Don't quit playing just because of Phantom

(avidCow) #41

I just imagined a game with 16 phantoms: everyone stands around and thinks the server is empty.[/quote]

This kind of thing literally happened in Killzone 3 MM. The marksman class could remain invisible indefinitely and had access to a OHK rifle and a tmp that would retain cloak while shooting. In TDM pre-made teams would all pick scout and immediately hide at the start of the round. Once they got in the lead with a few cheap kills they would remain in hiding, trying to run the clock down. Los of trash-talking from no-talent pricks, too. Worst design I’ve ever seen in a FPS.

(potty1) #42

I am “quitting” public play until the phantom problem is resolved. He is completely broken and brings more issues to the table than cheaters right now for me. You can kick cheaters without an issue. But kicking a player for a merc which is broken is wrong :frowning:

(Potato_Ladder) #43

There’s also a case of players who wish to support the team by playing medic in pubs(this includes all), whenever they’re in a game with Phantom on the opposite team they can not support the team properly since they always get one shot and finished by Phantom in CQC almost right away.

An example case would be recently that I shot Phantom till his cloak is down as Sparks but he’s already close enough to one hit me with his katana, not to mention that most players in pubs don’t care about their medic that much.

Either nerf his combat mechanics or give the medics extra self-defense capability I say.

Also your opinion are always welcome.

(B_Montiel) #44

You bloody nap l2p :smiley:
Suddenly, some voices arise from vets. Finally. I don’t feel alone anymore

(GeNKi) #45

awww

more issues than cheaters, you say ?

(Keldrath) #46

I tried playing for a bit, but the increase to aim punch made the gunplay feel like complete shit, and I’m one of the higher aim players, I noticed that shit like you wouldn’t believe and it drove me crazy. Not having Focus made it impossible to win a ton of engagements I otherwise would have because it was not possible to keep my aim on the target and hit where I needed to because the crosshair would immediately get thrown away every time I took damage. So it was either get the jump, or lose every firefight except against people who can’t even manage somewhat decent aim. It was a complete joke.

That on top of getting insta killed by invisible ninjas, who often wouldn’t render at all when invis, or even when they did, it didn’t matter because they could still get the initiation even if I initiated, just made me feel the devs have no idea what they are doing with this game. Combined with the statements they have made regarding these gamebreaking issues, I immediately quit out and uninstalled.

I was very excited and enjoying this game immensely when I found out about it a couple weeks ago. I was having a great time, but this patch literally killed the game in my eyes, and there’s no way I am returning unless the devs show me that they’ve got a clue what they are doing. And that will start by greatly reducing, or preferably removing aim punch, and by doing SOMETHING to Phantom so he doesn’t literally kill the game. The fact that he has access to the KEK-10 and Crotzni while being invisible with virtually NO recharge time for his cloak, is just a complete joke.

Phantom isn’t as bad as he could be at the moment, because people are still suiciding with their Katana constantly, but once they start to wise up and realize they have amazing guns, and an invisibility cloak to gain them the initiation on every firefight, that’s when it’s going to get completely disgusting.

(DMaster2) #47

I won’t quit, but i’m going to play a lot less for sure, just enough to get the credit bonuses and a few quests per day. But i won’t for sure play as much as before, because i’m not having fun anymore since Phantom is a thing.
I really enjoyed today a couple of games without phantoms in either teams, it was balanced and fun. Then a phantom joined, and it ruined the fun.

(Resine) #48

I am taking a break from DB since Phantom joined. I have played a couple of games yesterday, i have won everything except the last one, when i quit in the middle of the match because i was annoyed and bored getting killed by the same bloody katana.
There is nothing i can do to counter him, there is a lot of tiny places, alleys, corridors and if there is a phantom 10-15meters in front of me on his cloak, there is no possible way for me to survive. With his shield he has like 180 active HP, everything he needs is a leep, or 2 wall jumps to get me, afterwards is one slash of the sword and i am gone.

