Does phantom need adjustment?

(Nervous) #21

I think he is the worst merc of the bunch tbh.

Ineffective everything, sparks is better at jumping around and slashing people tbh.

(Naonna) #22

Update upon seeing Amerika’s video. (pre-patch https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPOPfz4vhMf9F0O1FCvPQrA here.)

I can see why some people advocate that Phantom’s armor’s cool down be buffed rather than his invisibility. - In some play styles, the once-short cool down allowed for attack first tactics to shield damage: even if Phantom was quite visible in the process, his health was ‘safe’ until he retaliated with a head shot while the opponent’s weapon spread was widened. Said armor also helped him survive crossing sight lines, even when spotted. - The cool down in that play style was intended to keep the cool down under 4 seconds at MOST - to aid in quickly activating and deactivating the armor.

I still would prefer him become a speedster with better escape options, lower cool down, and less reliance on waiting for his armor’s cool down to reset before being able to attack again. Personally, I would have liked a stronger invisibility at the cost of the armor, but obviously, there are alternative ways to play Phantom.

That being said, splash damage has multiple ways they could change him. It’s hard to be sure what play style to cater to: the players who want a less visible cloak, or a more durable shield while under the armor’s effects. Currently, both sides wish they could use the cloak more often in a shorter time span: that much seems clear.

(hoyes) #23

I have changed my mind and have decided this:
The emp presently that is linked to phantoms armor is stupid. It just gives away your postion, and doesnt even provide much benefit as as soon as you die after going through a couple of deployables, the effect wears off, leaving them untouched. I suggest making the emp turn into a deployabke fryer, as in it completely destroys them. Then you seperate it from the refractive armor give it back its old cooldown and buff its stealth aspects. We could call the new ability ‘disruption pulse’, as i it is a simple 10m pulse that is on a 25 sec cooldown that destrys all deployables in its radius.

(hoyes) #24

@Szakalot If people are so scared of promoting katana play styles by buffing his speed then nerf the katana. Make i borderline useless at killing in order to put people off using it.This would also stop kiratanas. The katana was not supposed to be a weapon to be used by itself, nor phantom a melee oriented character. The devs said this themselves.

(Szakalot) #25

and it isnt, seeing as its very poor against anyone halfgood, you can’t force people to play a certain way, and nerfing a playstyle just because someone doesn’t like it spells disaster for game’s replayability.

(Drac0rion) #26

Isn’t melee already weak enough in this game? I mean it’s only strong and still weaker than shotguns in certain maps that are more close range combat focused.

Phantom’s not going to get better stealth due to counterplay issues it would include. What Phantom needs is intel on the enemy, to sneak by the corner of their eyes how he’s supposed to. Not just activate pixel cloak and waltz right through the middle of the street.

Play Phantom in combination with another recon merc that is great at spotting and see how much easier sneaking around becomes. But having a merc limit of 5, Phantom without his own spotting tool will never see competitive play unless he gets overbuffed.

(hoyes) #27

Well all im saying is that there are too many low levels that use the katana only playstyle because they think that is how phantom is supposed to be played, probabaly due to his card pictures and the merc role call which makes people think hes like the spy from tf2. I just want people to stop using the katana and use their guns.

(Naonna) #28

Have him spot everyone in his EMP range upon decloak for five seconds? I dunno. - Doesn’t help him while in cloak: spotting someone notifies them of it.

(Bluepanda) #29

Was going to say something. Nvm

(JJMAJR) #30

Remove EMP, give Phantom a spotting or an Assault ability, and revert cooldown for cloak to pre-EMP. All Phantom could counter right now (in a useful manner) is Fletcher. Other than that he’s garbage.

Phantom could have Comms hack, throwing knives, just anything besides a stupid, situational ability.

(Naonna) #31

The EMP is actually not a bad tool: I personally like that I no longer have to fear for deployables when moving around as Phantom, now. The problem is, for me, with a hit and run play style, I can’t move around unless I’m walking VERY slowly. - Even a proxy could probably get to places Phantom can’t, just due to her move speed.

Edit: Also, dat 7 second minimum cool down and movement-based meter rather than a timer-based meter for armor duration. (see my other posts for more in-depth reasoning)

(JJMAJR) #32

[quote=“Naonna;194675”]The EMP is actually not a bad tool: I personally like that I no longer have to fear for deployables when moving around as Phantom, now. The problem is, for me, with a hit and run play style, I can’t move around unless I’m walking VERY slowly. - Even a proxy could probably get to places Phantom can’t, just due to her move speed.

Edit: Also, dat 7 second minimum cool down and movement-based meter rather than a timer-based meter for armor duration. (see my other posts for more in-depth reasoning)[/quote]

If you are worrying about deployables that bad, destroy them. It’s easy enough that a Phantom isn’t really needed to take out Bushwhackers, Proxies, and Rhinos.

(Naonna) #33

(mainly, it’s the proxy mines when i’m trying to get behind. the EMP helps with ‘toggle on and no worries’)

(becomingModel) #34

Refractive armor is too visible and noisy and sadly it can’t fend off that much damage with it, and veteran players can easily kill phantom

Remove The instant 7 seconds cooldown… you’re cloak is quite noticable, but bad enough it has a cooldown of 7-13 seconds; once you cloak you have to make the most out of it

(yesser) #35

so theoriquly if we want phontom to be better we can:

  • make him less visible (and maybe les noisy ?) so you can now through the emp he is here but you dont know where so you just stay in defencive stat from him or his team without having any defencive abilty as health stations or you just shoot walls without touching him but that would waste bullets and probably useless (maybe no if you’re with rhino )
  • make his emp as a bomb or a pulse so you can flank the ennemy defence throw the emp grenade and start shooting while your team come too or the same idea with the pulse but that would make phontom need to be in danger to use the emp and that would also make him more vulnerable to mines when flanking
  • or both :x
(Naonna) #36

I would advise giving another character a throw-able ability that explodes. We have more than a few of those already.

