Don't quit playing just because of Phantom

[StubbornOldTroll38]

People who defend a completely op class are also the ones buying aimbot.
Any fair minded gamer wouldn’t defend this class as is or even close to its current state. I own the class and played it maby 10 matches and that’s it untill they balance it. I can kill half their team run off regen and go do it again all day with phantom. Quad kills all day long with barely a scratch on me what’s fair or fun in that?

[watsyurdeal]

[quote=“FaceMeat;49480”]People who defend a completely op class are also the ones buying aimbot.
Any fair minded gamer wouldn’t defend this class as is or even close to its current state. I own the class and played it maby 10 matches and that’s it untill they balance it. I can kill half their team run off regen and go do it again all day with phantom. Quad kills all day long with barely a scratch on me what’s fair or fun in that?[/quote]

Lot of assumptions there, and also doesn’t really mean much, because the skill level of the people you play with impacts the effectiveness of any merc.

If you play with a bunch of people who aren’t used to fighting Phantom, yea, you’ll wreck them. But against experienced players you’ll prob come up short.

just like proxy does, oh wait

And she gets dropped like a fly too if people actually know how to aim. You have to flank with her to get the most out of her abilities, or just stay near the objective.

Not only that, but a class built for close range should be able to get within said range reasonably well, 80-100 health wouldn’t do any good. 110 health would be better suited for him.

[Jojack]

[quote=“FaceMeat;49480”]People who defend a completely op class are also the ones buying aimbot.
Any fair minded gamer wouldn’t defend this class as is or even close to its current state. I own the class and played it maby 10 matches and that’s it untill they balance it. I can kill half their team run off regen and go do it again all day with phantom. Quad kills all day long with barely a scratch on me what’s fair or fun in that?[/quote]

While I agree with your opinion on Phantom, calling people who like him right now akin to aim botters is an unnecessary stretch.

[Jojack]

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;49490”]And she gets dropped like a fly too if people actually know how to aim. You have to flank with her to get the most out of her abilities, or just stay near the objective.

Not only that, but a class built for close range should be able to get within said range reasonably well, 80-100 health wouldn’t do any good. 110 health would be better suited for him.[/quote]

I don’t know, have you ever played Proxy or Kira or Sparks with chopper and just melee’d dudes? It’s pretty effective except against real good players. If they had cloak too, it could be totally viable.

I agree though, 100 or 110 health would be fine. Just make sure his speed corresponds with his health this time around.

[watsyurdeal]

[quote=“Jojack;49493”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;49490”]And she gets dropped like a fly too if people actually know how to aim. You have to flank with her to get the most out of her abilities, or just stay near the objective.

Not only that, but a class built for close range should be able to get within said range reasonably well, 80-100 health wouldn’t do any good. 110 health would be better suited for him.[/quote]

I don’t know, have you ever played Proxy or Kira or Sparks with chopper and just melee’d dudes? It’s pretty effective except against real good players. If they had cloak too, it could be totally viable.

I agree though, 100 or 110 health would be fine. Just make sure his speed corresponds with his health this time around.

[/quote]

Dirty Bomb Wiki

His speed is about the same as Sawbonez and Bushwacka, but Nader and Fletcher are faster. And of course he’s outsped by mercs like Kira and Proxy, his speed is actually pretty average. And it needs to be, his katana really is like his second ability, it’s arguably his trademark.

[N8o]

[quote=“Jojack;49405”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;49373”]We’d accept it if he was the only annoying merc…the fact is other mercs are annoying in their own ways, and some mercs aren’t, it just depends on the player.

Come on man, we’ve been over this a million times. I respect your ability to discuss stuff with people who disagree with you without it turning into a flame fest but it seems like we have this same conversation every couple of days haha.

The reason he is, by far, the most annoying merc in the game to a vast majority of its players is simple…he requires way less skill than all the other mercs you mention. Lots of Fraggers out there, very few are any good at cooking and placing nades. Lots of Vassilis out there, very few are good enough to even notice you are playing against them. Lots of Rhinos out there, none are effective or annoying without a healer (and then we are talking about a 2 merc combo being as annoying as a single merc that requires no skill.)

