Echo inpact in FPS ERA

(Donnovan) #1

I watched the Echo public video and after some degust i predicted one thing:

SD have recorded in his database all the matches played in Dirty Bomb.

Echo can access and generate statistics about any of the gameplay aspects. It still needs inteligent persons operating, but those can use it tools to extract answers from any question made about one person, clan, or group of persons…

Echo is to be released for public! Edit: I hope!!!

See… if we have this power in our hands there will be no more the old discussions about merit of any clan or merit of any player… This will already be set on fire in the server database!

In truth, we will discuss about WHAT IS MERIT! Then the clever make the Echo queryes using that definitions, press the button and voila! We have the answer! :C)

It will not be possible to lie anymore! We change from the long discussion of the blinds to the discussion of what is to be the scientific definition of anything we want to measure! This is the way angels works in heaven analisyng the space-time continum :wink: LOL

Justice can be blind, but in Dirty Bomb it is not!

Very nice public Echo video! :C)

(BomBaKlaK) #2

we want the tools who come with !

  • Minimap strat tool
  • Minimap statistics (as show in the video)
  • Minimap stats or each player and for the clan (clan support said before)
  • Recording Tool to make some amazing videos.
  • some more amazing tools !

can be just perfect

(Donnovan) #3

My work for a live is about analisys data from bases of a company with continental presence. What i love in my work is that, despite anything anyone on the company says, i allways have the chance to know truth.

I’m very happy with Echo possibilities.

(Syaran) #4

Giving the players access to data gathered with Echo is a very bad idea if you want to have a competitive environment. Imagine clan wars, you can prepare by looking at the enemy team’s Echo data and at a glance you will see their team’s weak points, which classes they are likely to use, which paths they tend to take, etc.

What I DO agree with is that the overall Echo data should be anonymised and made public so that you can prevent forum discussions about OMG GUN X IS SO UP since you can just head over to the Echo data and point out the kill ratio people are getting with the gun etc.

(mitsuhiko) #5

Giving the players access to data gathered with Echo is a very bad idea if you want to have a competitive environment. Imagine clan wars, you can prepare by looking at the enemy team’s Echo data and at a glance you will see their team’s weak points, which classes they are likely to use, which paths they tend to take, etc.

You mean like in any other sport? :slight_smile:

(BrightIs) #6

[QUOTE=Syaran;427052]Giving the players access to data gathered with Echo is a very bad idea if you want to have a competitive environment. Imagine clan wars, you can prepare by looking at the enemy team’s Echo data and at a glance you will see their team’s weak points, which classes they are likely to use, which paths they tend to take, etc.
[/QUOTE]

The players on your own side and you yourself can find your own weaknesses and improve on them by using echo. Like they do in football and tennis. It will only increase competitiveness and make tactics evolve faster than they already do. It is taking the next step forward for fps gaming as a sport.

(Syaran) #7

I think you misunderstand me, it’s fine for players to have access to their own data, I just don’t want that same data in the hands of my clan’s opponents. In any other sport, only very general statistics are sure things, the rest you have to find out on your own by watching them closely. Preparing to fight a specific opponent to such an extent should be an option which costs a lot of time investment, not just going to the website, grabbing their stats in 5 seconds and going from there…

(mitsuhiko) #8

There are companies that sell football analytics. They track every player movement, ever pass, every injury etc. and make predictions of that. I would be surprised if teams would not devote part of their finances to getting in as much information as possible about other teams from outsourced work.

JFTR: above statements of mine are just a personal opinion and has nothing to do with echo data being available or not. I have no idea what’s going to happen with echo post release aside from it being used by developers.

(Donnovan) #9

(Falcon.PL) #10

It’s good when enemies can analyze our stats before match… and so we can analyze their’s ;-).

Not only it will be fun, but also weak tactical choices will be removed more quickly, as enemies will exploit them sooner.

The real problem would rather be the impact of Echo on frames per second. And about that one I’m entirely not happy, especially if it will also lag the connection with master-serwer, as huge amount of data will be transfered either during the matches, or after every match/campaign on every server. Also how about modifying the data by malicious server side? Will it be checked against client-side records or checksums, or some other memory or time consuming processes? When send? How ensured server is not working with all the way fake clients? And finally what if aliens are involved, and they say “you rather accept the data” looking at you with their green faces and pairs a huge elliptic dark eyes?

Anyway - data being available = cool. Data being stored at cost of lags, ram-eating and fps drop = not cool.

(Donnovan) #11

Video says nothing about public release. But i could not handle my self, as a data base researcher, to dream with the tasty data that can comes from it.

Sorry for the buzz… :slight_smile:

SELECT (SUM(1) AS CHRIS_BACK_KNIFE_HITS) FROM ALL_MATCHS WHERE (PLAYER = “CHRIS” AND WEAPON=“KNIFE” AND HIT=TRUE AND HIT_ANGLE BETWEEN (90,270))

(en2ie) #12

Surely if the data is available to both sides this makes it even? and how you analyze that data and plan accordingly would be the key.

Perhaps an option on the server for using echo stats would be the best of both worlds, so for any clan matches you could just disable the stat recording.

(rorgoroth) #13

[QUOTE=en2ie;427184]Surely if the data is available to both sides this makes it even? and how you analyze that data and plan accordingly would be the key.
[/QUOTE]

Indeed, it could maybe even give a whole new depth to planning strategy for ‘clan matches’ - not a bad thing imo.

(Dysfunkshion) #14

This would encourage mindgames. You can analyse your own weak points, work on it and if the enemy doesn’t know it’s not a weak point anymore, they might fall for it. However, this takes away part of preparing for major battles. I don’t know if it’s worth the trade off. I also dislike statistics if people can obsess over it.

(Ruben0s) #15

Analyzing the tactics of the enemy team… I got better things to do.

(Donnovan) #16

My point was about measures of the competition comunity.

Ways to classify players, clans, regions, event, a amount of time (christmas, for example) .

Measure use of complex features, easy features, tatics, measure styles. Measure use of controversial features, use of glitchs.

Measure success in danger situation, in easy situations.

Per player, per clan, per group of persons, per all, per SD.

Cut down discussions with Echo data handle. Correct misunderstanding with Echo data handle.

Submit questions about your Dirty Bomb clan or anything to know better about it.

(Falcon.PL) #17

Being able to turn Echo on on the server, so data would be saved on the server-side and containing only recordings of games played on that particular server… would be good for those, who want ppl to stick with their server… although it’s not what we globally want, as ppl would be more prone to chose server they expect to get less fun at, just because they’ve got stats counter on it, that they care about.

With somewhat sick local and somewhat costly global solutions - Echo will likely end up as a development tool exclusively. Though I agree it would be cool to have such rich data available… Cool but not at price of the actual game being worse, because it would be close to make no sense, and it’s very unlikely to be able to make it instead(at cost) of, maximally, no improve to the actual game. Assume Echo-programmer can also type other code, so it’s better if he will focus on a game bugs, rather than on Echo implementation for public servers.

Have a good day.

(iwound) #18

its not giving us any new information rather organising it into colorful blob form so our brains can see it more easily.
a teams flow through a level is only one form of tactics that you can see now in a limbo map.
the hardest part is coming up with the right questions to organise the relevant data.
I mean what is it apart from flow/position that will help you overcome your enemy.
maybe something you can’t see in a demo recording but is key to a success.

Once you know the question i expect translating that into a series of filters fairly easy.
hopefully the front end will be steampunk design.