(JJMAJR) #37

I still disapprove of the goddamn EMP ability. Such an ability would be easily seen through and any time that Phantom would use such an ability, other players would be able to see through that garbage and shoot him, or shoot any explosive device that is lying around him. This is especially true in friendly-fire-active games.

[spoiler]Phantom’s a recon, and he could use spotting. It gets much easier to sneak around and play strategically if you can see everyone on the map.

One of the gimmicks that I would find to be a great idea would be the Comms Hack ability, which works best when Phantom is playing intelligently and not using his goddamn weaboo sword. Fuck everyone responsible for making Phantom use Cricket Bat/Katana.

Phantom using the Comms Hack ability would be able to detect everything on the map for around 8 seconds, with a cooldown of over 60 seconds. This ability also needs a dead corpse to get a connection going, otherwise Comms Hack would be extremely broken.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Or, as another option, Phantom could have throwing knives. These knives still could detect enemies and cause them to become debilitated, for around 10 seconds. 3 uses, 36 damage, and around a 15 second cooldown could work with a weapon that has a projectile arc and zero blast radius.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]His offensive prowess is basically being able to tank damage more easily.

Hell, it even looks like he could have a riot shield that would fit in with his character. If both refractive armor and the riot shield share the same cooldown meter then I could see some fun applications for that ability. And what the heck, the shield is extremely weak if it used the same hitpoint algorithm as the cloak.[/spoiler]

Or, Phantom could use an explosive. Either Thunder’s old flashbang or something new, like a spotting grenade.

So that makes four (plus) options. Either Phantom’s a recon, or an assault, but either way he shouldn’t be a crutch for anyone that can’t learn to shoot Bushwhacker’s turrets or Proxy’s mines. That’s like saying he’s supposed to be a crutch for anyone that can’t learn to help out his team, and we all know how that went.

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(UndeddJester) #38

[quote=“JJMAJR;195517”]I still disapprove of the goddamn EMP ability. Such an ability would be easily seen through and any time that Phantom would use such an ability, other players would be able to see through that garbage and shoot him, or shoot any explosive device that is lying around him. This is especially true in friendly-fire-active games.

Or, Phantom could use an explosive. Either Thunder’s old flashbang or something new, like a spotting grenade.

So that makes four (plus) options. Either Phantom’s a recon, or an assault, but either way he shouldn’t be a crutch for anyone that can’t learn to shoot Bushwhacker’s turrets or Proxy’s mines. That’s like saying he’s supposed to be a crutch for anyone that can’t learn to help out his team, and we all know how that went.

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I have to disagree, the EMP serves multiple puposes for assisting Phantoms kit.

It isn’t providing a crutch for you to slip past turrets and mines, it is allowing you to ignore them. Rather than having to stop and deal with the these deployables, your EMP disables them, buying you the time you need to straight up kill that Bushwhacker, Aura or Proxy without them receiving prior warning. Sure if they see their deplyable go down they know, but that is much harder to spot than someone firing their gun at them or throwing a grenade at them.

The EMP also plays a psychological game with players, it is similar to the effect the spy had in TF2. A good Phantom creates paranoia amoung the team, they see their deployables go down and they start looking around for the Phantom instead of watching what their enemies are doing.

Phantoms biggest problem right now is he needs mad coordination, as has no real means of taking on multiple foes. With his surprise attack he can take on virtually anyone 1vs1, especially if they aren’t looking at him, but this is a team game, and finding 1vs1 encounters is rare…

Being able to use his cloak and EMP independantly would greatly increase his ability to coordinate with his team, and would be the greatest counter to deployable heavy teams. Unlike using explosives that have to hit deployables directly, a team sporting a Phantom can push on people with impunity as he can affect all deployables around him all at once, saving explosives and such for the enemy team themselves.

(JJMAJR) #39

No, a skilled player could just destroy the Phantom (or any push involving a Phantom) by simply killing him via shooting whatever explosives are lying around, or targeting the Phantom themselves. The only exception to this rule would be when Phantom suicide rushes Vasilli’s heartbeat sensors, while the enemy team coordinates their rush in a random path.

And I’ll tell you right now, that strategy is nothing compared to making Phantom a better spotter or assault.

(UndeddJester) #40

I see your point, and yes Proxy is the exception to this rule if she is on point to trigger her mines, but can you honestly say taking out Fletcher stickies, Bush turrets and Aura stations all at the same time is bad for business?

But yes, I do agree that at high levels of play Phantom is almost always going to be on for hard times.

Take this with a pinch of salt, as I have never, nor will ever start playing in the competative scene… but I personally think his kit is fine as far as design goes. Seperating the EMP/cloak and careful tweeking to the numbers such as getting some durability back on his cloak, maybe a little more to his hit points is all I think he needs to be solid again.

He won’t be great in all maps, but in Underground, Bridge, and a few areas of Terminal/Trainyard I can see his kit doing a lot of work.

Of course I am a pub hero in fairness… and I chuffing hate deployables some days xD