The list goes on. People hate Vassili, but can accept him in the game because it’s rare to run into one skilled enough to effect games. People hate Phantom but CAN’T accept him because he requires no skill with his current spec.

People don’t like being consistently killed in this type of game by players of lesser skill simply because of the merc they are using.
[/quote]

You’re honestly telling me classes like Aura take skill? To just plop down a station and sit on it? Or Rhino? How about Fragger, how hard is it to cook a nade and throw it just before someone comes around a corner? Or hell even Sawbonez, how hard is it to revive people and throw down packs?

You could argue that all day long and I’d still say he’s no more annoying than any other merc. And on top of that, each class is easy to pick up and use, and each one has their own aspects that make them hard to master against smarter players.

He has his quirks but the vast majority of the time I die to him personally, is if I am already lit, or if I was outnumbered. Any other time I have no issues with Phantom. So I think people need to stop assuming circumstances are the same for everyone else.

I understand why he frustrates people, and I already said it a thousand times before, the issue is the shield, it offers zero counter play. And if he has trouble getting into range without it well Splash simply needs to pick a poison and choose what is better for the game. A guy who can fully cloak but easy to take down when he’s spotted, or a guy who basically has a second health bar but easier to spot, meaning he’s useless in organized play where people can see him coming from a good distance.

[/quote]

There is a difference between playing a medic, and being a good medic.

[HeadStrikeR]

I made it a habit when i see Phantom come to me cloaked i make him believe he can get me and then run straight past him, so he misses his strike and let my teammates help me finish him off. Works not always, but most of the time.

[Jojack]

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;49498”][quote=“Jojack;49493”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;49490”]And she gets dropped like a fly too if people actually know how to aim. You have to flank with her to get the most out of her abilities, or just stay near the objective.

Not only that, but a class built for close range should be able to get within said range reasonably well, 80-100 health wouldn’t do any good. 110 health would be better suited for him.[/quote]

I don’t know, have you ever played Proxy or Kira or Sparks with chopper and just melee’d dudes? It’s pretty effective except against real good players. If they had cloak too, it could be totally viable.

I agree though, 100 or 110 health would be fine. Just make sure his speed corresponds with his health this time around.

[/quote]

Dirty Bomb Wiki

His speed is about the same as Sawbonez and Bushwacka, but Nader and Fletcher are faster. And of course he’s outsped by mercs like Kira and Proxy, his speed is actually pretty average. And it needs to be, his katana really is like his second ability, it’s arguably his trademark.

[/quote]

Yeah but all those mercs you mentioned have 110HP and he has 120HP. I’m just saying they need to fix that HP/speed ratio. If he keeps the 120HP and loses the shield, he better have his move speed decreased to Skyhammer speed.

If they move him down to 110 or 100 HP, he can keep the speed he has now.

[KayDubz]

[quote=“Jojack;49405”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;49373”]We’d accept it if he was the only annoying merc…the fact is other mercs are annoying in their own ways, and some mercs aren’t, it just depends on the player.

Come on man, we’ve been over this a million times. I respect your ability to discuss stuff with people who disagree with you without it turning into a flame fest but it seems like we have this same conversation every couple of days haha.

The reason he is, by far, the most annoying merc in the game to a vast majority of its players is simple…he requires way less skill than all the other mercs you mention. Lots of Fraggers out there, very few are any good at cooking and placing nades. Lots of Vassilis out there, very few are good enough to even notice you are playing against them. Lots of Rhinos out there, none are effective or annoying without a healer (and then we are talking about a 2 merc combo being as annoying as a single merc that requires no skill.)

The list goes on. People hate Vassili, but can accept him in the game because it’s rare to run into one skilled enough to effect games. People hate Phantom but CAN’T accept him because he requires no skill with his current spec.

People don’t like being consistently killed in this type of game by players of lesser skill simply because of the merc they are using.
[/quote]

You’re honestly telling me classes like Aura take skill? To just plop down a station and sit on it? Or Rhino? How about Fragger, how hard is it to cook a nade and throw it just before someone comes around a corner? Or hell even Sawbonez, how hard is it to revive people and throw down packs?

