DIRTY BOMB UPDATE: Version 17437

[Ragoo]

Why not just remove acceleration altogether - players should just move a certain speed for each:

[ul]
[li]Crouched (why do I make noise while I move and crouch?)
[/li][li]Not-Running
[/li][li]Running
[/li][li]Walking
[/li][/ul]

I don’t get what the acceleration is for either. Is it just realism or what? Cos it really takes alot of fun out of movement and makes you feel clunky, as well as preventing me to use movement more skillfully during combat.

[Humate]

[QUOTE=Maca;434936]
It’s yet very early clunky looking version, there are just the very basic things, and no weapon statistics, which was what many people were asking for. But when it gets more refined I’m positive they’ll be able to put the data there nicely.[/QUOTE]

I was expecting overall accuracy and headshot count.

[tokamak]

It prevents stutter step.

[drfraggot]

[QUOTE=Maca;434952]Yeah sure deathmatch should have K/D, it’s just currently played much less and requires much less balancing in general, so instead of creating different scoreboards for different game-modes in this closed alpha they just “ignored” deathmatch for the moment.
And yea I personally do not know if K/D should be removed at all or if just the kills should be showed (TF2 style), but I’m guessing SD is testing this to see if we can say that our gameplay or game enjoyment changes into one way or the other if we can’t see K/D anymore.[/QUOTE]

I mean you also have to take into account the fact that pubs will be pubs. Competitive play is a whole different ball game.

[drfraggot]

I don’t get what the acceleration is for either. Is it just realism or what? Cos it really takes alot of fun out of movement and makes you feel clunky, as well as preventing me to use movement more skillfully during combat.

I’m actually pretty sure what SD means by acceleration is the acceleration at which your player is achieving in reaching a constant (maximum) velocity. Not to bring math/physics into this, but acceleration only occurs when velocity is in an increasing or decreasing state, resulting in positive or negative acceleration. If velocity is constant, which is what happens when you are in full sprint, there is no acceleration. The acceleration SD is referring to is from the time you press the sprint button along with the forward button at complete rest until you reach maximum velocity, at which point the velocity is constant.

[Valdez]

No, we think we’re going to change it so you can fire whilst carrying again, but we’ve not decided to what extent yet. It might be a few patches before you see any change.

It is not just about not being able to fire, taking time to pickup and to deliver makes certain sections of maps way to defensively biased.

Assault class is getting played considerably less than most other classes right now, that is why we’re trying C4 on the Assault for a bit to see how things change.

Only reason I was personally not playing the soldier was due to the slow speed, feels like im moving around a tank.

Ammo stations have only just gone in, their placement was a bit haphazard, now we’ll gather info about how and when they’re used and adjust them accordingly to ensure the Fire Support class is the main source of ammo.

I do not care where they are placed, if you ask me Fire support should be the only source of ammo.

As we stated with a recent patch we’re at a stage of development where we’re still doing iterative design in considerable chunks, that means testing and evaluating changes quite frequently. At this stage you won’t always see what you want in a patch and some changes may seem to come along slowly, but that’s the nature of this process, please bear with it.

Just giving my opinions on the new changes is all, not upset or anything over here :). I do have faith you guys can get it right.

[acQu]

I find the pickup-objectives actually quite enjoyable. Seems funny and contradicting and different and noone likes to pick them up running around I made my experiments today on Camden and think it is quite nice to lay it down in some hidden corner if you sense danger. Don’t know, but offers some unexpected variety in my eyes.

[Valdez]

I find the pickup-objectives actually quite enjoyable. Seems funny and contradicting and different and noone likes to pick them up running around I made my experiments today on Camden and think it is quite nice to lay it down in some hidden corner if you sense danger. Don’t know, but offers some unexpected variety in my eyes.

Yeah and how do you like attempting to pick up the objectives on london bridge?

[acQu]

Didn’t try yet On London Bridge it is a bit different compared to Camden. Don’t know how much i am allowed to speak of Camden, but there are differences to the way you approach the objective. In LB i would attribute that to the linear map layout, there is really not many ways out, it’s a trap sort of. Whitechapel is similar. Both are horrible spots in general i think, which is due to maplayout ?

