Dirty Wars 1: The Javelin Menace.


(bgyoshi) #21

@Sorotia said:

Had no problems defending it…it used to take tactics and was a challenge…

That’s an overstatement if I ever heard one. The few times I won after 1st objective capture defending that map was against braindead teams, and the few times I lost on attack after 1st objective capture was with a braindead team. Optimal defense strategy involved hovering around the capture points, because all of the flanking and special routes all lead to the objectives. It wasn’t worth pushing out since the attackers could just sneak around trivially and ninja plant on point. A good defending team basically eliminated all the reason for the fancy routes and variety of paths because they wouldn’t try and engage you in those routes. In the end, they were ignored and it was just better to move in as a team.

Now they trimmed away the routes that were being ignored anyway, and defenders can actually push the offense back and gain some ground. It turned a shitty offense-biased map into a pretty even, balanced map.

The problem was that the map was so bad that tactics weren’t necessary. There was only one defense tactic that could be used, unless you wanted to lose in under 5 minutes.


(bushyg) #22

@DefaultSettings said:
How can one compare her to Fragger? This may be true in the hands on good players but I’ve been playing for 1 year and a half and I have never ever seen new players having several triples during a single game.

To me, it looks like SD knows exactly what they are doing. There’s a lack of player for the game to succeed and make money. BUT, the game is hard for new players who are outplayed by veterans. Let’s give them a cheap way to compete and farm XP for free (cause yes, earnign badges and XP just by standing is stupid, you litterally do nothing at all) and push the game to a more causal state so it appeals more players.

I am waiting for the next mercs to be out but I am afraid we might see more passive abilities.

We can’t all be tryharders but I play DB cause it’s not casual.

Edit: Guided mode only is actually a great idea. At least it would award great guiders and make a difference.

From “Competitive to the Core” to “Catering to the Casuals”.


(Teflon Love) #23

@DefaultSettings said:
BUT, the game is hard for new players who are outplayed by veterans. Let’s give them a cheap way to compete and farm XP for free (cause yes, earnign badges and XP just by standing is stupid, you litterally do nothing at all)

Worst of all, there already was a merc for that: Aura. And it even is a valid play style for beginners.

  1. Stumble across the map having no clue about anything.
  2. Watch skillful Auras place their healing stations.
  3. Use the same spots later.
  4. Stay back near your healing station and get plenty of XP from others falling back for healing.
  5. Watch other mercs doing their thing, eventually pick up their moves start taking a more active role.

Best of all, you are at least somewhat useful right from the start. Sadly the low number of kills from this play style won’t make your mum proud.


(Your worst knifemare.) #24

@teflonlove said:

@DefaultSettings said:
BUT, the game is hard for new players who are outplayed by veterans. Let’s give them a cheap way to compete and farm XP for free (cause yes, earnign badges and XP just by standing is stupid, you litterally do nothing at all)

Worst of all, there already was a merc for that: Aura. And it even is a valid play style for beginners.

  1. Stumble across the map having no clue about anything.
  2. Watch skillful Auras place their healing stations.
  3. Use the same spots later.
  4. Stay back near your healing station and get plenty of XP from others falling back for healing.
  5. Watch other mercs doing their thing, eventually pick up their moves start taking a more active role.

Best of all, you are at least somewhat useful right from the start. Sadly the low number of kills from this play style won’t make your mum proud.

Theres also Jav who gets 50 zillion xp from people standing near her and always top scores.


(Nail) #25

@teflonlove said:

@DefaultSettings said:
BUT, the game is hard for new players who are outplayed by veterans. Let’s give them a cheap way to compete and farm XP for free (cause yes, earnign badges and XP just by standing is stupid, you litterally do nothing at all)

Worst of all, there already was a merc for that: Aura. And it even is a valid play style for beginners.

  1. Stumble across the map having no clue about anything.
  2. Watch skillful Auras place their healing stations.
  3. Use the same spots later.
  4. Stay back near your healing station and get plenty of XP from others falling back for healing.
  5. Watch other mercs doing their thing, eventually pick up their moves start taking a more active role.

Best of all, you are at least somewhat useful right from the start. Sadly the low number of kills from this play style won’t make your mum proud.

this is why Aura is a starter


(Gire) #26

Cant see why people think Javelin is okay.
No other merc can team wipe just like that.

Just add those wind ups and slow movement when firing plus a distinguishable sound when doing that. It shouldnt be used as a guaranteed insta kill/gib when you are just “Fuck it, im just gonna kill this one guy the easy way” or like “Oh hey, theres alot of people overe there well im just gonna shoot my nuke there at an istant thats no problem”

Add some brains to this merc already, jesus.


(GatoCommodore) #27

@Gire said:
Cant see why people think Javelin is okay.
No other merc can team wipe just like that.
Add some brains to this merc already, jesus.