You could argue that all day long and I’d still say he’s no more annoying than any other merc. And on top of that, each class is easy to pick up and use, and each one has their own aspects that make them hard to master against smarter players.

He has his quirks but the vast majority of the time I die to him personally, is if I am already lit, or if I was outnumbered. Any other time I have no issues with Phantom. So I think people need to stop assuming circumstances are the same for everyone else.

I understand why he frustrates people, and I already said it a thousand times before, the issue is the shield, it offers zero counter play. And if he has trouble getting into range without it well Splash simply needs to pick a poison and choose what is better for the game. A guy who can fully cloak but easy to take down when he’s spotted, or a guy who basically has a second health bar but easier to spot, meaning he’s useless in organized play where people can see him coming from a good distance.

[/quote]
You really dont get it.

Fragger may have super strong nades that can rape a whole squad. But he ONLY has two…and they have a 30 second recharge (pretty lengthy time if you ask me). Imagine if Fragger had 3 nades with 10 second cooldowns? There would be an uproar if an update was made doing that.

Hel1, people hate the Nader spam…but the devs made her nades weak because of her low cooldown and the fact that she has 5 nades.

Phantom of the other hand has a ridiculously short ability cooldown under 10 seconds…which means he can easily go in and out of being invisible-tank mode. Fixing him is as simple as giving him a suitable cooldown just like every other merc…and limiting or removing the shield.

[KayDubz]

[quote=“FaceMeat;49480”]People who defend a completely op class are also the ones buying aimbot.
Any fair minded gamer wouldn’t defend this class as is or even close to its current state. I own the class and played it maby 10 matches and that’s it untill they balance it. I can kill half their team run off regen and go do it again all day with phantom. Quad kills all day long with barely a scratch on me what’s fair or fun in that?[/quote]
Agree with this.

I could buy Phantom, but I dont want to be unfair or be a hypocrite. I already do well enough in the game because I use decent strategy…which makes up for average aim. I already know how to get behind the enemy or into their spawn unnoticed and get kills before dying.

Id be devastating if I had phantom. There have been times where Ive gotten behind the enemy with Proxy, Vas, or Fragger…and spent more than a few minutes getting kills before someone could catch on to my retreat pattern. If I had invisibility and a shield, Id be getting 10 kills easily before dying just once near their respawn or choke point.

[watsyurdeal]

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;49410”][quote=“Jojack;49405”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;49373”]We’d accept it if he was the only annoying merc…the fact is other mercs are annoying in their own ways, and some mercs aren’t, it just depends on the player.

Come on man, we’ve been over this a million times. I respect your ability to discuss stuff with people who disagree with you without it turning into a flame fest but it seems like we have this same conversation every couple of days haha.

The reason he is, by far, the most annoying merc in the game to a vast majority of its players is simple…he requires way less skill than all the other mercs you mention. Lots of Fraggers out there, very few are any good at cooking and placing nades. Lots of Vassilis out there, very few are good enough to even notice you are playing against them. Lots of Rhinos out there, none are effective or annoying without a healer (and then we are talking about a 2 merc combo being as annoying as a single merc that requires no skill.)

The list goes on. People hate Vassili, but can accept him in the game because it’s rare to run into one skilled enough to effect games. People hate Phantom but CAN’T accept him because he requires no skill with his current spec.

People don’t like being consistently killed in this type of game by players of lesser skill simply because of the merc they are using.
[/quote]

You’re honestly telling me classes like Aura take skill? To just plop down a station and sit on it? Or Rhino? How about Fragger, how hard is it to cook a nade and throw it just before someone comes around a corner? Or hell even Sawbonez, how hard is it to revive people and throw down packs?

You could argue that all day long and I’d still say he’s no more annoying than any other merc. And on top of that, each class is easy to pick up and use, and each one has their own aspects that make them hard to master against smarter players.

He has his quirks but the vast majority of the time I die to him personally, is if I am already lit, or if I was outnumbered. Any other time I have no issues with Phantom. So I think people need to stop assuming circumstances are the same for everyone else.