[INF3RN0]

Pickup time is a great mechanic, however the map layouts currently fail to make them work like they should. The pickup and transmit points should be two separate areas of interest and accessible by the defense like wise; as it was in the previous games. LB the objective room is too close to the defensive spawn and the transmit point is too offensively biased. WC is the same exact thing. Pickup time is there to prevent lemmings from running in and just grabbing it (mostly on WC), and transmit times only really work the way they should on Camden. The map layouts are the problem here, not the mechanics- so we should really get that addressed asap.

[Nail]

acQu, camden is in regular rotation now

[ImageOmega]

Pickup time is a great mechanic, however the map layouts currently fail to make them work like they should. The pickup and transmit points should be two separate areas of interest and accessible by the defense like wise; as it was in the previous games. LB the objective room is too close to the defensive spawn and the transmit point is too offensively biased. WC is the same exact thing. Pickup time is there to prevent lemmings from running in and just grabbing it (mostly on WC), and transmit times only really work the way they should on Camden. The map layouts are the problem here, not the mechanics- so we should really get that addressed asap.

But, how exactly are you proposing to fix the maps? The way I look at these pickup and deliver objectives is in the same light as Capture the Flag. Except there is only one team doing the capturing and one team defending. The flag is in the Defense’s base and your job is to bust your way in, nab the objective, and fight your way back out to your base. It is in likening it to CTF that I really think it paints the picture of how silly it is to have to “Interact” with the objectives. At the very least, if interaction is necessary, then it should be just hitting a key when near the object without the progress bar (in other words an instant pickup or deliver). But, I do agree that the object should still be returnable by the defense, just like a flag would be in CTF.

Based on what you’re saying would you propose that both teams spawn at some midpoint between both the objective and return point? I think this would bring up other issues like spawns being too close to one another or fire fights occurring on the way to the objective instead of an actual defense versus offense mentality. Also, as defense you’d probably want someone sticking around to pick off players spawning in (especially since there are no spawn waves).

[Mustang]

Almost perfect. Its perfect when the scoreboard doesnt show the enemy’s classes.

Ah yes, good catch, I concur.

Additional I’d suggest either changing the bottom section to showing the description and value the other way around, i.e. “Kills 5” instead of “5 Kills”, or doing something (different background colours? large segregating borders?) to make reading this info a bit easier.

At the end game stats I would like to see the kills the guy with most kills had, or what accuracy the most accurate guy had. Also would it be a nice thing if I can see my own accuracy.

Definitely would like to see my own accuracy somewhere, if not on scoreboard, then at endgame.

[Violator]

I like the new patch so far, some nice changes here and there to the maps, good to see my idea of the back garage exit implemented on WC though it was still tough to get the EV to the church (on time). MG seemed to have less recoil which was nice but didn’t seem to do quite as much damage, which ties in with the release notes but not to what Anti & Toomic were saying so a bit confused they did say it had a higher ROF though which I’m not sure it needed as it was pretty beefy to begin with. Soldier does seem the dominant class atm.

Soldiers arming C4 was an interesting change, but it did leave no-one playing engineer most of the time unfortunately. Please fix the sprint shotgun bug ;).

New scoreboard is nice with more emphasis on XP (ie teamwork) than kills, and good that I’m one level more than Toomic :D.

[Toomic]

“and good that I’m one level more than Toomic.”

I’ll catch up to you when you hit the max level :stroggtapir:

[Mustang]

I LOL’d at the My Fair Lady reference.