-no other merc
-what is arty
-what is kira
-what is skydaddy


(Gire) #28

@GatoCommodore said:

@Gire said:
Cant see why people think Javelin is okay.
No other merc can team wipe just like that.
Add some brains to this merc already, jesus.

-no other merc
-what is arty
-what is kira
-what is skydaddy

“Just like that”
Other firesupports indicate it early before it happens.


(Eox) #29

Moving to merc discussions.


(GatoCommodore) #30

@Gire said:

@GatoCommodore said:

@Gire said:
Cant see why people think Javelin is okay.
No other merc can team wipe just like that.
Add some brains to this merc already, jesus.

-no other merc
-what is arty
-what is kira
-what is skydaddy

“Just like that”
Other firesupports indicate it early before it happens.

actually, its very rare for javelin to teamwipe…
on the other hand…

arty, kira and skyhammer is the king of teamwipe

only 2 of these have similar cooldown with javelin and has unlimited range.

but yea, javelin needs sound and laser pointer like every fire support (except stoker)


(scrub_lord) #31

Tbh it would be better to make Javelin useless than to keep her in her current state.

A broken merc is more of an issue than a useless one. I’m not saying they shouldn’t try to balance her, but being too careful with nerfs and waiting too long won’t be good for the game.

If you think it is just going to be bad for the first week with everyone playing her, I guarantee you everyone will continue to main her as long as she stays powerful yet easy to play.

Thank god they don’t allow new mercs in ranked. She would be extra cancerous in there, able to erase the medics with the click of a button.


(bgyoshi) #32

@scrub_lord said:
Tbh it would be better to make Javelin useless than to keep her in her current state.

A broken merc is more of an issue than a useless one. I’m not saying they shouldn’t try to balance her, but being too careful with nerfs and waiting too long won’t be good for the game.

If you think it is just going to be bad for the first week with everyone playing her, I guarantee you everyone will continue to main her as long as she stays powerful yet easy to play.

Thank god they don’t allow new mercs in ranked. She would be extra cancerous in there, able to erase the medics with the click of a button.

It hasn’t even been a full week and I’ve already noticed a large drop in her overall performance. Javs aren’t at the top nearly as consistently as they were before, and medics are back up there once again. It’s getting slightly harder every day to find double/triple kills with the rocket and there’s a lot more people charging in on Javs.

People are learning


(TheFpsPro27) #33

@bgyoshi said:

It hasn’t even been a full week and I’ve already noticed a large drop in her overall performance. Javs aren’t at the top nearly as consistently as they were before, and medics are back up there once again. It’s getting slightly harder every day to find double/triple kills with the rocket and there’s a lot more people charging in on Javs.

People are learning

You are wrong about people learning. As you said her overall performance dropped. But it happened because people hate javelin mains. Because it is impossible to counter her rocket people ignore other merchs on the other team and the objective, and focus on javelin first. When i see a javelin on the other team i don’t care about winning, i only focus on reducing that trolls points.


(watsyurdeal) #34

To be honest I rather like Javelin as is, just would prefer she say her lines before she fires her rocket.

But I do find it rather nuts that people constantly waste a whole rocket on me…like really?

Aside from that I can see her cooldown being nerfed as well. So people aren’t wasting the rocket so quickly


(bgyoshi) #35

@TheFpsPro27 said:

You are wrong about people learning. As you said her overall performance dropped. But it happened because people hate javelin mains. Because it is impossible to counter her rocket people ignore other merchs on the other team and the objective, and focus on javelin first. When i see a javelin on the other team i don’t care about winning, i only focus on reducing that trolls points.

Well I can assure you that you’re probably one of the only people doing that. I haven’t noticed any kind of specific focusing or hate while playing Jav, but I do notice people playing further away and not clumping together as much.

I’ve also noticed an increase in pineapple juggler trolls.


(scrub_lord) #36

@bgyoshi said:

@scrub_lord said:
Tbh it would be better to make Javelin useless than to keep her in her current state.

A broken merc is more of an issue than a useless one. I’m not saying they shouldn’t try to balance her, but being too careful with nerfs and waiting too long won’t be good for the game.

If you think it is just going to be bad for the first week with everyone playing her, I guarantee you everyone will continue to main her as long as she stays powerful yet easy to play.

Thank god they don’t allow new mercs in ranked. She would be extra cancerous in there, able to erase the medics with the click of a button.

It hasn’t even been a full week and I’ve already noticed a large drop in her overall performance. Javs aren’t at the top nearly as consistently as they were before, and medics are back up there once again. It’s getting slightly harder every day to find double/triple kills with the rocket and there’s a lot more people charging in on Javs.

