Do you fear the Mercs?

(Humate) #21

Playing the player vs playing the game?

For DB its the player, for etqw its the game since it uses a counter system.
But like you said there are certain exceptions in DB.

(PixelTwitch) #22

Hey Guys,

Since the talk is getting a little heated in here I thought I would jump in.
I want to be clear, I am not asking for OP Mercs…

All I want is a game that is going to be deeper than what we currently have. I believe many aspects could do with added depth and I thought the Merc vs Merc aspect is not something that has been explored a lot so far. By no means am I advocating that a Thunder should 100% kill a Proxy if both players are of equal skill or that a noob with Fragger should 100% kill a Phoenix. What I am saying is that at range a Proxy should have to fight hard to kill a Fragger and only up close (shotgun range) should they be on an equal footing. We need more definition within roles and loadouts than we currently do. I still see no reason for not having a heavy Medic or Engineer. Even giving us a light killing machine should be a possibility.

My real concern comes from the fact I believe that Kira, Sparks, Phantom and Rhino are the best demonstrations of how diverse and interesting this game could be. Yet 3 of them have been removed to… “bring them more in line with the current Mercs”. Rhino already had this treatment when they handed him a standard primary weapon (not that I have a major problem with this apart from the fact you gave him the very worst weapon in the game, likely because SD themselves begrudged giving him a weapon at all.).

I would hate to imagine them Mercs coming back in being like our current selection.

It seems that both a large potion of the community and some of the developers are still locked into this “CLASS” way of thinking rather than the “CHARACTER” based system the game seems to want to push…

(Voshy) #23

This i agree with, shotguns are too powerful at mid range at the moment. If they have to be in the game, at least let them be any good only at very close range.

(tokamak) #24

That’s also something nobody is advocating against. You can easily contain such roles within one merc. What you can’t have though, is a killing machine that’s also an effective medic.

What you also can’t have is a ‘killing machine’ when every 1v1 needs to be a fair fight. Just can’t happen.

(montheponies) #25

Doesn’t take long for the usual statement that engineers and medics shouldnt be effective killers…

I’d agree with Voshy. At the moment I reckon there is just enough difference to make merc choice worthwhile - the added hp and dmg from Fragger and Thunder can compensate if your against someone slightly better but won’t save you if you just mash mouse1 and spray. In my mind the mercs should provide some situational advantage eg. shotgun favouring close quarters (at the moment as stated before they are too powerful in the midrange) but not be so domineering that you’ve lost or won the fight purely down to that choice.

As for the idea that folk will pick a particular Merc to suit ‘playstyle’ - this has been trumpeted before - in Brink there was the ability to create your own character based upon favoured playstyle - yet once the ‘best’ average combo was worked out (light body / carb9) that became the standard, as no one really wanted to be at that much of a disadvantage.

Basically I dont want 1v1s to turn into a rock/paper/scissor game.

(Erkin31) #26

There’s always Q live instagib for everyone who wants a level playing field. It’s free and there’s absolutely nothing to add or change to improve that playstyle. It’s the pure essence of a permanently fair shooter.

I’m not a big fan of instagib.

What I like, it’s when each character has its own way to be played, and each character has the equal chance to kill and survive against others characters.

In Tribes Ascend, I find that the result is really good.
Outdoor: With any classes/loadout, you have all the tools to kill anybody. But you really need to play in different ways for each character to win. As the outdoor environments are open, and the characters are fast, you are really free to manage your way to fight against others players.
Indoor: Here, the game balance is broken (like in the previous tribes), but you are not forced to go indoor (and the flag is generally outdoor).

The problem for me with Dirty Bomb, is that the maps are less open than in Tribes, and the game has no real trickjumps. So each player has less freedom of movements and you can’t offer a big difference in the gameplay of each mercs without creating some problems of balancing.

(tokamak) #27

That still narrows the amount of unique team roles to a mere fraction of what you could have if you let go of that requirement. If not every class has to kill and survive against other character then that class is open to be heavily compensated in other aspects of the game.