[INF3RN0]

[QUOTE=ImageOmega;435013]
Based on what you’re saying would you propose that both teams spawn at some midpoint between both the objective and return point? I think this would bring up other issues like spawns being too close to one another or fire fights occurring on the way to the objective instead of an actual defense versus offense mentality. Also, as defense you’d probably want someone sticking around to pick off players spawning in (especially since there are no spawn waves).[/QUOTE]

These objectives were immensely successful in ETQW and had a completely unique dynamic. They already exist in that form, so I was very surprised they are implemented so awkwardly in DB. Here’s the basic layout of a few of the data run layouts to give you a visual. It’s a very simple and logical geometric layout, and I believe in most cases the defense was slightly closer to both points, but they also had the longer spawn.

[Ashog]

[QUOTE=Anti;434860]
Assault class is getting played considerably less than most other classes right now, that is why we’re trying C4 on the Assault for a bit to see how things change.[/QUOTE]
+1 for that!
Now soldier has purpose other than being a meat brute who just runs in, kills two and dies, rinse, repeat. I also felt it has been played less abd less, especially due to skewing of distribution to fieldops.

Just give engineer one more gadget! Figure out something, e.g. armor buffing ot smth mechanical to place - small radars or something.

[nailzor]

[QUOTE=Anti;434860]
Assault class is getting played considerably less than most other classes right now, that is why we’re trying C4 on the Assault for a bit to see how things change.[/QUOTE]

Assault class will obviously have more play time because of this change, unsure what kind of useful knowledge will be gained by statistics.

Imagine the complicatedness of a pub player who wants to just focus on objectives on escort maps. On offense London Bridge a player wants to primarily focus on objectives, so they go Engineer. Repair EV and get to the first barricade, oh crap the barrier was built… change to Assault and suicide or wait to die so you can plant c4.

Plant c4 and EV is now damaged, go back to engineer to repair EV. Rinse and repeat.

Also if you think of offense and defense sides of the ball with this modified game mechanic.

Defense: You will not need an Assault on defense in the current state of things. But you would want to have an Engineer for c4 defusing.

Offense:
London Bridge: You will need both an Engineer and Assault for London Bridge through most of the map.
Waterloo: You will need an Assault for the first and last phase, but not in the at all middle.
White Chapel: Never need Assault.
Camden: Assault only needed for 3rd and 5th phases.

So, will we see more Assault? Yes, because it has to be played. Will we see it equally on offense and defense both? Nope - it is not necessary at all times.

Make the Assault class a huge heavy hitter that needs a medic as support and it will be played. AKA: Just speed up his movement a bit and it is good to go! More guns, moar guns!

How much Covert is actually played? Not much, more of just an annoying class currently as there are only a few spots on maps that it is useful (Camden/White Chapel). If you want more people to play the Covert class, make maps have truly sniper designed phases. (ie: RTCW mp_beach first phase and mp_assault entire map, Halo: Blood Gulch, BF3: Operation Metro.

Make the class fun to play and people will play it

[Tast1c]

[QUOTE=nailzor;435099]Assault class will obviously have more play time because of this change, unsure what kind of useful knowledge will be gained by statistics.
…
So, will we see more Assault? Yes, because it has to be played. Will we see it equally on offense and defense both? Nope - it is not necessary at all times.
…
More guns, moar guns!
…
Make the class fun to play and people will play it :-)[/QUOTE]

Assault class can be really powerful, but personally i just like being medic, fops, engineer more. Medic and Fops: Because of the guns, i prefer them over the assault mg’s and ofc ability to heal/refill ammo/ artillery) and i like engy to help the team on the objective level. Actually the secondary of assault can be more powerful than the primary and it covers more range. Also a good Fops can handle situations better with his assault rifle than the assault. He is only strong in close quarter and mid range. I would prefer having more like a assault rifle type of weapon for assault, the mg is fine but the smg primary, i dont really like it. Doesnt feel as good as medic weapon or fops.

Im looking forward to the point when weapons are finally balanced, then we can say things for sure, because now we always complain about each build.

Since im not a good sniper i dont like the covert much, despite its secondary is ridiculously good. When things speeding up and getting hectic, sniper is my last choice. And when i play it, im almost quickscoping each shot -> i stay on shift because im sprinting anyways -> abrakadabra the hold breath mechanic vanished ;D I hope my message is clear enough^^