all bugs before you even try to balance the classes perfectly.
Second, SD wants monetize the game by adding more mercs in the future.
How long will these mercs be playtested before they get into the game?
1-2 months with daily testmatches are necessary.
If they don´t test them enough, they have to play it safe and underpower them,
or just go down the pay2win and throw new op-mercs into the game.

Let´s hope the next 2-3 months of alpha contains steps into the right direction…

/Edit: At the beginning of 2013, we had alot of comp players active in the alpha,
and this part of the forum was alot more populated.
In the last few months, nearly all of them abandoned the game.
First, there were no steps forward in the progress of the game.
Second, SD made it pretty clear what they want to do with XT:
more cod-style pub, less “highly competetive new old school FPS”.

[Rex]

[QUOTE=OwNLY;468441]
Even the best like DICE, Activision, Treyarc, Infinity Ward, etc. [/QUOTE]

I lol’d hard.

[OwNLY]

I lol’d hard.

Correcting myself: “the best selling”

[Rex]

Correcting myself: “the best selling”

Much better.

[ailmanki]

[QUOTE=OwNLY;468441]Now SD comes in and says that they want to play comp exactly like pub and everything will be perfectly balanced.
First, i don´t see that happening in the next year.[/QUOTE]
I think its a difficult target, none the less its a good one.
Many real life sports, are the same for ‘pub’ and pro. Even though there are often special rules, the core game is exactly the same.
Basketball is always basketball, and so is football or tennis.

I really appreciate the effort from SD to try that.TBH we should embrace that thought, and try our best to give feeback which makes it happen.
The biggest crux in all this, is that SD has to make money with this. If this game fails, then in my opinion only because of that.

[OwNLY]

[QUOTE=ailmanki;468480]I think its a difficult target, none the less its a good one.
Many real life sports, are the same for ‘pub’ and pro. Even though there are often special rules, the core game is exactly the same.
Basketball is always basketball, and so is football or tennis.

I really appreciate the effort from SD to try that.TBH we should embrace that thought, and try our best to give feeback which makes it happen.
The biggest crux in all this, is that SD has to make money with this. If this game fails, then in my opinion only because of that.[/QUOTE]

Of course, with a different pub/comp mode, the “core game” wills stay the same.

But you are not allowed to bring a trained monkey, dogs, trip wires or a enemy-blining laser to a high league soccer field.
If you and your buddies think it´s fun to play soccer with a trained monkey, no one will stop you (except maybe PETA).
For me that is the difference between pub and comp.

That was the same, even for games like CoD where they had all this mines, killstreaks and perks,
but in ProMod they patched the trained monkeys out.

Because stuff like that doesn´t add depth to the gameplay, a trained monkey is just fun to use and watch.
For everyone else playing it´s annoying as ****. The same for mines, turrets, spycams, killstreaks, etc.

So the comp gamemode IS the core gameplay without unnecessary stuff that add nothing but randomness.

Comp players want to focus on the gameplay, and not on nice looking effects.
If it were for me, the current “duel” map could be released.
No clutter, no distracting textures, high FPS. Thats what i call good gameplay.

[ailmanki]

[QUOTE=OwNLY;468482]Of course, with a different pub/comp mode, the “core game” wills stay the same.

But you are not allowed to bring a trained monkey, dogs, trip wires or a enemy-blining laser to a high league soccer field.
If you and your buddies think it´s fun to play soccer with a trained monkey, no one will stop you (except maybe PETA).
For me that is the difference between pub and comp.

That was the same, even for games like CoD where they had all this mines, killstreaks and perks,
but in ProMod they patched the trained monkeys out.

Because stuff like that doesn´t add depth to the gameplay, a trained monkey is just fun to use and watch.
For everyone else playing it´s annoying as ****. The same for mines, turrets, spycams, killstreaks, etc.

So the comp gamemode IS the core gameplay without unnecessary stuff that add nothing but randomness.

Comp players want to focus on the gameplay, and not on nice looking effects.
If it were for me, the current “duel” map could be released.
No clutter, no distracting textures, high FPS. Thats what i call good gameplay.[/QUOTE]
I agree on most except for the mines, turrets, spycams.
If those extras, are weak enough as that they are of no use in pro, then they will not be used. Since its per merc, you can simply avoid those thing in comp. But the turrent, as it is now, seems a fair deal to me. The landmine is a instant kill, which seems to much. There is the hearbeat sensor which I think is OP in every case, but REX said its of no use in pro, so im little confused there. Spycam seems totally useless to me, only slows down the game, yet some pub player might have alot of fun with it.

I would love to play the game, with one color for walls, another for ground and so on, instead of textures. But afterwards being able to watch the demo in full glory.

And yes the comp gamemode is/should be the core gameplay. Else one feels very stupid coming from pub to comp.

[Rex]

There is the hearbeat sensor which I think is OP in every case, but REX said its of no use in pro, so im little confused there.

Did I? Anyway, wallhacks for comp are nonsense.

[ailmanki]

Did I? Anyway, wallhacks for comp are nonsense.

Since I can’t find the post… I must have dreamed or missunderstood

[dAR3N]

[QUOTE=RasteRayzeR;468329]I find this post useless, unlike the recon class :

1. Send a PM to Badman

2. This is a PC only game, not a consolish noob-like game. If you played comp for 15 years including on RTCW, I really don’t see how XT can be “too hard to play”. In fact, we are many here thinking that the game should have more tricks and abilities to learn.

3. The grenades have become an ability. The only way to give grenades to many classes is to give them a new sort of grenades that fit their personality. Welcome in XT, not a copy of the other previous titles.

