[Dirty Cups] Test Cup #1 Feedback!

(MattjA) #1

Hi all,

Since the cup has taken place and finished providing v586 with the win in the final, congrats! Now we must discuss the pros and cons of the current setup that was being ran in the cup both on a management of the cup and with the in-game rules, because at the moment there were zero restrictions and I’m guessing we all have views about what we can do or how the game should be played. If you think other setups should be tried please post exactly what you think should be incorporated for future cups.

For example,

1 Merc Rule
Limited Roles: x2 Fragger x1 Sawbonez etc.

Things can only improve and we need both participants and spectators to have their input for all rounded feedback so things can be improved and tested for a better experience for everyone.

(RazielWarmonic) #2

Thanks for throwing this up Matt, appreciate it, as I am very interested in what people thought did and didn’t work.

(fubar) #3

Thanks for the cup and effort put into it by the people who organized it.
However, please… for further cups, tighten that schedule up. We can’t be starting the first games 30 to 40 minutes late. People need to get to work early. Playing a final as late as 1-2am is just not feasible. I realize this occurred mostly due to the server login issues, however those were fixed on time, at the cup’s deadline and the first game’s still hadn’t started until 19:36 CET.

(Ceres) #4

You are whining about that, seriously? When was the last time there was a DB cup aimed at NA teams and players? A cup that starts at 8 pm east or central time for example? Maybe I should whine too that I don’t get the chance to play in any cups due to the organizers’ desires to have more Europeans play. Be happy about what’s being done for you and don’t complain about the little things, that are also out of the organizers’ control.

About feedback. I didn’t have a chance to play or follow but I watched the few uploaded games afterwards. For the sake of testing, I believe the next cup should implement back the 1 merc rule.

Otherwise, I think allowing people to run whatever they want is fine because it shows SD what mercs to work on so they can be useful in comp and which mercs need slight nerfs.

(fubar) #5

It’s very much in the organizer’s control. Forcing forfeits on no-shows after 10-15 minutes delay rather than having to stick around through 30-40 minutes delay is an option. Having to play a game at 1 or 2 while having to get up for work at 5 is ridiculous to say the least.

If you want a cup aimed towards the NA scene, go for it. I won’t sign up nor would I expect a schedule catered towards EU players.

(Ceres) #6

You know very well how 1 day cups go. Actually, you know better than most people on here. You also know that a big part of them get delayed. No reason to complain about it.

(fubar) #7

Exactly. Which is why I’m proposing a stricter schedule. There’s always going to be delays, which isn’t the issue. The issue is allowing teams to gather themselves for 40 minutes onto a server as opposed to just forfeiting it after 10-15minutes.

(Draceus) #8

Not sure anyone had to play at 1-2 the cup was over at 00:00. But I get your point. Problem is that this was an american cup and as such we have to go by their time not our own and that’s why it turned out the way it did. I’m happy they are organizing cups and making it work for both the NA and the EU community because lets face it, we don’t have enough NA or EU teams right now to separate the scene.

(fubar) #9

Timezones mate, was 1am for our fins. Again, I’m not asking for earlier times or even complaining about the duration. Merely that a schedule’s there for a reason. If the cup’s supposed to start at 19, have it start at 19 and not at 19:40 or later.

(crooKk) #10

North American cup. Deal with it (or don’t and not play).

(INF3RN0) #11

Personally I’d like to see this occur every 2 weeks (just before the next update), not every week. That way we can see how the meta changes with each new merc/balance patch and it would likely be more realistic when it comes to retaining participation. Breaking it into a 2 day event, with semis/finals on the last day would likely be a good way to go as well.

(yakcyll) #12

You do realize that there was a routing failure cutting off half of Europe from a major part of the world and that a team of engineers was summoned on SUNDAY to fix the issue that was literally out of their hands, right? Not to mention that you sound like you watched a lot of DotA before and I don’t think anyone appreciates the tones prevailing on r/dota2 in here.

I had an idea before that instead of exact merc limitations, in the future we could have limitations on classes of mercs, e.g. two assaults, two medics, two engineers or something like that. If we are to use a drafting scheme, then something like two or three mercs bans per team would work best in my opinion, although personally I hate the idea that someone might be arbitrarily denied from playing their strongest merc.

Casters were pretty good starting with round 2; first match they sounded a bit lost, but I suppose that was just the first cast thing, so it’s not a big deal right now.