I understand why he frustrates people, and I already said it a thousand times before, the issue is the shield, it offers zero counter play. And if he has trouble getting into range without it well Splash simply needs to pick a poison and choose what is better for the game. A guy who can fully cloak but easy to take down when he’s spotted, or a guy who basically has a second health bar but easier to spot, meaning he’s useless in organized play where people can see him coming from a good distance.

[/quote]
You really dont get it.

Fragger may have super strong nades that can rape a whole squad. But he ONLY has two…and they have a 30 second recharge (pretty lengthy time if you ask me). Imagine if Fragger had 3 nades with 10 second cooldowns? There would be an uproar if an update was made doing that.

Hel1, people hate the Nader spam…but the devs made her nades weak because of her low cooldown and the fact that she has 5 nades.

Phantom of the other hand has a ridiculously short ability cooldown under 10 seconds…which means he can easily go in and out of being invisible-tank mode. Fixing him is as simple as giving him a suitable cooldown just like every other merc…and limiting or removing the shield.[/quote]

No I get it just fine, but you don’t seem to understand that Phantom is only as good as the enemy team allows him to be. So if you have a team full of decent players who are adapted Phantom quite well, he’s not nearly as easy to play as you think. You’ll prob average out to the same number of kills you’d get with any other class.

So the whole argument that he’s easier to use really falls short because the reality is any decent player can use ANY merc and make them seem overpowered to people who aren’t accustomed to them yet.

In the times I’ve dealt with Phantom I’ve never had any trouble with him, so I really don’t understand what is so complicated. The only instance I’ve seen him be bullshit is the armor, as I have said countless times.

[quote=“Kay-Dubz;49611”]
I could buy Phantom, but I dont want to be unfair or be a hypocrite. I already do well enough in the game because I use decent strategy…which makes up for average aim. I already know how to get behind the enemy or into their spawn unnoticed and get kills before dying.[/quote]

And you just need to shut up, go play him first against low level players, then play on a min level 10 server, get a good amount of time then come back.

Otherwise you can’t say a damn thing about him because you don’t have the whole picture. Victim side and user side are completely different.

[OmaGretel]

No I get it just fine, but you don’t seem to understand that Phantom is only as good as the enemy team allows him to be. So if you have a team full of decent players who are adapted Phantom quite well, he’s not nearly as easy to play as you think. You’ll prob average out to the same number of kills you’d get with any other class.

Well that’s the whole point, in my opinion. A good player can use any merc and do (more or less) equally good. But a bad player can use Phantom to be much better than he would be with any other merc.

[Lautreamont]

The only thing I want is a different sound for cloaked Phantom when they are allies. I’m becoming paranoiac.

The only problem with Phantom is that new players can wreck new players easily. It’s no fun for them (and beybladding). The KEK-10 is a bit too much, but he’s supposed to be good at killing. Melee only Phantom are retarded. I know it’s frustrating to be killed by one, but think bigger. In the end, most Phantoms are kinda useless for their team. It’s like a really good Vaseline when attacking. So yeah he killed 56 guys and died 4 times, but the 12/15 proxy and 1/13 Sawbones won the game too (I know it’s an exaggeration but you see my point.)

In the end, Phantom is a shinny pub hero. I personally don’t have any problem with him.

tl;dr git gud

[AlphaUT]

I don’t have any problem with Phantom
( personal opinion)

1. Phantom can’t just walk in front of people while using his ability, which makes me have no idea why people complaining about his shield and speed, because a real team, even though we don’t know each other, knows how to talk, aim, tell the spot. Those who keep saying Phantom is too OP, for me it is more like there are no teamwork between them and that allows Phantom have chance to kill one and then hide somewhere to looking for another free kill from behind which becomes a difficult situation for the team that made by the teammate who did not even say " a Phantom is in xxxxx, bh you guys" Moreover, I see a lot of players just trying to push as much as they can which makes when a Phantom have chance to get BH your team and that back the my point —no warning. Maybe only 1 or 2 player take care of objective, but that is not enough when you see your teammates are in the front line and didn’t realize a Phantom got a chance to get BH you, I do have a lot of experience against Phantom with good and bad teammates (communications), also sometimes typing is not good enough in a emergency situation. (About the voice chat, I saw another discussion, you might find it in general)

