Do you want health regeneration?

(warbie) #181

Not at all. In RTCW and ET we had three classes each with clear, essential functions. I suppose the panzer/sniper soldier counts as another class too (although if given the choice I’d merge the field ops and soldier and have just the three, which goes against pretty much everything that characterises f2p)

(SockDog) #182

Because you like being a rambo medic? I’ve yet to see an argument why it benefits the game for the medic to be this way short of people enjoying exploiting the abilities of the medic to become a killing machine.

(INF3RN0) #183

There really aren’t any good arguments towards it, and I have abused rambo medic for ages in these games. It simply comes down to people getting used to playing one way and then being too stubborn to admit it. I always hated the fact that we would only field a non-medic if it was required to do an objective, that was just too obvious of a problem not to come to realize it. By no means should a medic become a TF2 style support or have a terrible weapon, but rather confined to 1v1-3 engagements in it’s maximum efficiency. A soldier or another class ought to be the one wiping out large numbers of enemies because they don’t have such a significant self-help mechanism to get the job done and should be aptly rewarded for their disadvantage.

(SockDog) #184

Likewise, I’m not devoid of seeing the appeal or indeed doing exactly what I’m saying should be removed. I feel people do however need to take a step back from personal gratification and acceptance of the norm and look at the bigger picture, that being a game fielding a team full of medics is clearly broken, as I’ve said, if this is truly a workable mechanic then why not allow every class to have the ability to self heal and be done with it.

(BomBaKlaK) #185

I’m not really a killing machine :stuck_out_tongue: and usually it’s the work of the soldier (Wolf ET, ETQW did), but actually the soldier in DB is really limited …

I like in match 5v5 playing medics with 1 o 2 others class needed. I like to supoprt my mates and play the obj.
without good medics i’m really curious to see how matches will work !

And like I say if medics is really only support then nobody wanna play this class. I better to have rambo medics enhance the fight, revive teammates etc … than a medic only here to give some mep pack and try to have a desesperate frag, most of the time playing as a spectator only here to drop packs … not my way. Medics need to be efficient and enter the fight to revive teammates, with self healing and a correct weapon. If not imo medic is just useless … and we are back to COD playing the most efficient weapon … and not the most efficient class who can help teammates even if for some people is a bit tricky to deal with it. My choise is to keep a medics who can kick in the fight and help teamates.

The problem is not this class ! Medics and engies are fine to me but the others are terribly dispensable … make them essential and remove autoregen and the deal is done. player wanna hug medics to get some packs ! and medics gonna be happy to drop some ! Actually we dont care there is autoregen … and ammo everywhere …

(INF3RN0) #186

I don’t know how many times it needs to be said… Medic should not be made into a full support. Instead it just needs to be more balanced in terms of its ability to self heal allowing it to kill so efficiently in rambo mode. Here is a plain and simple example of the reasoning.

Apply the ETQW 5v5 infantry without the vehicle game and you end up with this in most situations, which atm is very comparable to DB;

Medic>Fops
Medic>Engineer (with 1 mine)
Medic>Soldier (with AR)

The damage is the same, the ammo is the same, the weapon is the same. There then becomes less and less of a reason to not play anything but medic because it can (1) kill just as well (2) brings one of the most important skills to the team (revive/heals). The problem is that there is very little disadvantage to the medic being able to self-heal so much. You could take away self-heal, but then you take away a viable strategy that can actually apply to being a better team player as sometimes it is necessary for the greater good of the team. You could limit the self healing, but then it still brings more to the table than other classes anyway. There needs to be a better solution to the problem, and again… there is absolutely no reason to make a medic a completely support-only class- but instead balance its advantage out with the other classes to a realistic extent.

(BomBaKlaK) #187

Yes I understand your point. But I really like the match with a lots of medics need more team play to me. harder to get a point you need to work together more than without. that’s make this game so awesome !
Same on a lot of games, medics always a very important class and really need to be effective and versatile to be on the field and help teammates.

I’m just so happy to get some ET feelings back that I’m really afraid of another fail with a “last minute bad idea who suppose to solve all the problems and did not” …

So please SD check all the possibilities but keep that ET feeling alive !

(tokamak) #188

I’m just completely with Inferno here.

Two essential points:

  • NOBODY is saying that the medic should be support only.
  • The medic just should not be equal or better to the other classes when it comes to combat.
(warbie) #189

As long as the other classes have necessary and fun roles, why does it matter if the medic is equally as strong in combat? The problem arises when it’s not worth playing other classes fullstop.