If i died 3 times in total from everything the game has + 13 times from katana alone, then i seriously have no fun playing this game. If i wanted to play with swords and force powers i would play Jedi instead.
The problem with the Phantom is that, everything he needs to do is using his utility abilities, camping corners of the map to get a lot of insta kills.
I had never any problems to counter any other glass, either the Nader, Rhino or the Fragger. You know why?> Because they had to shoot to kill me, and i could see their big heads.
But the invisible class that runs directly at you with 1 hit to kill Katana, with a lot of health, shield, speed is different story.

(Kalbuth) #49

I’ve had no such issue with him. 13 death to a phantom in a game? How do you do that?
He is easily spottable while moving, he makes noise… Shoot him as soon as spotted, that reduces his invisibility time. If he’s obv going for you, run away to a friendly. If you’re a squishy he won’t catch up…
Well, anyway, there’s plenty of things to do against him.
Does he sometimes 1 shoot you completely by surprise? Sure… sometimes. Exactly like I get 1-shot by a cooked fragger nade, a sniper headshot, an artillery strike, or a Nader when playing squishy.
Quitting because of this is waaaayyyyy overreacting.

When I read its description and the list of its advantages, I sure freak out and expect a huge OP merc. Thing is, I come in game… and I don’t see much issue. He probably could get with a reduction in its “damage window” when using the katana. The current one allows a missed strike to still kill, which shouldn’t happen. One could argue for the removal of the shield thing, but the sound + visibility kinda make it necessary. And since I’d really find a 100% invisible merc more annoying than the current Phantom, I’d prefere a slightly lower shield while keeping current visibility.

(Cynica) #50

So I reactivated my Nexon account to offer a little insight as I have played Phantom pretty extensively since his release. He is a powerful Merc, no one will deny that, but he is not overpowered. Let me lay it out here for you.

Phantom is a class that creates a significant threat to the enemy yes, and he also forces the enemy team to co-operate on spotting him, this is also true. This makes him a HIGHLY effective mercenary in public lobbies, and more or less useless in ranked play.

Against Rhino even with the melee bonus loadout takes 2 alt attacks or 3 regular melee swings. During this time more often than not Rhino will have gunned him down at close distance with his minigun.

Against Nader, one of what I believe to be the strongest mercs to date he is useless unless you alter his play-style entirely. Phantom is a melee oriented class, and Nader is a direct counter to this. Even if the Phantom does get the kill on the Nader, which is not likely, she can almost insta-gib him with her Martydom.

This is an example of just two of the most powerful against him.

TL;DR pay attention and play smart and you will have no problem against him. All this being said I believe if his cloak is to remain with the ability to act as a shield his base health should be lowered to 100.

(Resine) #51

[quote=“Kalbuth;42477”]I’ve had no such issue with him. 13 death to a phantom in a game? How do you do that?
[/quote]

I run with my Sawbones to the left side, i dodge fraggers nade i kill him, there is a medic behind him that tries to help i kill him as well, i reload my gun … BUUUH, katana in the back.

(DMaster2) #52

Easily spottable, meh. How exactly? Because i have an hard time spotting him without throwing sensors near me. I don’t hear any sound before i get backstabbed to death either.

(Eddie) #53

People complain because Phantom didn’t turn out they wanted him to be…

‘‘Oh hes not entirely invisible’’ ‘‘He can 1 shot kill’’ ‘‘His Cloak can tank damage’’ ‘‘He has too much Health’’

Just learn to deal with it and stop crying ur ways out guys… for real :l

(ghostBase) #54

I can deal with Nader because I can avoid the grenades and flank her
I can deal with Rhino because he’s slow and succumbs to light classes with shotguns quite easily

I can’t deal with phantom because it’s infuriating to die from a single hit from an enemy you can’t see and therefore can’t fight.
No one should be able to onehit-kill any merc above 80 HP.
Except MAYBE Vassili, in which case it’s your fault because he’s only effective when you stand around in open areas. Phantom doesn’t have these restrictions.