4. Before you think you own SD and can fire people because you don’t like a feature, try to play it, test it, and think how other players could enjoy this feature. Plus, you appear to know about nothing about software development and project management, so if I were you I would try to remain silent on such matters.

EDIT : I also strongly suggest you change your attitude from self-proclaimed god to alpha tester, like the rest of us.[/QUOTE]
I love you.

[Seanza]

Did I? Anyway, wallhacks for comp are nonsense.

I’m actually pretty happy with how the heartbeat sensor is balanced, the recharge time could be a little longer. Never thought I’d say that about a radar-like ability. It only gives your opponent a general idea of where you are, no more than their team calling “3 left” or whatever. You are not detected for long enough to be at any significant disadvantage.

[acutepuppy]

I was going to suggest a option or toggle, or… whatever, to force a specific (default per class) model onto player mercs/skins, for competitive play at the very least. No one but pub players will really ever give a second **** about how their character looks. Similar option, such as Quake has, to simply override the character model would be great. Given that you plan for even more mercs in the future, having 20 different looking medics hopping around your screen would be… annoying.

With any luck, pub players will become interested in ranked/competetive play with time, so don’t take such a strict view there.

I believe that recognizing the Merc by silhouette and palette is critical, though cosmetic add-ons can be kept in check by keeping style consistent.

[FireWater]

Splash Damage needs to get people to care about the game in general first, then draw a competitive base from that. Several games tried the inverse (I.e. Brink and FireFall) and have wasted millions of dollars trying to do so.

Also this game is free 2 play, skins and customizations are needed to fund the game.

[OwNLY]

But if the game comes out without a competetive mode or not being able to be played competetively, the eSport-scene will not approve of the game.

Battlefield 3 pleased the masses of players, but had no eSport-features whatsoever.
After the price money was gone, the competition died quickly.

[FireWater]

I hate to break it to you.

You don’t need an eSports scene to develop a PvP based game. If you lead with tournaments you’ll get another BF3, Brink, Shootmania and last but not least FireFall, who recently SHUT DOWN their PvP function in their game because of horribly failed eSports tournaments.

You have to have people play the game because they love it, not for the money. The money only pays to the top 1% anyway. Tournaments need to be built from the ground up, with fan support, not financial support (at least in the beginning). This is part of the reason why League of Legends is so popular, because they built a game that was easily accessible, built a fan base, and from that fan base built an eSports scene.

eSports should be developed AFTER the game is a commericial success through its fundamental gameplay that is accessible to newer players, with a high skill ceiling for those who want more.

Anything before will just die when the money is gone.

[Evil-Doer]

[QUOTE=FireWater;470074]I hate to break it to you.

You don’t need an eSports scene to develop a PvP based game. If you lead with tournaments you’ll get another BF3, Brink, Shootmania and last but not least FireFall, who recently SHUT DOWN their PvP function in their game because of horribly failed eSports tournaments.

You have to have people play the game because they love it, not for the money. The money only pays to the top 1% anyway. Tournaments need to be built from the ground up, with fan support, not financial support (at least in the beginning). This is part of the reason why League of Legends is so popular, because they built a game that was easily accessible, built a fan base, and from that fan base built an eSports scene.

eSports should be developed AFTER the game is a commericial success through its fundamental gameplay that is accessible to newer players, with a high skill ceiling for those who want more.

Anything before will just die when the money is gone.[/QUOTE]

A lot of great points here.

[Anti]

[QUOTE=FireWater;470074]I hate to break it to you.

You don’t need an eSports scene to develop a PvP based game. If you lead with tournaments you’ll get another BF3, Brink, Shootmania and last but not least FireFall, who recently SHUT DOWN their PvP function in their game because of horribly failed eSports tournaments.

You have to have people play the game because they love it, not for the money. The money only pays to the top 1% anyway. Tournaments need to be built from the ground up, with fan support, not financial support (at least in the beginning). This is part of the reason why League of Legends is so popular, because they built a game that was easily accessible, built a fan base, and from that fan base built an eSports scene.

eSports should be developed AFTER the game is a commericial success through its fundamental gameplay that is accessible to newer players, with a high skill ceiling for those who want more.

Anything before will just die when the money is gone.[/QUOTE]

I think this is the philosophy we believe in as well, we want the game to have a good eSports scene and lots of competition, but we’re not going to force that on people and we’re not going to artificially inflate it. The desire and drive for a strong eSports scene needs to come from the game’s community itself.

That said, we do want to provide tools at or very close to launch that allow people to compete, so that any potential eSports scene can be grown from the grass routes up. What I mean by this is features like spectator mode, demos/replays, admin commands, passworded servers etc. Everything any experienced community or admin requires to run and manage tournaments themselves.

[FireWater]

[QUOTE=Anti;470137]I think this is the philosophy we believe in as well, we want the game to have a good eSports scene and lots of competition, but we’re not going to force that on people and we’re not going to artificially inflate it. The desire and drive for a strong eSports scene needs to come from the game’s community itself.

That said, we do want to provide tools at or very close to launch that allow people to compete, so that any potential eSports scene can be grown from the grass routes up. What I mean by this is features like spectator mode, demos/replays, admin commands, passworded servers etc. Everything any experienced community or admin requires to run and manage tournaments themselves.[/QUOTE]

Provide the tools necessary, and assist with promotion. This is exactly what needs to happen, and a major reason why CS 1.6, Quake 3 and W:ET were successful competitive titles. Community support is the reason people still play CS 1.6. Give the community the tools, let us build the scene. Making the game accessible to newer players is also very important, and I will make my own detailed post regarding that later today.