Do we really need vote shuffles though?

(hawkeyeguy99) #1

Let me be frank, I’m super biased here. I hate vote shuffles with a passion and get pissed off whenever they’re voted for in-game. But I just don’t really see the point in having them in there at all. Look at other successful FPS games:
COD - no vote shuffle
CS:GO - no vote shuffle
Titanfall - no vote shuffle
Battlefield - no vote shuffle

So why does DB have vote shuffle? I’ve seen it actually help a match maybe 3 times in my 400 hours of playtime. Would it really be missed that much if it was just removed entirely? I vote no on every vote shuffle, even if I’m getting crushed. Plus, 8 times out of 10 a shuffle is just cause noobs are getting salty that they are getting killed more often than they’d like.

End rant.

(K1X455) #2

A friend said vote shuffles is usually called in by a potato in the losing team; it is in the hope of being carried to victory by a stronger player.

Vote shuffles in DB are in place because of the static nature of the balancing system. Players come and go mid match and it will break team coherence if the team with the upper hand get’s shuffled. There’s really no straight answer to this except a major change in the way players come and join.

Consider an ongoing game on 8v8 with 4 players on defence and 5 players on offence. What parameters to the balancing system will you enforce in this scenario?

CAVEAT: Do not attempt to make half baked answers because complicated ELO systems have issues when implemented on the dynamics of Dirty Bomb’s game.

(Press E) #3

I think it needs to be improved, not removed.
Yes it can be called by noobs, but it’s easy to shut down when it is. It rarely passes when it’s needed anyways. Until we have a better balance system, it does its job well enough. Spawncamps aren’t fun, and there needs to be a way out of that. If it’s going to be removed, we need something better to replace it.

Besides, DB doesn’t need to be exactly like other successful FPS games.

(ImSploosh) #4

Vote shuffles are actually useful right now, although they do not always work properly. One of the biggest issues is that people vote no or don’t vote at all when a shuffle is obviously needed. Shuffles should be called shortly after a match begins (or in the beginning of a match if it’s really obvious by the level differences, skill, and/or amount of players on each team).

I normally call them to benefit the other team because stomping people is boring. I often find myself switching teams though because people refuse the shuffle and then the result is those same people who refused, getting stomped. This happens a lot when I’m playing with/against friends and the teams become obviously imbalanced. I’ll ask someone on my team to switch or call a shuffle and if no one switches/votes, I’ll switch. When I’m playing on the same team as a friend in these sort of matches, it doesn’t end well for the other team!

Anyways, shuffle votes are annoying when improperly called, but you should still look into them to see if the vote is actually needed. I’d like them to stay for now.

(blonk) #5

The sad thing is too often when the shuffle looks to be needed it rarely passes, I mean let’s face it, most level 4 skyhammers don’t even know how to throw ammo, never mind follow what’s going on with votes. On the flipside sometimes people call them to be spiteful/trolls and that’s usually when they end up going through.

I’m not convinced at all that how it works at the moment is right, but I’m also not sure what else can be done beyond surrendering the ability to the server and letting it deal with percieved inbalances. People will always fuck it up.

(n-x) #6

The problem with vote shuffles is the timing.

Often the attackers get wiped on their first attack on the objective and need some time to reorganize. And instead of trying there comes the vote shuffle.

Or It is just too late in the game and nobody wants to end up in the losing team after he put a lot of effort into supporting his team. Nobody likes to get his fruits of labor taken away from him. Especially if the other team didnt lose because of skill difference but because they played deathmatch the whole time.

(frostyvampire) #7

Csgo has a vote shuffling option. But it’s almost never used

DB needs a vote shuffle because there’s no matchmaking there, the other games have a matchmaking system that tries to make the matches as balanced as possible

(Szakalot) #8

shuffle is great, but it falls short in some scenarios:

  • server is not yet full - shuffle is useless because whatever the balance after shuffle, it will be disturbed by the joining players
  • server is full but players are still connecting (0 ping) - shuffle will fail as it needs >50% of players vote yes, whilst some of them cant even see the vote yet, which effectively raises the bar to sth like 60-70%
  • high disparity between top dogs and weaker players - if you have odd-numbered amount of ‘pros’, it will be difficult to shuffle in a balanced way
  • its too late in the game : shuffling on the last obj or 2nd round of sw is usually silly. excusing some ridiculous imbalance, shuffle at this point basically turns the rest of the map into TDM
(Dr_Plantboss) #9

I quote myself…

Well said, @Dr_Plantboss ! Lovely way to put that!

(K1X455) #10

and if you get casually matched with a bad lot, rage quit or call for shuffle… #amiright?