El Kef competition map - first beta release - need testers

(rabies) #21

Hopefully this isn’t the wrong place to post, but the screenshots look so frickin cool that I want to have this on our server immediately. We are running shrub etpub objective cycle and El Kef wont’ run in the rotation. The server skips it and goes on to the next map. How can I fix this problem?

(]UBC[ McNite) #22

and one of them is closed off by a wall that needs dynamited.

actually u can get through the window no problem from both sides… which is why i missed this objective at first completely (it also didnt show up on the command map).

Your maplayout sketch is missing the satchelable barrier north of the objectives I think.

(Marko) #23

@rabies: ermm I’m not sure what could be causing that. I deliberately didn’t put a campaign file within the pk3 so as to avoid any kind of conflict or problem for people hosting servers who want to get the map in a rotation. It seems to work fine on 2 servers I set up too, but they are ETPRO… Could it not be somrthing you accidentally missed out in your rotation? (the map is called el_kef and not beta3_el_kef as the pk3 is named…:))

@]UBC[ McNite: You’re right, you can get past those windows both ways but it will make axis loose a significant amount of time if they want to just jump through the windows since it isn’t that easy to get in :D… I’m not sure it is usefull though to have this dynamitable wall. This is also a point I’d like to discuss once the map gets tested by several players.
As far as the barrier is concerned, I’ll have to check that out but I don’t remember missing anything out in the map script regarding this. Anyhow, I’ll check this tonight when I get home & keep you posted :smiley:

Thanks again for your feedback :wink:

(]UBC[ McNite) #24

Hmmm i can see spawncamping on this map… the northern path from axis spawn after gate has been destroyed leads back into the 1 yard. So allies only need to control that yard and axis dont get anywhere. That northern path needs a direct connection to the area north of the barrier (make it 1-way so you cant get back taht way with the docs else the escape is too easy).
Also i think 15 mins are enough playtime.
Then the area in which the dyno can be planted at teh barrier is too large.
About the detail again: moving in the map isnt fluid because there are lots of things u can get stuck at. That sux tbh (especially the area around the dynamitable wall isnt good).

The map doesnt show up in the mapliste for votes, also it doesnt for referees. We can only start the map with /ref map el_kef. I guess that is because of the mismatch of pk3 and bsp name?

(Ifurita) #25

Marko, have you found 2 (or more) teams who would be willing to scrim this map? At this point, I think you’re getting a lot of good individual feedback, but a lot of issues won’t really get exposed until you get a 6 v 6 game going under scrim conditions. One suggestion is talk to Red over at et1337.net (#et1337 @ irc.quakenet.net). They run scrim-like forums games every 2 weeks or so on 2 maps at a time. I think they could help give your map a run through and then give some good constructive feedback. I know they’ve helped tons with the development of Rochelle.

(Marko) #26

hehe well thanks a lot for all the info Ifurita. I’ll get on to him tonight if I can catch him. :smiley:

(The Village Idiot) #27

I really like the look of this map. I think it shows a lot of promise. I have yet to actually play it in a pub or scrim setting, so all my impressions of this map happen to be only from a solo perspective. Please be aware that my criticisms should not be taken as insults, but mere impressions. If I don’t say anything about something in particular, that probably means I’m fine with it.

Ok, my first impressions of this map is that it is very good looking, but not the best set up. in my opinion, it is almost too large or spread out. Some portions of the map fit well, but overall, the number of phases seems to high. This map could be anywhere from a 2 phase map, to a 5 phase. Now multiple phases are fine, but if you have them, they must be organized correctly. I think the spacing between phases is farily decent. The probably I see is that the map appears too cluttered. There are a lot of obsticales, hallways, and rooms, which lead to nowhere, otherwise their use is limited because of their in acessability. My suggestion would be to cut out a couple paths, otherwise remove some of the obsticals in order to make travel quicker. If this is confusing, I must apologize, because I’m still having mixed feelings on certain parts. Many of my opinions my change or be verified once I play it.

Now, onto some screens.