2. About his ability, people do know Vassili’s ability can cancel Phantom’s ability right ? I only had few games that play without Vassili, no matter in enemy team or my team. Ask Vassili to drop a heartbeat sensor behind the team or the place that team can’t take care well is a basic tip, and that becomes a surprise for Phantom who normally running with Katana while you hear the sound of detected someone at some place that you think nobody should be there. When Phantom press any key that can be considering as an attack, the ability will be cancel. Also player can looking for a spot that can easily to see if Phantom is coming or not, his ability is just make him harder to be see, not 100% invisible.

3. Shield – it only works when he did not attack which makes him does no dmg when he’s in that situation while player can move to other spot------shoot him while moving

As result of my opinion, it is more like players are lack of exp to against Phantom and lack of teamwork

( there still have something that can support my point, but too lazy to type with cellphone …)

But hey, when Rhino arrived, didn’t a lot of players complaining about he is way too OP, especially during his free rotation time, however we still find a way to against him right? Maybe players can find a good way to against Phantom too. Don’t quit the game just because of the Phantom, it only makes you don’t have enough exp to against him and be cool when feel your team will be lose, it does no harm to your account. Feel free to leave a comment

ps. I have to say, “Win # of StopWatch or Objective” is most unpopular mission in the game )

[Nail]

psst, nobody quit because of Phantom, player numbers haven’t changed, same thing with Rhino. lol, even on Steam the people crying about Phantom are low hour players who are getting flamed by high hour players who figured out Phantom is actually quite weak as he’s mostly situational and a bunch have also figured out there’s a couple slightly broken aspects in abilities more than being OP, I’m happy to say those aspects are going to be fixed but he’s here to stay

[KawaiiPower9000]

there are no op mercs they all have a counter.
he is only good in cqc it does not take much to take down if he is out of cqc range well placed shotgun rounds drop him really fast he is easily visible in daylight heartbeat sensor also works for team to easily see his location. i don’t see why so many complaints about him it is not justifiable.

[Jojack]

psst, nobody quit because of Phantom, player numbers haven’t changed, same thing with Rhino. lol, even on Steam the people crying about Phantom are low hour players who are getting flamed by high hour players who figured out Phantom is actually quite weak as he’s mostly situational and a bunch have also figured out there’s a couple slightly broken aspects in abilities more than being OP, I’m happy to say those aspects are going to be fixed but he’s here to stay

psst, player numbers are supposed to be growing right now. And also, pssst, they have actually dropped by a couple thousand since Phantom was released. Also, psst, I have 351 hours logged and I think Phantom is a terribly designed piece of shit, hope they make him require a lot more skill rewarded with a more powerful picking ability.

Also, psst, I agree with the rest of your post.

[Nail]

it’s a good thing no one gives the south end of a north bound rat what either of us think

[watsyurdeal]

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;49633”] No I get it just fine, but you don’t seem to understand that Phantom is only as good as the enemy team allows him to be. So if you have a team full of decent players who are adapted Phantom quite well, he’s not nearly as easy to play as you think. You’ll prob average out to the same number of kills you’d get with any other class.

Well that’s the whole point, in my opinion. A good player can use any merc and do (more or less) equally good. But a bad player can use Phantom to be much better than he would be with any other merc.[/quote]

If that were true then all of the Katana happy Phantoms would be at the top of the scoreboard, but lately that’s been changing, they’ve been around the middle roughly, because people are adapting to how the class works. Just exactly like what happened with Rhino, Nader, and so on. Really the skill level of the player will affect how good the Merc is, regardless of how cheap you think it is on the receiving end.

[StubbornOldTroll38]

My son loves the phantom because it’s free kills all day, he’s 17. We need adults only servers in mmo’s , 26+ anyway and then the children can run around with their katanas on their servers and hack and slash while the rest of us play the game. If you play phantom and don’t accept that there’s a balance issue ATM, you are who I’m speaking to . I can see potential for the phantom , but in his current state the only place for him is on those maps with dumpsters out back where he fits nicely inside.