Do you like heartbeat sensor nades

(tokamak) #21

Who are these almighty league players who’s will shall be done without any underlying argumentation? I hear them get mentioned a lot and we all need to cower and listen to them lest the game should fail.

The heartbeat sensors are not some free wallhack. They come at a huge cost to the team. The sniper has the most niche weapon in the game, only useful in very limited situations. This means that in many situations a covert ops is performing sub-par combat-wise. This IS a cost because that covert ops could just as easily have been any other class and make a bigger contribution to this team.

The heartbeat sensors have a limited range, a limited duration and constantly need to be readjusted for them to be effective. This is a huge job for the covert ops. That’s another way it takes away from the ability to be of any other value to the team.

Note that heartbeat sensors are the ONLY non material contribution to the team. Every other class asset is giving benefits in the shape of health, ammo or offensive power. You seem to be completely fine with that but when the contribution suddenly is about information it becomes a problem?

And yes, as of now being tracked is pretty close to being a death sentence. That’s what needs changing. If players are going to be tracked then they need to be aware of that. That’s the only thing that makes it feel unfair right now.

Apart from that it’s the most brilliant and well I guess, the only psychological area control tool in this game. Without it it’s just dudes running around and shoving their cross-hairs up each other’s butts.

(Kl3ppy) #22

[QUOTE=tokamak;431561]
And yes, as of now being tracked is pretty close to being a death sentence. That’s what needs changing. If players are going to be tracked then they need to be aware of that. That’s the only thing that makes it feel unfair right now.

Apart from that it’s the most brilliant and well I guess, the only psychological area control tool in this game. Without it it’s just dudes running around and shoving their cross-hairs up each other’s butts.[/QUOTE]

Could be true. So let us just test it with a warning and then we can see if its better now or not. Therefore its an alpha where things can be tested :wink:

(scre4m.) #23

[QUOTE=Shifty.;431560] When the radar gets limited to the minimap, its fine.
[/QUOTE]
For Pub: True
For comp: False

We want ONE game.

Maybe just let those “hearbeat sensors” make a noise, when an enemy in its radius moves. This would make them somehow useful, without giving you a visual information about your enemies’ location.

(Kl3ppy) #24

[QUOTE=scre4m.;431564]For Pub: True
For comp: False

We want ONE game.[/QUOTE]

So we need something between showing all or showing nothing.

(scre4m.) #25

or showing NOTHING, but giving noise-feedback

(iwound) #26

Yeah its called an on/off switch on server settings.

(scre4m.) #27

I doubt this the developers’ intention. From what I read so far the game should be as close as possible compaing pub with comp. Or maybe even be 100% the same.
Allowing a “wallhack” on pub, but restricting in comp is a big difference. there were “radar-players” in ET:QW. Those guys sucked when they played promod, as they always got surprised by popping up enemies as they rely on radar data, while a promod player is relying on experience.

(Mustang) #28

I’m agnostic about them right now, perhaps it’s because the covert ops is not enticing enough to play yet, so they don’t appear all that often.

(scre4m.) #29

For sure it is because noone really plays Recon atm. This will turn into a problem later on, when skilled snipers enter the game. ( crystal ball on)

(tokamak) #30

As if it doesn’t take skill, insight and experience in order to use the heartbeat sensors to their best extend. They’re not some side-wheels to make it easier for pub players. They’re an actual stratagem that both teams can use and only the team that will use them in the best way will benefit most.

It’s stuff like this that differentiates a game like DB from a game like Counter Strike. It’s not just about twitch-shooting. There’s much more to it.

Then we’ll simply make it more difficult to snipe.

I’m getting pretty tried of these hypothetical league boogeymen that conveniently back you up on whatever you say.

(Loffy) #31

Ja, Runeforce, I’ve been wondering the same. Exactly how does those heartbeat thingies work? I need to know, so I can place them perfectly when I play as covert.

(scre4m.) #32

[QUOTE=tokamak;431575]As if it doesn’t take skill, insight and experience in order to use the heartbeat sensors to their best extend.

It’s stuff like this that differentiates a game like DB from a game like Counter Strike. It’s not just about twitch-shooting. There’s much more to it.

[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but thats simply not true.
The correct usage of nades can make or brake a game in CS. They are absolutely vital. But I guess you have no CS-experience at all and just say " It’s a noob game"

(tokamak) #33

Fine twitch-shooting and nades. And for CS that’s okay. But it remains a superficial game where mouse dexterity is the defining factor.