The above screen shows the entrance to a room in the main entrance phase. It is located right where the offense comes out of the radio courtyards halls. What I’d do, is remove this room, and just make it one solid wall of the building. This will give 2 paths instead of 3, and remove clutter. Also it restrics the defenses ability to camp, making the map move along slightly faster


Now, after the main entrance is blown, we come to the courtyard with these crates here. To me these seem a little out of place. There’s to many of them to be logical. It’s like a storehouse in the middle of a street. So what I propose, is that instead of all the boxes, you is remove all but 2 crates, and set those on the west, any way, but not on top of each other. Then, you raise the stone wall in the back, to about the height of a crate, or maybe a little less. This would provide the offense with some cover, but it would limit it. So the defense can still fire at them somewhat. This way the offense would have to move under fire, instead of haveing a cakewalk to the hall.


In this screen, you see the hall that those crates lead to. This hall seems short and unnecessary, as well as the room you cant get to. What I propose is you remove the rest of the hall and those stairs. Then, get rid of the grate and light (make it artificial or put a ceiling light), and make it accessible. From the room there, would be a down-sloping hall, into the following room that leads to the next hall. Also if it is possible, I think it could be nice to make the corner on the right leading to the sloping hall a curved corner.


Nothing really to say in this screen. Just to note, the other hallways I was talking about above is the hallway from the south side of the room located off screen to the east. Also I was thinking that you might want to remove that tree, as it blocks the view of both axis and allies, and could hinder both sides substantially. Also, raise the sky barrier in this section. Its too low, because when you climb up the ladder to the west, you cant jump as high. This means you cant strafe jump off of the ledge down onto the boxes or door ledge below.


This screen shows a balcony and window ledge near the objective room. It also shows the barrier door construct. At first I was thinking it would be nice if the sky barrier was raised, so that you could trickjump into the objective room, and steal them without getting past the door. However, that doesn’t seem very fair, so you would need more opinions. I was just wondering what you thought about this, and if you intended it a possibility, or if you restricted it for the very reason I mentioned.

My last suggestions is in the objective room, that you either remove or raise the two ceiling lamps. They’re too low, and you can bump into them while jumping around in the room.

That’s it for now. I expect over time I will have more imput and suggestions. Once again, please do not take any of this to offense. Also if I was confusing in anyway, you can contact me on IRC in #ascend @ quakenet, and I could attempt to explain myself better in person.

(au.Hiroshima>) #28

re getting into the objective room via the balcony, you can do it now without a trickjump - drop onto the ledge above the two windows and prone to get under the joists above, then you can easily jump onto the long ledge leading into the objective room. I think if you were able to simply jump from the balcony railing across it would be too easy.

(The Village Idiot) #29

Jumping to the window and proning under the joists is the first thing I tried, but I am unable to jump high enough to make it to the ledge. However, I recently found that it is possible to simply jump from the balcony, onto the thin ledge surounding the building. From there you can simply walk to the objective room ledge.

(au.Hiroshima>) #30

you are correct, I described that poorly. rather than jump across I should have said drop down onto the thin ledge then walk across.

I was wondering if it would be worth adding another thin ledge to where the red line is in this screenshot, so that players may boost up to the balcony should they wish to avoid the stairs?

(Marko) #31

hehe well that’s great feedback, thanks guys.

I have have 9 other beta versions compiled and tested since the one posted in public. I just didn’t dare post them all in order to avoid looking insane, changing every single glitch & idea that came across my brain.

Here’s my answers to your feedback:

The above screen shows the entrance to a room in the main entrance phase. It is located right where the offense comes out of the radio courtyards halls. What I’d do, is remove this room, and just make it one solid wall of the building. This will give 2 paths instead of 3, and remove clutter. Also it restrics the defenses ability to camp, making the map move along slightly faster

I fully agree with this one. That area dosen’t add much to the game play and is a bottleneck since you can only shoot from the sole window open without jumping out from it. I’ll discuss it with the 7Co clan guys but I’m sure they’ll all agree on this

Now, after the main entrance is blown, we come to the courtyard with these crates here. To me these seem a little out of place. There’s to many of them to be logical. It’s like a storehouse in the middle of a street. So what I propose, is that instead of all the boxes, you is remove all but 2 crates, and set those on the west, any way, but not on top of each other. Then, you raise the stone wall in the back, to about the height of a crate, or maybe a little less. This would provide the offense with some cover, but it would limit it. So the defense can still fire at them somewhat. This way the offense would have to move under fire, instead of haveing a cakewalk to the hall.

7Co Burniole insisted on me removing these crates for several reasons:

  1. they are out of place… as you said, it’s like an outdoor warehouse in the street which does look silly
    :bump:
  2. defense can camp up there and have an excellent firing position with a panzerfaust or even just with guns and spawn camp too easily.