(tokamak) #190

Because the medic has a disproportionate advantage outside combat. Once the fight is fought the medic is the only class that can get right back up and straight into the next fight. That´s what makes the medic so attractive to players interesting in fragging and that´s what needs changing.

(warbie) #191

In RTCW that was offset by a lack of ammo. At the moment the amount of ammo the medic starts coupled with the how easily it is to top up encourages rambo tactics. Address this and they’ll be reigned without having to mess with balance in combat (and maybe give people a reason to go field ops).

(BomBaKlaK) #192

Finaly someone who understand my point of view !

(SockDog) #193

This is a very short term solution. Add ample supply of ammo and you have overpowered rambo medics again. As will hopefully be tried soon, limited the ability to self heal will allow medics to fight on an even par with their team mates.

(BomBaKlaK) #194

This is not a game problem !! this is a player problem ! you can do whatever you want with your medpack ! and medic need to be able to join the firefight.
it’s like rage kid who say cheaters all the time you can see what you wanna see.

upgrade the others classes to balance the game and stop the Witch hunting against rambo medics …

(SockDog) #195

[QUOTE=BomBaKlaK;425945]This is not a game problem !! this is a player problem ! you can do whatever you want with your medpack ! and medic need to be able to join the firefight.
it’s like rage kid who say cheaters all the time you can see what you wanna see.

upgrade the others classes to balance the game and stop the Witch hunting against rambo medics …[/QUOTE]

What sort of statement is that! Of course it’s a game issue, people will play within the confines of a game. You think the solution is a sternly worded warning card appearing on the screen?

I’m seeing exactly what you’re seeing. In fact if anyone is blinkered it’s people who think a class based objective shooter is doing just fine with 75% of a team being rambo medics.

Yes. Lets upgrade all the other classes with medpacks so they can self heal too. Now, we’re back to an even footing.

(warbie) #196

There’s the trick - how to reign the medic in without making it a service class. What I don’t understand is why we don’t at least try a more simplistic RTCW approach before going crazy with regenerating health and shrubmod ammo drops everywhere. Look at some of the suggestions on this forum - medics dropping medic packs, buffs for killing people or doing your classes job, medics not being able to self heal. If I’m a medic and I see another class who needs health I give them med packs, simple.

(Kl3ppy) #197

+1
First of all, I’m not a fan of health regeneration.
In QW the Medic has 1 magazine and 1 nade less than the other classes. I dont know if it’s clever to raise the ammo and nade supply of the other classes and reduce it for the medic. But it would slow down the “killing machine” medic.

(tokamak) #198

OR how to make the medic a service class without reigning him in. Making the class more of a supportive role is the point all along. It really doesn’t help if you keep clinging to your agenda of making it the best survival and combat class in the game. IE through indirect self-heal replacing the direct self-heal.

Limiting ammo is just such a faux solution. Just one field ops handing him a few packets and he turns into a killing machine again. Especially once supply depots become more prevalent in the game it will nullify this artificial limiter and bring us back where we started.

(DoseyWallups) #199

Only a few days into alpha, so I am new to all this and still getting a feel for the game. I tend to agree with Warbie on this one but there are a couple problems.

In RTCW the Lieutenant class had one resource bar that was shared between all skills. This kept him from ammoing up a team of Rambo meds because the air strikes and artillery were an important part of the game, especially on defense. In pugs, if a med was not a team player, he could just run around v22’ng all game until he clued in that he had to “work for his meal”.

So far I am not seeing that even if the ammo and air strike shared a resource, that it would make much difference. The air strikes just don’t seem crucial outside of destroying the EV. Maybe adding artillery would help this, but I am sure that would bring up a slew of other issues.

Having supply depots will also make it ineffective as meds can just bum rush to the ammo crates like we did in ET. My personal opinion is that having these in game is a mistake.

I liked RTCW’s way of doing things because it not only limited the effectiveness of Rambo medics but also promoted proper class balance across a team.

That being said, It is a new game and I do understand that as much as I would like this to be DirtyRTCW, it’s not :slight_smile:

Warbie mentioned it’s a more simplistic approach, but to be effective it feels like it would be more complicated than adjusting regeneration or lowering the medics assault capabilities. I do hope we see a solid attempt at trying both directions during this beta

EDIT* I realized this was a tad off topic to the post. I voted no. I do not care for regeneration, for any class.

(iwound) #200

Artillery is in. infact i think its in the new patch coming soon…

Fire Support Character “Skyhammer” has been replaced with CJ “Arty” Weng