This is my feedback on the 2nd Object.
Dome feedback.
tokamak
(tokamak)
#2
Had lots of awesome drama in that Ark building! Good call! While we’re at it might as well give the defenders their wrecked church as defense.
Glottis-3D
(Glottis-3D)
#3
Feedback on the trick routes on the Dome:
most of the trick routes are useless. they just bring you from point A to point B, and not even necessarily quiker than usual routes.
tricks should give you advangate.
they should put you into a great position, or bring you faster to the fight.
also 90% or the trick routes are in the safe zone far away from actual fight-zones.
this is not very demanding and very quickly gets boring.
the REAL trick routes, that are skill-demanding are thouse that demand tricks DURING a fight. take for example Quake. lots of lots of chain strafejumpnig and doublejumping combined with rocket jumping and all of that DURING a fight!!
tokamak
(tokamak)
#4
[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;511216]most of the trick routes are useless. they just bring you from point A to point B, and not even necessarily quiker than usual routes.
tricks should give you advangate.
they should put you into a great position, or bring you faster to the fight.[/QUOTE]
Mainly fights should be happening through them. A quick hop - hop- wall jump - hop should get you out of harms way or get your knife up somebody’s throat.
Glottis-3D
(Glottis-3D)
#5
some thoughts on 1st Objective.
first of all in order to lessen spawnrape by defenders when ramp is not yet constructed, and electrocar-OBJ is also not made yet. We can have a window so that snipers can help to clear this building (this building with electrocar-BJ and route to the main OBJ)
second of all. i dont like how the secondary (NOT necessary object) is so close to the main object. why would one even bother to carry this to the electro car.
this accumulator should much closer to the secondary object.
my 3rd thought is that defenders have a very nice spot to cover both objects in 1 place.
but this spot is very far from the spawn, so i suggest to make a similar Cover-2-OBJs spot closer to the def sawn. but ofcourse this spot shouldnt be as abusive.
the best place for it is some windows over here:
defenders should be able to clear the obj-area, and not just be spawn camped by attackers after plant (100% of the games on this stage are like this.)
Glottis-3D
(Glottis-3D)
#6
tokamak
(tokamak)
#8
This building is peculiar. It would be really useful for defenders to hold as it gives a vantage point over the main routes. Yet it’s mainly dominated by the attackers who have access to the roof. I think that’s what can create a really fun dynamic.
Let the attackers keep their access to the roof but give the defenders a first floor to control the building.
It’s a really messy sketch. Would be easier if I could fly through the map. Anyway, the red stuff is supposed to represent the area covered by the vantage point for defenders and the blue stuff is the added construction needed to make the building useful for the defenders.
Glottis-3D
(Glottis-3D)
#9
what is this building? not realy getting where is it (cannot look in game atm.)
Glottis-3D
(Glottis-3D)
#11
oh, yea. the middle stage.
i havent yet formed final thoughts on this part of the map.
i am thinking about forward spawn somewhere aroound that stage.
i am thinking about defenders forward spawn that is capped by default after 1st stage
and this whole area as a 1st strong line of defence on 2nd object
tokamak
(tokamak)
#12
A fw spawn there would be amazing. Hadn’t even considered that.
The big problem from my (very few) session is that it’s a really cool area that’s sorely underutilised. People just dash past it without ever having to control any ground.
Glottis-3D
(Glottis-3D)
#13
[QUOTE=tokamak;511419]A fw spawn there would be amazing. Hadn’t even considered that.
The big problem from my (very few) session is that it’s a really cool area that’s sorely underutilised. People just dash past it without ever having to control any ground.[/QUOTE]
yep at the moment this is a whole area, that can be skipped as unnecessary. and is usually skipped. by both attackers and defenders.
and i think changes with “the Ark”-type building and forward spawn for the defs will turn everything into awesomeness.
not only will defs now have a meaningful object to defend (Spawn) but also they will have a more flexible frontline. covering all the area.
while def spawn is active - i think defs will spawn around last OBJ. a little bit behind it.
was running around the map last night. i think def-FW should in the “right” (attacker’s POV) building near the ammo box.