Here’s another thing, a big complaint right now is that players get to have very situational awareness. They game feels chaotic and half the time players don’t fully know what’s going on. Once the HB sensors are being used properly suddenly everyone gets to have a much better understanding of the situation, people get to act on their roles better and we see more team-cohesion.

I can only see this taken even further in league players where the HB sensors will give their voice chat communication an extra boost. Again, only if done right.

(iwound) #34

[QUOTE=scre4m.;431578]Sorry, but thats simply not true.
The correct usage of nades can make or brake a game in CS. They are absolutely vital. But I guess you have no CS-experience at all and just say " It’s a noob game"[/QUOTE]

i think he means its the xtra options in ET,QW,DB that differentiate themselves from CS.
ie CS had simple objectives with guns, well last time i played it did. a great game. what SD games give is all the bells and whistles. Tools and gadgets.
if we didnt want these we would all play CS which has great guns movement etc
its about how deep do you want your game to be. its not just about gunplay. its about weapons tactics.

(tokamak) #35

Yeah cheers. That’s what I mean. And the tactical aspect of the HB sensors still isn’t there yet. A tracker warning will not only tone down it’s combat strength but it will also make it a more tactical weapon.

Right now it only makes sense to toss it at densely fought over areas. Areas where a lot of players will be. However, once a tracker warning is added then HB sensors would also work as a bluff. You could throw them on the more remote routes and give the impression that they’re being watched but instead your entire team is defending some other spaces. These kind of mind games would be amazing, whether it’s in pub or in pro.

(scre4m.) #36

First statement still is false. Its impossible to reduce this game to 1 factor. Mouse dexterity is a basic requirement. Games are decided by other factors unless one team does not have those basic requirements.

Back to DB:
stuff like grenade indicators, heartbeat sensors, Low ammo warnings, whatever… are features that bring us closer to the games we do NOT want to play.
I would like to define this game by pace,movement, teamplay and aim, not buy warnings for every single situation and dozens of ‘useful’ features.
There is way less chaos on the map if we keep the game rather simple.

There will be enough confusion due to different loadouts for each class.It will maybe feel like 10 classes, as some loadouts play completely different than others already now ( eng with shotgun and mines <-> eng with Rifle and Turret).

If we implement such stuff like heartbeat sensors, we cause even more confusion. As I already wrote on the other thread, ppl will just blindly jump around corners, once a heartbeat nade spots an enemy. If there are other players outside the range, he wont know about that and get refragged.

I am very certain such sensors cause more problems than they solve.

Whenever I launch BF3 I see just the same. I see a tracked enemy on the minimap, jump around the corner, SURPRISE 3 enemies => I am dead
So I decide to rely on what I see or what my team tells me ( when I play with other people on voice-server) and everything is fine.
And I dont need a grenade indicator. I have 2 working eyes and I do know grenades might even do damage to me.

(tokamak) #37

I would like to define this game by pace,movement, teamplay and aim,

There’s already tons of shooters that have those aspects nailed perfectly. Making DB just another one of them wouldn’t benefit anyone. There’s only marginal improvement possible in that field. SD has had a decade of pioneering the idea that a shooter can be a lot more than movement and aim. No other developer has been able to deepen the tactical shooter genre in such a way. It’s their main selling point.

(scre4m.) #38

Pace, Movement, teamplay and aim are variable. There is no such thing as perfect movement or a perfect pace, as everyone has a personal preference. So how can you make a game which perfects all of those aspects? That’s not possible.

my point is, adding stuff without asking why you add it, or what effects it has on gameplay is the worst thing you can do. Where do we stop? you get an airstrike or a bunch of aggressive dogs hunt your enemy as a kill-streak bonus?!? Thats not what we want to see.

And adding a technology, that has been used in countless shooters before has nothing to do with pioneering.sry.

(tokamak) #39

There’s very little leeway in creating a shooter solely based on that. The niches are pretty much filled as they are.

What bothers me so much about this is that your argumentation against HB sensors can be applied to any ability that doesn’t directly involve killing someone. If we keep rejecting ideas based on that then this game will only be different from other shooters by having it’s parameters set slightly different. And frankly I don’t see the appeal in that. Even if DB found a better way to set the base configuration in a better way (and don’t get me wrong, that’s also important) then it by itself won’t be enough to draw any attention from the big giants like BF3, COD and CS.

(scre4m.) #40

neither Airstrikes, nor turrets make me look through walls.