(GeNKi) #55

[quote=“ghostBase;42498”]I can deal with Nader because I can avoid the grenades and flank her
I can deal with Rhino because he’s slow and succumbs to light classes with shotguns quite easily

I can’t deal with phantom because it’s infuriating to die from a single hit from an enemy you can’t see and therefore can’t fight.
No one should be able to onehit-kill any merc above 80 HP.
Except MAYBE Vassili, in which case it’s your fault because he’s only effective when you stand around in open areas. Phantom doesn’t have these restrictions.[/quote]
No one should be able to onehit-kill any merc above 80HP
Except MAYBE Phantom, in which case it’s your fault because he’s only effective when you are 100% concentrating on single target / headless flanking and aren’t paying attention to your surroundings.

(Kalbuth) #56

[quote=“ghostBase;42498”]
I can’t deal with phantom because it’s infuriating to die from a single hit from an enemy you can’t see and therefore can’t fight.
No one should be able to onehit-kill any merc above 80 HP.[/quote]
How do you react to a Fragger cooked grenade insta-killing you without any way to counter? Is it infuriating you too?
Because the Fragger cooked nade is fullfilling ALL your “no one should do this” criterias, with the added bonus of being able to do it from concealement, away from your target who can’t even shoot at you. And he’s a merc with a BETTER weapon than Phantom, more base HP. By your definition, you should be pissed off no end by Fragger. I’ll suppose you are not, otherwise we would have posts about Fragger being OP. Why differentiating when it comes to Phantom?

(PurpleNurple) #57

Fragger has to cook the grenade, place it perfectly AND only gets 2 with a cool down. Don’t make such a stupid comparison please. The amount of practice needed to right click and move your mouse around a little is nothing compared to a nicely cooked/placed nade.

Fragger is a bit irritating when caught off guard but I’ve never felt any anger towards a nicely placed nade. If you get me it’s my fault and ill tell you in chat “nice nade”. A phantom yelling YOLO and beyblading the fuck out of everything around him is in no way shape or form comparable to a frag.

(Ghosthree3) #58

I really don’t know why we don’t get more Fragger OP threads. He’s clearly the most powerful merc. But I don’t think it’s a problem, he has his place and his reasons. Obviously not every merc can be equal to every other merc.

(Kalbuth) #59

[quote=“PurpleNurple;42525”]Fragger has to cook the grenade, place it perfectly AND only gets 2 with a cool down. Don’t make such a stupid comparison please. The amount of practice needed to right click and move your mouse around a little is nothing compared to a nicely cooked/placed nade.

Fragger is a bit irritating when caught off guard but I’ve never felt any anger towards a nicely placed nade. If you get me it’s my fault and ill tell you in chat “nice nade”. A phantom yelling YOLO and beyblading the fuck out of everything around him is in no way shape or form comparable to a frag.[/quote]1) Cook your grenade - that is, press mouse button
2) “place it perfectly” - lolwhat? this thing has a blast radius, you know? A pretty big one, btw

Practice? I main Fragger (he’s the only merc never going away from my squad), the “practice” is more about knowing map and gameflow to know where and when to use the nade for full effect. The act in itself is pretty easy.

About the way Phantom kills, I already wrote above : ‘He probably could get with a reduction in its “damage window” when using the katana. The current one allows a missed strike to still kill, which shouldn’t happen.’ That would solve your beyblading.
But tbh, a Fragger nade in the exact same spot than the Phantom doing his beyblading is going to do more damage than actual beyblading.

EDIT : apparently, from dev stream, Phantom shield was not intended that strong and is going to be tweaked

(RyePanda) #60

What if Bushwhacker’s turret could shoot him? That way Phantom has to be careful about looking for turrets, mines, and heartbeat sensors. I also agree that the armor shouldn’t absorb damage because that lets him use his katana to dominate whatever melee you have.