People are learning

People learning to clump up or not, she still has the ability to erase whatever player she wants with her ability with them having little to no way of avoiding it. This will continue to be an issue if her ability stays unchanged. This means important medics and top players can be killed off spawn over and over because of 1 merc consistently. How is that not an issue? I do this myself when I play Javelin. Just save the rocket against competent medics or carries and they aren’t even allowed to play the game anymore. The enemies best player is now irrelevant, because of 1 ability.


(bgyoshi) #37

@scrub_lord said:

People learning to clump up or not, she still has the ability to erase whatever player she wants with her ability with them having little to no way of avoiding it. This will continue to be an issue if her ability stays unchanged. This means important medics and top players can be killed off spawn over and over because of 1 merc consistently. How is that not an issue? I do this myself when I play Javelin. Just save the rocket against competent medics or carries and they aren’t even allowed to play the game anymore. The enemies best player is now irrelevant, because of 1 ability.

You can do this with Fragger too, and any good sniper. If you’re only using your rocket for their perceived “top tier” best player, you’re not helping your team. Even a seasoned pro can’t hold a 4v1.

It’s not an issue because you’re wasting your time and being an active detriment to your team by refusing to maximize the potential of your secondary. Use it when you can get the most damage from it, not because you think it’s some superweapon and killing their top player is the only way to win.


(GatoCommodore) #38

@TheFpsPro27 said:

@bgyoshi said:

It hasn’t even been a full week and I’ve already noticed a large drop in her overall performance. Javs aren’t at the top nearly as consistently as they were before, and medics are back up there once again. It’s getting slightly harder every day to find double/triple kills with the rocket and there’s a lot more people charging in on Javs.

People are learning

You are wrong about people learning. As you said her overall performance dropped. But it happened because people hate javelin mains. Because it is impossible to counter her rocket people ignore other merchs on the other team and the objective, and focus on javelin first. When i see a javelin on the other team i don’t care about winning, i only focus on reducing that trolls points.

impossible to counter the rocket
you can try to shoot the damn thing and let it blow up in her face

You are wrong about people learning.
Because it is impossible to counter her rocket people ignore other merchs on the other >team and the objective, and focus on javelin first.

-nobody learns
-then proceed to learn to kill javelin first

im not sure you get what youre saying.
if nobody learns then i would still in level 30 playing suicide proxy

people learn…its just that you cant cure other people’s supidity since they need to take care of that themselves.

lemme give you example in DB

Stoker was nerfed back in the days because the molotov is seen as cheese kill by throwing it when stoker is nearly dead and easily kill enemies in that radius

fast forward to 2017
people ask for stoker buff and they got it. It just got back to where it starts.

people do learn.


(Sorotia) #39

@watsyurdeal said:
To be honest I rather like Javelin as is, just would prefer she say her lines before she fires her rocket.

But I do find it rather nuts that people constantly waste a whole rocket on me…like really?

Aside from that I can see her cooldown being nerfed as well. So people aren’t wasting the rocket so quickly

Yeah…had a game where I was solo killed 5 times by the rocket…I wasn’t even playing anything crucial…just Nader.


(scrub_lord) #40

@bgyoshi said:

@scrub_lord said:

People learning to clump up or not, she still has the ability to erase whatever player she wants with her ability with them having little to no way of avoiding it. This will continue to be an issue if her ability stays unchanged. This means important medics and top players can be killed off spawn over and over because of 1 merc consistently. How is that not an issue? I do this myself when I play Javelin. Just save the rocket against competent medics or carries and they aren’t even allowed to play the game anymore. The enemies best player is now irrelevant, because of 1 ability.

You can do this with Fragger too, and any good sniper. If you’re only using your rocket for their perceived “top tier” best player, you’re not helping your team. Even a seasoned pro can’t hold a 4v1.

It’s not an issue because you’re wasting your time and being an active detriment to your team by refusing to maximize the potential of your secondary. Use it when you can get the most damage from it, not because you think it’s some superweapon and killing their top player is the only way to win.

You can’t do this with Fragger too. Any “seasoned pro” can read when a Fragger is going to nade and all you have to do is push back. The times you can’t do this is when they make a good prediction which is purely luck. The most you can do to read a Javelin is notice she has her rocket out and now you have 1 second to try to avoid a fast traveling rocket with even more damage and radius than Fragger’s nades.

Getting a free kill on the highest threat player is huge, especially in competitive games. You mean to tell me instantly gibbing the enemy team’s main slayer isn’t a big deal? You can instantly turn any team fight into your favor with Javelin. Fragger can’t do that. He needs prep to get anything done with his ability.

Funny how you mention my way of using her ability is being a detriment to the team, meanwhile your last post was talking about how everyone is learning to not clump up anymore while playing against Javs. If people are never grouping up, then do you just sit on your ability for 3 minutes at a time to finally get a multikill? Seems like a less effective way to use her imo.