Do you think Javelin is fun to play against?

(scrub_lord) #1
(scrub_lord) #2

Overpowered or not, the main issue I have with her is that she simply ruins the gameplay for me and many of my friends. It’s like playing against a Vassili who can get headshots constantly, the difference being one takes a lot of skill and practice and the other can be executed by any player of any skill level.

Getting instagibbed and not being able to do anything about it detracts from what the game is about I think. If you’re going to include mechanics like this, it should at least require a great deal of personal skill to do and not just pressing a button and aiming in the general direction of someone to instantly win the exchange.

(Melinder) #3

Though I still find playing against a Fragger to be more frustrating. They have the same effect except Javelin can instantly gib, though on the flipside Fragger can do it twice as often.

I’ve never liked how Fragger’s grenade guaranteed a cheap kill, though I’ve always just put up with it, as he’s not that common in pubs anyway. But now that Javelin has the same capability, except it’s easier and it’s more appealing to the people who think “OMG ROCKET LAUNCHER SIIIIICK LAD”, meaning there are more of them, both now and after the hype dies down. It’s already beginning to annoy me in the first 24 hours, and I’ve hardly even died to it.

(MarsRover) #4

This poll really needs to be a “neutral” option or a 1-10 scale. A simple yes/no is too inaccurate. Any merc with high slaying potential is “not fun” to play against.

(emjot) #5

If DB was about 1v1, yes. However it’s about teamwork, so no.
edit: meant to be the other way around, gonna leave it as people already agreed/disagreed with post :slight_smile:

(scrub_lord) #6

@MarsRover said:
This poll really needs to be a “neutral” option or a 1-10 scale. A simple yes/no is too inaccurate. Any merc with high slaying potential is “not fun” to play against.

Maybe it’s just my train of thought, but that isn’t how I see it. I don’t even find Fragger unfun to play against, because I can always play around his ability.

If I found every slayer merc unfun to play against, I wouldn’t be playing the game.

(Press E) #7

Idk. I mean, frankly, she is fun as shit. Playing against her, trying to melee her and whatnot without getting hit by the axe of doom, she honestly is a fun challenge.

But from a competitive standpoint, no, she’s not fun at all to play against. I’ve always been extremely against one-hit kills in PVP games. They just seem cheap as hell to me. And if something has to be a one-hit kill, at least make it avoidable.
Melee, you can avoid by not getting stupidly close. Airstrikes, you can avoid by looking for a marker. Mines, you can also avoid by simply paying attention.
Things like sniper rifle headshots, you usually can’t avoid. Getting killed clean across the map without ever having a chance just isn’t fun, whether or not it took skill to make that shot.
The problem with javelin atm is, she doesn’t take skill to make her shot, and still can cheaply kill anyone without giving them a chance.

She’s not even fun to play with really. I mean, her ammo ability is so OP that all firesupports on the team are pretty much useless in terms of ammo. Hell, you don’t even have to play her like a firesupport. Watching who needs ammo? Choosing who needs your ammo packs more? Nah, I’ll just walk around and give ammo to everyone, even when I’m dead.

The best fixes I can think of are:

  1. massively nerf her speed while charging her RPG, like rhino’s minigun. Perhaps only allow it on the ground too so she can’t charge while jumping
  2. Louder audio ques on her RPG, maybe a smoke effect.
  3. An obvious laser, both while charging the RPG and firing it, maybe a bit brighter than kira and arty’s laser.
  4. Obviously reduce the damage to around that of fragger’s grenade, instagibbing is shit, regardless of how squishy your merc is.
  5. A phoenix pulse style ammo dispenser with a reasonable cooldown so other firesupports actually have a chance to do something
  6. A much longer ammo generator cooldown, or just remove it altogether tbh. She should still somewhat have to rely on her teammates
  7. Reduce the health of the RPG to 1 so shooting it down is actually viable

Obviously not all of these would be added together, they’re just ideas. I think her cooldown is fine, it’s just the rocket itself that’s the problem.

(CodeAlpha) #8

Nearly every 1v1 ive had with jav the user didnt rely on aim with their gun anymore, just swap jump around while it charges and shoot rocket at my feet.

(emjot) #9

Regarding ammo, another solution would be simple and work like for other mercs:

  • stack up to 4x
  • each time someone refills ammo on her -1 from stack (including self-refill)

So this would work like dropping ammo pack cooldown.

I also noticed she gives ammo on round’s start countdown (not getting xp tho)

(Press E) #10

@emjot said:
Regarding ammo, another solution would be simple and work like for other mercs:

  • stack up to 4x
  • each time someone refills ammo on her -1 from stack (including self-refill)

So this would work like dropping ammo pack cooldown.

I also noticed she gives ammo on round’s start countdown (not getting xp tho)

Idk, if you’re going to do that you might as well make it voluntary. I do like prioritizing who I give ammo to.

(blufflord) #11

I didn’t vote in the pole cause it’s not that simple for me. No merc is fun to play at release when 80% of the server is using that merc. Now if we ignore this aspect, it’s still not fun to play against until a couple of changes get made first.

  1. Stop insta gibbing even when it’s not a direct hit. As a medic, I actually want to be able to revive my team mates. They removed insta gib from sniping and frag nades for most part, so why does Jav have it.
  2. Reduce the Area of damage, so it rewards you for direct hits. This would actually make it more fun for me to play as her as well as against her, cause it’s just more satisfying and rewarding that way. I don’t want to be hitting the ground 1 meter away from the merc and them still dying.

After this I think the cooldown could get tweaked maybe to 40 secs, but this depends on the other changes. Finally maybe a more distinct warning about when I’m gonna eat a rocket to my face. But I think she could be a really welcoming addition to the game with her ability to flush out defensive groups camping particular parts of the maps with their aura stations.