(adeto) #13

Was a good cup, don’t think there was a single game that was unbalanced just because of mercs. But I think it’s a good thing to have a few test cups with different merc rulings/setups, next cup maybe the 1 merc rule, and the cup after that have a system with 1xHeavy 2xAssault, UnlimitedxMedic, UnlimitedxEngi, 1xSniper. Compare how they feel so we have a better feeling/comparison of what actually influences ‘balance’(because some people here think balance is the same thing as team composition).

Apart from that some maps were simply more defense sided which can be blamed on map design but it’s also simply that defending is easier this early in the stage of the game and there are not a lot of creative attack strats yet. But that’s not anything Cup Admins/Management can do much about so just have to deal with that :stuck_out_tongue:

Also, for a viewer perspective, it would be nice to have a more spectator friendly HUD that allows new players/viewers to easily understand the flow of the game better. http://www.upload.ee/image/4706930/specUI_progress_bar.png
played around a little bit with the idea in photoshop(im not great at it :P) but the progess bar at the bottom. The bar itself is the timeline progress, grey at round start and fills the color of the team attacking as time progresses. The triangles indicate when ‘X’ object was done by either team, showing if a team was faster or slower per objective and how long they still have for coming objectives. The triangles could also have a small description for what objective it was but didn’t want it to become too obstructive of the view so left that out. There is the top progress bar but I feel it’s not really giving any proper information and it changes how it looks per objective and changes within the same objective to certain things (when EV is damage it shows repair % and when its repaired it shows progress through the map which to new players can look really confusing if the EV gets destroyed 3/4 times in a row). Anyway just my 2 cents.

(fubar) #14

You do realize that there was a routing failure cutting off half of Europe from a major part of the world and that a team of engineers was summoned on SUNDAY to fix the issue that was literally out of their hands, right? Not to mention that you sound like you watched a lot of DotA before and I don’t think anyone appreciates the tones prevailing on r/dota2 in here.[/quote]

The amount of literate idiots in this forum is astonishing.

For the last time. I don’t care about the cup’s starting time, I don’t care if it was catered towards NA or EU, neither are relevant.
The point is: Stick to your schedule. Simple as. Don’t let teams sit on a server, doing nothing, for 40 fucking minutes. You have a game scheduled at 20:15? Great. Start at 20:30 latest, failure to do so results in a forfeit. Done. It really couldn’t be any easier.
I don’t even get how such a ruling could be so baffling to anyone in here, this has been done throughout the past 15 years in any competitive game… ever? ET has it. Quake has it. CS has it. Starcraft has it. LoL has it. Dota has it. Hon has it. BF3/4 has it. ET:QW has it. RtCW has it.

(INF3RN0) #15

TBQH it was the smoothest last second 1 day cup I’ve seen in a long time. For the moment you’ll need to be more patient is all there is to it. If that is too much to ask for then you’re welcome to wait for improvements or more official leagues post-OBT. This was a fun promotional cup towards gaining insight into the future of competitive DB and getting people interested in the game, so let’s keep the expectations realistic for the moment guys and have fun.

(quickMicrowave) #16

yuuuuuppppppppp!

stop raging about a 40 minute delay, idiot.

(art1er) #17

[quote=“quickMicrowave;17398”][quote=“fubar;17394”]
The amount of literate idiots in this forum is astonishing.
[/quote]

yuuuuuppppppppp!

stop raging about a 40 minute delay, idiot.[/quote]

(MattjA) #18

Can we get this back on topic for feedback please, if you have made your point about a 40 minute delay then you can probably be assured that this will be looked into and remedied for the future!

Thanks for the feedback so far! Very useful :slight_smile:

(Fana) #19

Agree.

I would like to see future cups played on Saturday rather than Sunday, although I understand why some may disagree. Sunday cups that start as late as 19 CET is rough for those of us who have to go to work on Monday (this time it resulted in my team (LBZ) having to play with a merc).

(hollywood) #20

Feedback -
Adjust the spawn times to 20 offenses / 30 defenses. Ini vs dom on terminal got pretty boring to watch the repetitiveness of being full held on stage 1. Same thing on underground with dom vs. v586 on the final stage.

Surprised no one’s game/computer/internet crashed during a crucial moment. The game needs a pause button.

Update the anti-cheat. Saw fishy play on a couple of players.