Glottis-3D
(Glottis-3D)
#14
this is some pics on the Def spawn-idea:
attackers will go this way (apart from usual ways - blow door or central route.)
i think that this place given to defenders is making them way too strong.
there is a spawn to capture. maybe some additional layout needs to be added there for proper spawn fights
but defs still need to have high ground points on this building for first minuts of 2nd object fights.
so they can have a window over there:
tokamak
(tokamak)
#15
I’ll have to re-check it inside the map again but all I can say is that I really like the idea of attackers having high routes that only benefit them.
onYn
(onYn)
#17
Haven´t played it too much yet, and not going to give specific feedback, but god (compared to others) I love this map. Going different routes gave me a different experience and I didn´t experience any uber repetitive experience like I usually do while playing DB. I am not sure, but I feel like positioning is more rewarding, and picking the right positions on the objectives could finally make a difference as well.
Violator
(Violator)
#18
I have mixed feelings about Dome, mainly good ones :).
Plus points
Totally non-linear. Multiple routes to each objective, even a choice of first objective :).
Wide open spaces to fight in, most of the other maps suffer from ‘corridor syndrome’.
Split first objective is a nice concept.
Nice verticality which is rare in the other maps.
Trick-jump routes.
Works well with large teams (the other maps don’t work for more than 5v5 imho).
Minus Points
Not really a bad point, but it needs at least 6v6 to be playable as its actually too big for anything less.
Easy to get lost initially between the first and second objectives. Of course its a blockout so there are no visual clues in yet.
MG on first objective is OP. The ramp is very hard to build without getting mowed down from the high ground. Ramp is still a bit awkward to get onto.
The ladder is broken behind that MG - half way up you do a 180’ for some reason and end up facing the wrong way at the top.
The roof above the left-hand gate objective is very OP for defense. Single ladder to access and easy to hide behind the eaves to heal up and defend the gate from being blown. I would make it flat and at least allow players on the ground to shoot back.
Gates take too long to blow and too easy to fix.
Last objective is too easy to defend for a decent team. They have all the high ground and attack only has two entrances, both past MGs in very strong positions.
Would like to see attack have some exclusive high ground attack options (defense have plenty).
Other suggestions
Would be nice to open up the ‘sewer level’ a bit more - currently they are just shortcuts and no fighting ever takes place there.
A capturable forward spawn for attack on the second objective would be good (outside the right-hand gate area, or in the left-gate building once that gate has been blown).
spookify
(spookify)
#19
Is every map a dyno plant OR taking an obj to a point?
Was SD trying to capture the feel of RTCW “Base”
All Objective in this game blow and are uncreative and a HUGE step back from other games!
If Dome was played Like Base it might be EPIC…
My Idea = Make it into RTCW Base or close to it…
I personally think some classes are too fast… SD can chew that over for a bit… And Im not qqing about it just saying with the current Guns, ROF, Spread and all that jazz it makes the game feel like Luck and spray and pray… It could just be the acceleration of the player… Poof gone out of my crosshair… This could be the warp feeling we all get…
Anywho DOME… Sometimes simple is better! Its about time SD starts thinking about team play… Which has totally disappeared from this game… I would call DB a swarm and spam game right now… Just keep spawning and attacking until you magically land an enemy spawn time that is to your advantage…
SD is making maps that are sooo complex that they fail! Some times its as simple as two objs… Defend both as long as you can but never give up both and fall back to the most defend-able.
Yet again I bring up the fact that SD only has a few “NOT” Fun Objective styles… We have ZERO one way doors, ZERO DOC runs where the grab is in enemy spawn and you have to take it back to an area close to your spawn, Zero Forward Spawn Grabs and the biggest:
ZERO Objectives that Make sense with the map layout!!!
Example:
NO - Blowing Gates up to advance (Train)
Sitting in a Room WTF??? (CW) (Blow Something up for Put a Forward Spawn Flag In the Room!!!)
Some of thee other maps are EV repair and its hard to screw that up… And Terminal is a wall Blow However Forward Spawn SUCKS ASS!!
Whats the deal with just sitting in an area to accomplish something? Was it the easiest to code for SD? Pooooor…
tokamak
(tokamak)
#20
[QUOTE=spookify;511977]Is every map a dyno plant OR taking an obj to a point?
Was SD trying to capture the feel of RTCW “Base”
All Objective in this game blow and are uncreative and a HUGE step back from other games!
[/QUOTE]
When testing a map it’s difficult to put your finger on whether it’s the lay-out or the exotic objective mechanics you just invented. Underground used to be about hacking but the objective functioned in a weird way which muddied the test results.
I think they mainly see those two objectives as the archetypical objective types, good placeholders to test the map around. That way they can compare all maps and they know it’s not due to some weird rule. The reasoning is that if a map doesn’t work for explosives and travel objectives then it’s not going to work for any other objective either.