(Melinder) #12

@emjot said:
Regarding ammo, another solution would be simple and work like for other mercs:

  • stack up to 4x
  • each time someone refills ammo on her -1 from stack (including self-refill)

So this would work like dropping ammo pack cooldown.

I also noticed she gives ammo on round’s start countdown (not getting xp tho)

The one thing I don’t like about her ammo aura is that I always run out of ammo if there isn’t another fire support on the team.

(emjot) #13

@STARRYSOCK said:

@emjot said:
Regarding ammo, another solution would be simple and work like for other mercs:

  • stack up to 4x
  • each time someone refills ammo on her -1 from stack (including self-refill)

So this would work like dropping ammo pack cooldown.

I also noticed she gives ammo on round’s start countdown (not getting xp tho)

Idk, if you’re going to do that you might as well make it voluntary. I do like prioritizing who I give ammo to.

Damn, you are right. Didin’t think about that aspect, although,maybe then 5sec cooldown for each refill?

@Melinder said:

@emjot said:
Regarding ammo, another solution would be simple and work like for other mercs:

  • stack up to 4x
  • each time someone refills ammo on her -1 from stack (including self-refill)

So this would work like dropping ammo pack cooldown.

I also noticed she gives ammo on round’s start countdown (not getting xp tho)

The one thing I don’t like about her ammo aura is that I always run out of ammo if there isn’t another fire support on the team.

You are also right, but I think it’s fair compromise for her abilities.

(Melinder) #14

@Melinder said:

@emjot said:
Regarding ammo, another solution would be simple and work like for other mercs:

  • stack up to 4x
  • each time someone refills ammo on her -1 from stack (including self-refill)

So this would work like dropping ammo pack cooldown.

I also noticed she gives ammo on round’s start countdown (not getting xp tho)

The one thing I don’t like about her ammo aura is that I always run out of ammo if there isn’t another fire support on the team.

You are also right, but I think it’s fair compromise for her abilities.

“Fair” because the javelin is stronger than it should be. If they are able to bring it in line with the other fire supports, the ammo aura is lacking for her, and too strong for teammates. I would like to see it not provide infinite ammo for all teammates, and rather a balance between others and yourself, because you’d never run out of ammo as the other fire supports.

@Melinder said:
If they are able to bring it [Rocket] in line with the other fire supports

Regarding my own point, im actually confused as to why she is a fire support, as her ability is more like Nader/Fragger. Obviously it’s due to the ammo aura, though it just doesn’t seem right to me.

(Blargz) #15

Everything that can kill You instantly is not fun to play against. If Fragger was the new merc and 4-5 people on each side played him, everyone would complain how grenades are op and cheap.

I’m sure she’ll get tweaked. Though I fail to see how it’s much different from ET’s panzerfaust.

(MarsRover) #16

Let’s flip the question - which merc is fun to play against?
Uses shotguns? No.
Uses sniper rifles? No.
Uses OP burst rifles? No.
Uses explosives of any kind? No.
Is part of any “broken” combo like Rhino+Aura+Turtle? No.

This leaves us with a grand total of 5 mercs:
Sawbonez
Phoenix
Bushwhacker
Sparks
Phantom

Sparks ranged revive and Phoenix’s instant heal are also a bit controversial so maybe they’re also not fun. So guys, I have a solution - DB should limit the merc roster to just Bushwhacker, Sawbonez and Phantom.

(scrub_lord) #17

@MarsRover said:
Let’s flip the question - which merc is fun to play against?
Uses shotguns? No.
Uses sniper rifles? No.
Uses OP burst rifles? No.
Uses explosives of any kind? No.
Is part of any “broken” combo like Rhino+Aura+Turtle? No.

This leaves us with a grand total of 5 mercs:
Sawbonez
Phoenix
Bushwhacker
Sparks
Phantom

Sparks ranged revive and Phoenix’s instant heal are also a bit controversial so maybe they’re also not fun. So guys, I have a solution - DB should limit the merc roster to just Bushwhacker, Sawbonez and Phantom.

That’s your opinion.

In mine, I find Thunder, Fletcher, Javelin and Aura to be the only ones.

Thunder, because he is overstated and his Concussion grenades are unavoidable and let him win any fight.

Fletcher, because sticky spam while making yourself incredibly hard to hit in the process.

Aura, because healing station is too powerful in unorganized matches and makes attacking even more difficult. This one is very hit or miss and depends on how the stations are used.

Javelin, because unavoidable instant death rocket

Also, if you find that many mercs unfun to play against, why are you still playing the game? lmao

(TitaniumRapture) #18

Yeah delete sniper rifles (please do), shotguns, explosives, healing stations, minigun, laser beam, burst rifles, concussion grenade and instant healing and we are fine. And we got csgo lite. :slight_smile: :smiley:

Btw i dont think thats even possible to have fun like say to play against any character. Every class has annoying ability (something is more annoying than other) and it gets even more annoying when its used properly. Sure you can say its fun to oneshot weak medics or so but thats kind of different story.

(MarsRover) #19

@scrub_lord said:
Also, if you find that many mercs unfun to play against, why are you still playing the game? lmao

I find pretty much all of them meh/neutral to play against. But your poll doesn’t have that option because it is clearly designed to obtain the result you want. I’m just demonstrating this because shitty polls really grind my gears.

(scrub_lord) #20

@MarsRover said:

@scrub_lord said:
Also, if you find that many mercs unfun to play against, why are you still playing the game? lmao

I find pretty much all of them meh/neutral to play against. But your poll doesn’t have that option because it is clearly designed to obtain the result you want. I’m just demonstrating this because @$!# polls really grind my gears.

Meh/neutral doesn’t mean unfun

So your entire post was pointless. Good going.