I will therefore consider removing that load of crates and raise the wall. My main objective was to provide a sheltered exit from the forward spawn that would kind of cut the paths in 2, making it hard to camp in that position. I suppose raising the wall and scattering 2 crates out there will do the trick perfectly :clap:

In this screen, you see the hall that those crates lead to. This hall seems short and unnecessary, as well as the room you cant get to. What I propose is you remove the rest of the hall and those stairs. Then, get rid of the grate and light (make it artificial or put a ceiling light), and make it accessible. From the room there, would be a down-sloping hall, into the following room that leads to the next hall. Also if it is possible, I think it could be nice to make the corner on the right leading to the sloping hall a curved corner.

I’ll have to discuss this with the other guys too :smiley: That corridor was at first planned to land in the corridor of the building nearby, but I moved it back to the street for optimisation reasons (more control over FPS => better performance)

othing really to say in this screen. Just to note, the other hallways I was talking about above is the hallway from the south side of the room located off screen to the east. Also I was thinking that you might want to remove that tree, as it blocks the view of both axis and allies, and could hinder both sides substantially. Also, raise the sky barrier in this section. Its too low, because when you climb up the ladder to the west, you cant jump as high. This means you cant strafe jump off of the ledge down onto the boxes or door ledge below.

hehe well this one is tricky. The tree with the fat trunk was added deliberately. We decided to plant that tree there after a guy camped there with a mobile mg and totally decimated players leaving the forward spawn… This is why we blocked the view. Maybe this will change your way of considering this tree, please tell me. I’d be more than interested to know :banana:

This screen shows a balcony and window ledge near the objective room. It also shows the barrier door construct. At first I was thinking it would be nice if the sky barrier was raised, so that you could trickjump into the objective room, and steal them without getting past the door. However, that doesn’t seem very fair, so you would need more opinions. I was just wondering what you thought about this, and if you intended it a possibility, or if you restricted it for the very reason I mentioned.

The “side entrance” to the objective was done on purpose. Since the objective is very close to the defense spawn, it’s far easier with a covert ops… but we added this side path to be able to take the objective without a cov ops… It still takes 11 extra seconds to go through that path because you either have to get on the ledge, prone, get along the ledge and jump over OR you have to get on the balcony rail adjust your position and angle then jump. I suppose some will be quicker than I will but 10 seconds is still a consequent amount of time lost :bump:

Adding that little red ledge you pointed out in red could be cool too because it would be a fast way in for organised teams :smiley:

concerning the new beta which should be released shortly, here’s the list of changes atm:

  • teams are swapped over to have the right sounds for the right teams
  • the command post spawn has been removed for the defense team
  • the last defense spawn exit via a back door on the objective courtyard has been moved to the other side of the building (the purpose is to make the run a little longer to make it harder to defend)
  • areas where mines can be layed have been added
  • command map icons are being added
  • textures and bug fixes
  • improved FPS (more hints & crap to get better performance)
  • I’ll have to consider making those changes you suggested before releasing the beta so we can see if it helps in any way.

There’s a few other features too but I can’t remember them since I’ve been through 10 beta versions between both released.

Anyhow, thanks all of you for all your feedback. I’m sure it will help us greatly improve the map. The next release should be the one that will need tested since it will be quite well balanced (we’ve tested it already many times on our side hehehe) :moo:

I’ll post the news tonight if we managed to get it sorted out by then :smiley: :beer:

(The Village Idiot) #32

hehe well this one is tricky. The tree with the fat trunk was added deliberately. We decided to plant that tree there after a guy camped there with a mobile mg and totally decimated players leaving the forward spawn… This is why we blocked the view. Maybe this will change your way of considering this tree, please tell me. I’d be more than interested to know
That actually makes a lot of sense. One thing though is the inclusion of hitsounds. Even with the tree blocking the view, a mobile MG could easily do spray and pray, and use the hitsounds to aim. This would work especially efective with clans, because his teamates could then tell him when and where to fire. However, this might be void if bani removed hitsounds for the MG as he did the flamer in ET Pro. If he hasnt yet, I think I’ll ask him to, because thats actually a good idea. It would mean no more cheap MGing through smokescreens . I’ll have to see for myself though, as far as the tree goes. I’ll just have to play the map a bit more.